Your Voting Intentions Part 2.0 (End Is Nigh)
Poll: Your Voting Intentions Part 2.0 (End Is Nigh)
Total Members Polled: 713
Discussion
fatbutt said:
LimmerickLad said:
fatbutt said:
Do those intending on voting for Reform know it's a company and not a political party? Farage is the majority shareholder and chair. It's not in the slightest bit democratic.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ref...
Yes...and?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ref...
Companies operated for profit. They also are democratically constructed so that the leader is elected and policies are agreed. If any of their representatives get to be MPs their sole role in parliament will be to do what Farage tells them to do i.e. progress his business interests. It's about as undemocratic as you can think.
We elect representatives to parliament - the winning party (with the majority of representatives) form a Government to run UK PLC for the benefit of country and citizens
I've not seen a whole lot of competence from the current Government in UK or the devolved administrations in terms of either running UK PLC but over the past few years I've seen a lot of "what can we get out of it for ourselves without getting caught with our fingers in the cookie jar" as well as "how can I position myself for a lucrative post politics career after I've avoided getting caught but are no longer an MP"
I'm not voting for Reform but the whole aspect of running UK PLC seems like it does need a level of "reform"
It would be interesting to get the top 5-10 or so concerns of non-voters and ballot-spoilers and create a party based around the common themes.
I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
Edited by bmwmike on Thursday 20th June 13:35
jshell said:
LimmerickLad said:
P-Jay said:
Honest question for the Reform voters.
Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
Can't speak for others but I'm hoping eventually it will lead to a complete Reform of the entire political system of 2 party politics but not holding my breath.Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
I'm prepared for the terrible pain of pulling the whole edifice down and restarting with new rules; proper salary for MP's, no 2nd jobs, no paid lobbying, term limits. Yes, I know it'll never happen, but with the existing system it'll NEVER happen.
They are Robber Barrons.
I agree though, especially on the Tory side of the big two, some seriously shady types with plenty of ulterior motives get put in positions of power without merit.
I have a lot of serious doubts about Sunak. his rise to power was meteoric. He goes from no political experience to being dropped into one of the safest Tory seats in the UK, 3 years later he's in the cabinet, another 2 and he's Chancellor, 2 more and he's PM.
bmwmike said:
It would be interesting to get the top 5-10 or so concerns of non-voters and ballot-spoilers and create a party based around the common themes.
I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
The Swiss already have a solution for this, their system provides for both elected representatives as well as direct referendums on things.I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_Switzerlan...
CraigyMc said:
bmwmike said:
It would be interesting to get the top 5-10 or so concerns of non-voters and ballot-spoilers and create a party based around the common themes.
I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
The Swiss already have a solution for this, their system provides for both elected representatives as well as direct referendums on things.I mean, the system currently presents a menu and people choose what they want from that fixed list. That seems old fashioned, like having only four channels or whatever, whereas these days we can stream/on-demand and even roll your own (youtube/TT etc). Dunno but seems there must be a better way of asking the electorate what they want, rather than presenting what oft vested interests think they can get away with.
Maybe i'm talking about PR. Not sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_Switzerlan...
The last one was as a result of politicians not doing what they were paid to do (make decisions)
They abdicated their responsibility to the electorate to decide
They then got really f
king pissy when the campaign to get the electorate to vote the way they wanted us too didn't go the way they wantedThen the wrong result came back and a vast majority of them wanted to reverse the result or ask the question again in a different way to get the right answer
This pissed off a load more of the electorate (even some of the people that had given the right answer and didn't agree with the result but could accept that a majority had decided)
They (the politicians) then f
ked about for years trying to decide on how best to implement (or not) the answer that they didn't want before finally when the public had had enough of their st gave a party a stupidly large majority on the basis that they would crack on and get this st sorted (of course that worked out so well too)Yeah Referendums are f
ked for the UK for a generation or two **Please note a Generation or two is the English definition not a Scottish one - apparently they are different ;-)
P-Jay said:
jshell said:
LimmerickLad said:
P-Jay said:
Honest question for the Reform voters.
Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
Can't speak for others but I'm hoping eventually it will lead to a complete Reform of the entire political system of 2 party politics but not holding my breath.Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
I'm prepared for the terrible pain of pulling the whole edifice down and restarting with new rules; proper salary for MP's, no 2nd jobs, no paid lobbying, term limits. Yes, I know it'll never happen, but with the existing system it'll NEVER happen.
They are Robber Barrons.
I agree though, especially on the Tory side of the big two, some seriously shady types with plenty of ulterior motives get put in positions of power without merit.
