Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[andymadmak]

Mortarboard said:

Top three in the campaign are Irish. Main thrust of it is "the adults will be back in charge"

No implications of "rolling over" that I could see

M.

OK, we see things differently...
Anyway an article that lays all the credit for the GFA at Tony Blair's/Labours door (side mention for Bertie) is reaching for it a bit imho.

[Mortarboard]

Murph7355 said:

Mortarboard said:

Stopped shipping GSK's critical materials through the uk in 2015, making the brexit effects stretching back 9 years, but who's counting, eh?



M.

Eta- yes, before the official announcement

Why? Presumably it was beneficial anyway?

Their main logistics is in the uk. (At least forcthe stuff we supplied them) Then brexit put into play the possibility of delays, which made a potential arse of all that. So they rerouted.

M.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

Sorry but this informed honest person very much blames brexit for current levels of immigration. Many brexiters did not like FMOL but favoured a system controlled by the UK government. I posted many times this was a mistake FOML was a market based immigration system so get a job or leave. A government based system was bound to be a disaster. Guess what I was right

The EU's migration policies are govt controlled.

Unless you are noting they have FOML globally now?

[Murph7355]

Killboy said:

Let me know when that accountability solves anything.

Next go seems to be 4th July.

And if that doesn't work I believe the one after will be on or before August 2029.

[Mortarboard]

andymadmak said:

OK, we see things differently...
Anyway an article that lays all the credit for the GFA at Tony Blair's/Labours door (side mention for Bertie) is reaching for it a bit imho.

Agreed. Mo Mowlam (RIP) did more than the rest of them put together, imo.
But at least with with a large majority, the minor NI parries won't be the "tail wagging the dog" any more

M.

[don'tbesilly]

Mortarboard said:

Try to use link that aren't from mick o'keefe in future

Tent city gone. Asylum seekers housed. Considering ireland received approximately the same number of asylum seekers as the UK did in 2022, it seems to be doing just fine, on 10% of the population.

And able to deport without too much issue.

Phunny Dat.

M.

I’ll use any links from Twitter that I choose to, I guess you don’t like to see what’s going on at home

The tweets posted were dated 26th June, have you got anything to verify tent city has gone, it looks like it’s just moved elsewhere.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzwT5NCRZlY

Phunny Dat

[Murph7355]

Mortarboard said:

There's only two options on asylum seekers:
1. Go it alone, and deal with each and every one that arrives on your shores and airports
2. Share the "burden" with your neighbours

The EU appears to be trying out the shared burden model.

Uk needs to decide what it wants to do. "Blame the eu" won't do much.

M.

How's it working out M?

Is VdL still looking at/favouring a Rwanda style solution too?

[Mortarboard]

Murph7355 said:

How's it working out M?

Is VdL still looking at/favouring a Rwanda style solution too?

It's currently getting it's mechanics worked out as well you know, otherwise cramked would be quoting numbers

M.

[Mortarboard]

don'tbesilly said:

I’ll use any links from Twitter that I choose to, I guess you don’t like to see what’s going on at home

The tweets posted were dated 26th June, have you got anything to verify tent city has gone, it looks like it’s just moved elsewhere.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzwT5NCRZlY

Phunny Dat

Bless. Count 'em.

Less than a barge worth

O'keefe is widely accepted as a gobste. Like many places, there's plenty of xenophobes posting online.....

M.

[Murph7355]

Mortarboard said:

Their main logistics is in the uk. (At least forcthe stuff we supplied them) Then brexit put into play the possibility of delays, which made a potential arse of all that. So they rerouted.

M.

Good job the decision went against what most felt likely. Would surely have looked a bit daft had the vote gone Remain's way.

If only our own govt had decided to prepare contingency plans that far ahead....

Mortarboard said:

It's currently getting it's mechanics worked out as well you know, otherwise cramked would be quoting numbers

M.

OK. How are the mechanics going?

[don'tbesilly]

Murph7355 said:

Mortarboard said:

There's only two options on asylum seekers:
1. Go it alone, and deal with each and every one that arrives on your shores and airports
2. Share the "burden" with your neighbours

The EU appears to be trying out the shared burden model.

Uk needs to decide what it wants to do. "Blame the eu" won't do much.

M.

How's it working out M?

Is VdL still looking at/favouring a Rwanda style solution too?

https://euobserver.com/migration/araa757569

Varadkar was keen as well but he jumped before…



https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0307/1436479...

