45th President Of The United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 14)

[Speed 3]

There's an interesting segment on TRIP US podcast on Friday discussing the "blocs" of votes traditionally chased. As the US ages (in existence terms, not population) the thinking of groups traditionally thrown together - Black/Brown/Hispanic are unsurprisingly more nuanced than being a "bloc". More interestingly the generations think very differently. The second and third generation kids of immigrants think more like white folks that have been there several more decades. As we're seeing all over the world, Populists appeal to the young way more than the establishment. Killer fact they quoted - a US hispanic turns 18 every 30 seconds.

I think this illustrates why old/white/male/educated/foreigners/whatever^ find the polls baffling but they do carry weight.


^ delete as appropriate to you

[PinkHouse]

CambsBill said:

PinkHouse said:

Trump has been better fiscally and on issues of national and international security than Biden and in summary the country was a much better place under his leadership than the current admin. The voters get to decide later this year so all we have to do is wait and see which way they prefer

Fiscally? He increased the US national debt by 8 TRILLION Dollars, having promised before the 2016 election that he'd reduce the debt. That's a 40% increase in the gross national debt in a single term. Can the USA afford for him to be president again?

But conversely every single stock market index fund had a bigger % rise under Trump than Biden, so businesses were doing better. Inflation also rose much higher under Biden than Trump, so everyday consumers were also doing better.

[Mortarboard]

PinkHouse said:

CambsBill said:

PinkHouse said:

Trump has been better fiscally and on issues of national and international security than Biden and in summary the country was a much better place under his leadership than the current admin. The voters get to decide later this year so all we have to do is wait and see which way they prefer

Fiscally? He increased the US national debt by 8 TRILLION Dollars, having promised before the 2016 election that he'd reduce the debt. That's a 40% increase in the gross national debt in a single term. Can the USA afford for him to be president again?

But conversely every single stock market index fund had a bigger % rise under Trump than Biden, so businesses were doing better. Inflation also rose much higher under Biden than Trump, so everyday consumers were also doing better.

Equally though, trump benefitted from the tail end of the Obama improvements, and Biden inherited the post-covid financial headache.

M.

[paulguitar]

PinkHouse said:

But conversely every single stock market index fund had a bigger % rise under Trump than Biden, so businesses were doing better. Inflation also rose much higher under Biden than Trump, so everyday consumers were also doing better.

This is exactly the point I was making about context though. By themselves, these stats can be misleading. I could point out that trump lost more jobs than any president in history, but without context that's not very helpful.


Also to quite a large extent, I suspect that many economic ebbs and flows are cyclical, and not affected all that much by who is president. In many ways, a president should be a respectable figurehead with an experienced and solid team behind him. trump is a man with significant mental illness in the form of personality disorders, he's getting more out to lunch by the day, and he intends to put in a team of lackeys.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Despite thinking that someone living in London/West Sussex, as our pink friend appears to, having a favourable view of Trump is pretty bizarre, I do commend him for sticking around and arguing his case.

[thegreenhell]

No economy operates in a vacuum. Despite what some Americans might think, their economy is affected by global influences, and the policies of individual presidents are reacting to those global influences, especially when there are pandemics and wars during one term and not others. Only a simpleton judges a leader of any country based only on the headline figures without looking at the wider context.

[paulguitar]

I'm back in the UK today, having been in the US for a while.


I saw two visible political statements. One was a house with a 'loony tunes' flag of Biden, like this:







The other was a car driving around from car park to car park, playing loud 'patriotic' music and looking like this.






Aside from that, I didn't see any yard signs or flags. This was in Connecticut.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

paulguitar said:

... The other was a car driving around from car park to car park, playing loud 'patriotic' music and looking like this.




Aside from that, I didn't see any yard signs or flags. This was in Connecticut.

Definitely one for the Council thread.

[ScotHill]

dukeboy749r said:

PinkHouse said:

Unfortunately seems to be that way. As soon as I post the indisputable facts that Trump is ahead in recent election and battleground polls, I get accused of the grave sin of having a 5 year old account which is baffling as I didn't realise that was somehow an insult. I can see why most others have stopped engaging as you can't really have any good discourse here so it's utterly pointless.

You really love teasing...

What's your stage name?

I'd have thought PinkHouse was already a pretty good name for a stripper?

[Mortarboard]

No flags here (yet), but I did see a Nikki Haley bumper sticker the other day.

M.

[InformationSuperHighway]

Mortarboard said:

No flags here (yet), but I did see a Nikki Haley bumper sticker the other day.

M.

Couple of Trump flags have started to appear here (South Orange County, CA) but probably 10% of the volume of them we saw in 2020.

I put it down to it being more controversial than ever to support Trump (But they still do) and lots of people not supporting him any more.

I see the occasional Biden bumper sticker.

[CambsBill]

PinkHouse said:

CambsBill said:

PinkHouse said:

Trump has been better fiscally and on issues of national and international security than Biden and in summary the country was a much better place under his leadership than the current admin. The voters get to decide later this year so all we have to do is wait and see which way they prefer

Fiscally? He increased the US national debt by 8 TRILLION Dollars, having promised before the 2016 election that he'd reduce the debt. That's a 40% increase in the gross national debt in a single term. Can the USA afford for him to be president again?

But conversely every single stock market index fund had a bigger % rise under Trump than Biden, so businesses were doing better. Inflation also rose much higher under Biden than Trump, so everyday consumers were also doing better.

Two minutes of searching shows that to be untrue though - the S&P 500 is showing a higher gain under Biden than under Trump, & the Dow Jones is pretty much even Stevens. Both lag noticeably behind Obama.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2482/sp500-performance...

https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-perf...