I have a lot of serious doubts about Sunak. his rise to power was meteoric. He goes from no political experience to being dropped into one of the safest Tory seats in the UK, 3 years later he's in the cabinet, another 2 and he's Chancellor, 2 more and he's PM.
ts angers me. There's no pretence of serving genuine public interest anymore.So, yes, despicable as he is, I'd consider Farage. That's what is happening in many parts of the world from the US to the EU. Problem is the right of centre parties are always attacked, but no-one and I mean no-one asks 'why are they gaining votes?'. SImple question, and should guide any narrative.
Sunak was the chosen PM. They had to carve out the previous and democratically elected PM's to appoint Sunak - of that I'm sure. Maybe I'm more cynical than most, but there is an Establishment that never changes, where the majority of soft power lies, and they don't like outliers messing up the normal order of things. Just watching the hysterical attacks on Farage in social media is quite incredible - it reminds me of the Trump thread here on PH which is just an exercise in obsessive behaviour, rightly or wrongly.
It's so depressing, and up here we have the added complication of the SNP which some people are now considering to be a possible protest vote!!!
jshell said:
Problem is the right of centre parties are always attacked, but no-one and I mean no-one asks 'why are they gaining votes?'. SImple question, and should guide any narrative.
This question is asked almost daily on PH, and the answer is simple : They offer a very simple answer to a very complex problem, and play to the baser instincts of a sizeable minority of the electorate who have little understanding of the complexities being discussed.tangerine_sedge said:
jshell said:
Problem is the right of centre parties are always attacked, but no-one and I mean no-one asks 'why are they gaining votes?'. SImple question, and should guide any narrative.
This question is asked almost daily on PH, and the answer is simple : They offer a very simple answer to a very complex problem, and play to the baser instincts of a sizeable minority of the electorate who have little understanding of the complexities being discussed.Lotobear said:
tangerine_sedge said:
jshell said:
Problem is the right of centre parties are always attacked, but no-one and I mean no-one asks 'why are they gaining votes?'. SImple question, and should guide any narrative.
This question is asked almost daily on PH, and the answer is simple : They offer a very simple answer to a very complex problem, and play to the baser instincts of a sizeable minority of the electorate who have little understanding of the complexities being discussed.Seem to recall my last year in junior school, 11 plus year, so not exactly recent due to being an old fart. One kid in the class, Chris Ramsey, no not that one, the class rich family, had been to USA and election held during their trip. There was a class show and tell, no memory or knowledge what sort of election it was but recall there was a voting paper passed round.
Massive thing, imagine two sheets of foolscap, not just a list of candidates, but lots of sub categories, a bit like mini referendums. Remember there was one vote on whether dogs should be on leads in public.
Does this happen still? Elsewhere? Is it a better way of getting public engagement?
Massive thing, imagine two sheets of foolscap, not just a list of candidates, but lots of sub categories, a bit like mini referendums. Remember there was one vote on whether dogs should be on leads in public.
Does this happen still? Elsewhere? Is it a better way of getting public engagement?
Lotobear said:
This sort of response is a perfect encapsulation of why we are where we are
Ah cmon, acknowledging nevermind trying to actually address some of the underlying issues that are causing that shift in support to extreme elements is far harder than just damning everyone for doing so as a 'bad' person so it should hardly be a surprise the latter option is regularly wheeled out.....Lotobear said:
tangerine_sedge said:
jshell said:
Problem is the right of centre parties are always attacked, but no-one and I mean no-one asks 'why are they gaining votes?'. SImple question, and should guide any narrative.
This question is asked almost daily on PH, and the answer is simple : They offer a very simple answer to a very complex problem, and play to the baser instincts of a sizeable minority of the electorate who have little understanding of the complexities being discussed.Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Labour?
No, reform. #takebackcontrolthistime
What exactly are you expecting to take back control of?
Newc said:
Came out as 'Truly independant'P-Jay said:
Honest question for the Reform voters.
Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
It's a bit like the brexit vote. No one will admit to planning to vote brexit but the majority did... Are you voting for them because you want a government lead by Nigel Farage, because the Tories are a complete mess, or something else?
Watch this space.
Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Labour?
No, reform. #takebackcontrolthistimeWhat exactly are you expecting to take back control of?
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 19th June 21:00
Kermit power said:
Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Killboy said:
MC Bodge said:
Labour?
No, reform. #takebackcontrolthistimeWhat exactly are you expecting to take back control of?
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 19th June 21:00
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