Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 5
Discussion
Pistom said:
So what that means is - we'll start peace talks if you accept we've got part of Ukraine - that's how peace talks start but the other side needs to come back with a counter offer that at least gives the opponent something even if it's nothing of what Russia is asking for.
So they've said, we'll talk if you give us parts of Ukraine. What have Ukraine offered instead of that?
It seems to be - we're not giving you that.
Isn't that just going to extend the war?
Both sides need to start somewhere.
How about when Russia surrender unconditionally?So they've said, we'll talk if you give us parts of Ukraine. What have Ukraine offered instead of that?
It seems to be - we're not giving you that.
Isn't that just going to extend the war?
Both sides need to start somewhere.
That would be a start.
paulrockliffe said:
200bhp said:
Interesting reading about the Crimea beach incident - The story seems to be that one of the ATACMS was shot down over the beach, releasing its cluster munitions onto the beach below.
Somehow the Russians twist this to be "Ukrainians with American missiles deliberately attack people on the beach"
If only they'd let it continue to its intended destination, it wouldn't have released it's cluster munitions onto the beach.
In this case was the intended target not the AD kit that was sat on top of the cliffs above the beach? There's a picture doing the rounds that show a launcher sat pretty much on the edge of the cliff, but I haven't checked that it relates exactly to this incident.Somehow the Russians twist this to be "Ukrainians with American missiles deliberately attack people on the beach"
If only they'd let it continue to its intended destination, it wouldn't have released it's cluster munitions onto the beach.
You have to be pretty thick to go bathing underneath an AD launcher in Crimea, but then you have to be pretty thick to be holidaying in Crimea in the first place I suppose.
There was a space tracking radar that got flattened last night to0.
Iamnotkloot said:
No one wants Russian children to die but the families were taking a big risk holidaying in a war zone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
Bad parenting that! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
Oilchange said:
How about when Russia surrender unconditionally?
That would be a start.
I suspect words like "surrender" might not work.That would be a start.
"withdraw" would be a better start point.
But even that won't work... There is too much face to be lost now, by someone who only has that to fall back on...
Shar2 said:
200bhp said:
Interesting reading about the Crimea beach incident - The story seems to be that one of the ATACMS was shot down over the beach, releasing its cluster munitions onto the beach below.
Somehow the Russians twist this to be "Ukrainians with American missiles deliberately attack people on the beach"
If only they'd let it continue to its intended destination, it wouldn't have released it's cluster munitions onto the beach.
But it's ok for the ruzzians to use bombs, rockets, missiles and shells to destroy hopsitals, schools, homes, and power infrastructure etc. F-ing hypocrites.Somehow the Russians twist this to be "Ukrainians with American missiles deliberately attack people on the beach"
If only they'd let it continue to its intended destination, it wouldn't have released it's cluster munitions onto the beach.
paulw123 said:
Iamnotkloot said:
No one wants Russian children to die but the families were taking a big risk holidaying in a war zone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
Bad parenting that! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
RemarkLima said:
paulw123 said:
Iamnotkloot said:
No one wants Russian children to die but the families were taking a big risk holidaying in a war zone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
Bad parenting that! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/23/...
AdeTuono said:
spikeyhead said:
Adam. said:
isaldiri said:
Stupid or not, if say Cuba was firing russian supplied missiles at Florida, do you really think the US wouldn't be blaming the russians for the attacks?
Very fair point
spookly said:
AdeTuono said:
spikeyhead said:
Adam. said:
isaldiri said:
Stupid or not, if say Cuba was firing russian supplied missiles at Florida, do you really think the US wouldn't be blaming the russians for the attacks?
Very fair pointisaldiri said:
Stupid or not, if say Cuba was firing russian supplied missiles at Florida, do you really think the US wouldn't be blaming the russians for the attacks?
As in Vietnam I'd imagine the last thing they'd want would be to openly blame Russia becaise they don't want a war with Russia.Russia are only blaming America because they don't want to admit to their own people that little Ukraine is holding it own in a war against mighty Russia.
king arthur said:
I believe Vietnam have had visits from Xi and Biden in the last year as well as Putin obviously more recently. Clearly everyone wants a bit of the action.... Chimune said:
Was musing the other day. Best and easiet off ramp for putrid is trump winning.
They have a meeting. Putrid pulls out saying he can work with djt plus USA wont be sending any more kit and will finish Ukrainian naziz off with 'sanctions'.
Trump wins huge pr in 1st week - told you id stop ww3 rubbish. Putrid gets to withdraw without swinging from lampost. Both go back home to focus on the critical task of staying in power.
World gives sigh of relief and moves on.
There is no deal, or compromise.They have a meeting. Putrid pulls out saying he can work with djt plus USA wont be sending any more kit and will finish Ukrainian naziz off with 'sanctions'.
Trump wins huge pr in 1st week - told you id stop ww3 rubbish. Putrid gets to withdraw without swinging from lampost. Both go back home to focus on the critical task of staying in power.
World gives sigh of relief and moves on.
Understand this, if you and 1000 of your associates have stolen money from people to enrich yourself and those around you over the last 20 years starting a war with what you hoped was going to be a soft target would distract people from asking you about basic stuff.
Anyone who has been working in Russia knows that they are not stupid or somehow a puppet of the west. Yes if a useful idiot suggests privatizing a state asset, then yes they will do that. This idea (a Russian one) that the west is to blame for Russia's corruption in the 1990s and Putins enrichment is all because of the west. That is utter horse s
t, it has been the other direction. Russia has exported corruption, to places like Geneva, London, Paris and beyond. They are not shy about doing this either, they will openly bribe officials, MPs, lawyers, bankers to help funnel this out of Russia. What you see is a crook who knows that if people genuinely stop and look at where the money has gone, him and his company will be strung up by the people they have been stealing from.
Painting this war as some imperial rescue or a dictator who is being pressured by European expansion, Nato, Nazis, Jews, Arabs or homosexuals doesn't hold water even in Russia itself.
Look at the murdered Sergei Magnitsky, Navalney or the countless other political prisoners who have shone a light on this within Russia.
On a more closer to home example in Britain you have Mr Farage, a man who has done unimaginable damage to the economy of Britain. Does he really want to live in Clacton and improve the town he represents? These are not people who want to build schools, hospitals, sewerage, energy or infrastructure. Well they will if their investors are helped and its scary to see how unaccountable someone like Farage is at the moment. Like Putin he needs a distraction to point to instead of people asking where the money is?
In the end greed is what this is all about and it is poignant that the Magnitsky Act to freeze their assets and stop them financially is what hurts Russia the most. If they want to spend their money in Russia this has no power. Where is the 40% of Russias GDP over the last 20 years, in houses in Knightsbridge, Geneva and yachts of people associated with those in power.
The report into russian influence in the UK confirmed what many already suspected but little govt action has resulted, the money talked. It will be interesting to see if the new govt will publish the more salacious bits of the report about russian influence peddling or pass law to prevent a repeat.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Tuesday 25th June 17:44
Ukraine blew up one of Russias 4 Space tracking centres. Russia in real danger of losing its space program. Likely that if you want a Satelite launch you'll need to take your money to Europe or America:
https://youtu.be/QZvyWiYuatE?si=kTyBh8Vfe_3xfSyc
https://youtu.be/QZvyWiYuatE?si=kTyBh8Vfe_3xfSyc
Oliver Hardy said:
Interesting, thanks for posting.If enough things that go Bang are supplied with the F16s it really could be a game changer.
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