As others have already pointed out, Presidents have relatively little influence over inflation (or is Biden to blame for the inflation in UK, EU & everywhere else it rose in parallel?).

[LF5335]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Despite thinking that someone living in London/West Sussex, as our pink friend appears to, having a favourable view of Trump is pretty bizarre, I do commend him for sticking around and arguing his case.

I’m not sure he is arguing his case though. He’s avoiding answering any question directly and just coming out with vague responses, such as “I admire some of his personality traits”, but when pressed to explain, he wafts it away with a “what’s the point?” style reply. The comment around the war and international relations as a whole is ridiculously poor. He somehow is arguing that Trump,will play world peacemaker. This is the guy who encouraged Russia to attack US allies, who wants to hand over Ukraine to Russian, the guy who sells highly classified US national security info to the highest bidder.

He can’t be taken seriously and is just another bot, or “Own the libtards” right wing hardman.

[Mortarboard]

All lot of it is down to "the feelz" rather than reality though.

The debate this week gives biden an opportunity to rectify that, as no matter what his talking point actually is, trump always claims it was "better" under him. Or so "many people say", etc.

M.

[InformationSuperHighway]

LF5335 said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Despite thinking that someone living in London/West Sussex, as our pink friend appears to, having a favourable view of Trump is pretty bizarre, I do commend him for sticking around and arguing his case.

I’m not sure he is arguing his case though. He’s avoiding answering any question directly and just coming out with vague responses, such as “I admire some of his personality traits”, but when pressed to explain, he wafts it away with a “what’s the point?” style reply. The comment around the war and international relations as a whole is ridiculously poor. He somehow is arguing that Trump,will play world peacemaker. This is the guy who encouraged Russia to attack US allies, who wants to hand over Ukraine to Russian, the guy who sells highly classified US national security info to the highest bidder.

He can’t be taken seriously and is just another bot, or “Own the libtards” right wing hardman.

My read as well. Also statements are rarely backed up with actual facts / links.

Troll being a troll.

[dobbo_]

Thing is, you can explain it to someone, but you can't understand it for them.

As I said the other day:

A majority of Americans believe they are in a recession, when in fact economic growth is strong.

They also believe crime is rising, when in fact it is falling.

They believe Biden is senile, and Trump is a great orator.

Three reasons.

The media. I won't repeat myself again on that.
Some people are fking morons.
The Dems messaging is horrifically bad.

Would better messaging reach the morons? I'll bet that it wouldn't. I'll paint my house pink if I lose.

Honestly coming in and going "the economy was better under trump" and then expecting to be taken seriously. Unreal. See second reason above.

[NRS]

CambsBill said:

Fiscally? He increased the US national debt by 8 TRILLION Dollars, having promised before the 2016 election that he'd reduce the debt. That's a 40% increase in the gross national debt in a single term. Can the USA afford for him to be president again?

Covid?

Biden’s also on course to beat that despite the Covid spending. It’s part of Bidenonomics, use government money to onshore jobs, improve infrastructure and hope the growth pays back the investment. It’s not clear it will so far.

Strangely Brown said:

PinkHouse said:

cayman-black said:

Pink this is the anti Trump thread so dont waste your time here.

Unfortunately seems to be that way. As soon as I post the indisputable facts that Trump is ahead in recent election and battleground polls...

But it's not indisputable. The very fact that your claim has been rebutted and an explanation given proves that. Do you have anything else to support your claim or are you relying only on a single source? You can get all huffy and flounce off if you wish but argument by assertion is not going to produce a worthwhile discussion.

It’s stuff like arguing the polls are biased just to get clicks on stories by the media, then suddenly when Biden is ahead it’s evidence of Biden’s victory. It’s stuff like this that is the issue here. It’s just an echo chamber, and that comes from someone who detests Trump.

CambsBill said:

Two minutes of searching shows that to be untrue though - the S&P 500 is showing a higher gain under Biden than under Trump, & the Dow Jones is pretty much even Stevens. Both lag noticeably behind Obama.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2482/sp500-performance...

https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-perf...

As others have already pointed out, Presidents have relatively little influence over inflation (or is Biden to blame for the inflation in UK, EU & everywhere else it rose in parallel?).

Context again matters though, Europe and the UK have suffered a lot of extra inflation because of the US though. Most stuff is priced in $, and so a strong USD makes it more expensive for others. The US was able to lift interest rates quickly and (relatively) high so fast as so many mortgages are long term ones so it didn’t hit their own people as hard. In Europe we tend to have more short term ones, so struggled to lift our rates as much, meaning our currencies got weaker against the $ and so we had higher inflation to buy goods. The reaction to Covid probably created a lot of issues too. There doesn’t seem much agreement as to how much is Biden’s stuff versus others.

[dobbo_]

NRS said:

CambsBill said:

Fiscally? He increased the US national debt by 8 TRILLION Dollars, having promised before the 2016 election that he'd reduce the debt. That's a 40% increase in the gross national debt in a single term. Can the USA afford for him to be president again?

Covid?

No, not Covid.

Can you back that up at all with any proof?

[Mortarboard]

Au contraire.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/business/...

Deficit going up is not the same as "president added to the debt"

It's the GOP you mightvwant a word with, if the deficit is a concern

M.

[Al Gorithum]

PinkHouse said:

paulguitar said:

Al Gorithum said:

paulguitar said:

What is it about trump that you like?

To be fair, I know quite a few people who like Trump. They're all thick. Every single one of them.

Well, hopefully, CB will not be thick and will make a case for trump.

I also know a few people that like trump and they're all incredibly intelligent. The thing with anecdotes is that they are essentially meaningless in arguments, this includes my own personal anecdote in the previous sentence

Obviously we can’t verify your people so can you point to anyone in the public domain who is both a Trump supporter and “incredibly intelligent”?