[Mortarboard]

The EPP isn't the EU, and VDL isn't a supreme ruler.

Do let us know of it ever comes to pass

Amd varadker was rooting processing, not locating. And he's not taoiseach......

M

[Deesee]

Meanwhile the advanced western economies of Norway, Switzerland and the UK are not EU members (as would be large net contributors) the move east for cheap labour continues..by the EC. For 2x underdeveloped poor countries with poor records in corruption, human rights etc.

Ukraine and Moldova now for ascension, with Montenegro also now hitting EU benchmarks for joining (after 30 years of cooking the books)..

[Mortarboard]

Why wouldn't they want to join? Are you suggesting the EU is running some honey trap operation?

Infiltrating their givernments and electorate to skew votes?



M.

[the-photographer]

One final article to close this thread for good

https://newrepublic.com/article/182987/british-ele...

Original

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what...

[Deesee]

Mortarboard said:

Why wouldn't they want to join? Are you suggesting the EU is running some honey trap operation?

Infiltrating their givernments and electorate to skew votes?



M.

Moving into Soviet territory..

Some trading bloc when 3 of the largest advanced economies on your doorstep are not interested (all with non negotiable sovereign currencies), and economies not dependent on the Bloc.

It’s not honey trap it’s moving cash from Fr/Ger/Nl east, always has been since Maastricht. I wonder who’s been buying large tracts of land for the new infrastructure.

[don'tbesilly]

the-photographer said:

One final article to close this thread for good

https://newrepublic.com/article/182987/british-ele...

Original

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what...

Are you off then

[crankedup5]

Mortarboard said:

andymadmak said:

Great post. I share your frustration at the transparent dishonesty that some on the Remain side display when it comes to this point. No informed, honest person could possibly blame Brexit for the current levels of immigration. As you absolutely correctly put it, the blame lies with Government immigration policy post Brexit and the Government is going to be roundly and rightly punished for its duplicity in the matter.
But for some Remain supporters its par for the course... Raining today? Must be down to Brexit. Dog farting? That'll be Brexit for ya!
It's beyond pathetic and it poisons debate.
I think it is intended to serve as a smoke screen for some for their failure/refusal to answer the most basic questions about rejoining. A few will honestly say that they would rejoin at any cost, or lay out what their red lines might be, but most are super coy about such questions as joining the Euro, Schengen, European taxes, immigrant quotas, interbank balances, acceptable levels of ever closer union... Hell, many of the same people who whined incessantly about how the Referendum question was too simplistic, the public too poorly informed, the threshold set too low, now want to hold another Referendum in exactly the same manner simply because they think they might win next time. All those righteous demands for detail go right out of the window once it dawns on them that no matter what the opinion polls say right now, a vote to rejoin would be most unlikely to be won once the precise details of the terms of rejoining were made clear to the public. Hypocrisy know no limits here!

I think you're missing the mark there just a tad.

The point is brexiting was presented as being able to fix some aspects of immigration (lord ascroft poll from turb in 3, 2, 1.....)
The main bit that was "out of control" (rather than "not in control) was always under the purview of government and 40 brexits wouldn't change that.

There is some irony in arguing "rejoiners" now have to give a full "costing" and plan fir how rejoin happens, "but you can't blame brexiters for government actions".......


If you see rejoiners on here, by all means quote and discuss. Otherwise you're just fighting your own shadow.

M

I don’t see the situation as a remain/brexit issue. Immigration is the responsibly of Government. The Government of the past five years has failed to control our borders. For that and a myriad other reasons the U.K. will see a change of political colour July 5th.

[crankedup5]

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

Are you referring to the increase 2021 - 2023 ? if so the immigration numbers did indeed increase largely due to U.K. giving sanctuary to 283,000 Ukrainians obviously due to the war they are suffering. In addition the U.K. recently offered sanctuary to 120,000 Hong Kongers. However I agree that those people aside our immigration numbers are still to high and the Conservative Government are about to take responsibility for their failing regarding immigration control (in addition to their many other failings).
Immigration is a good thing for the country but must be controlled to remain sustainable in respect of our infrastructure. So I wouldn’t agree your statement ‘major negative impact’ entirely.

In that time, inward migration to the uk was what, well over 2 million?
15%, while not nothing, isn't largely the reason for the increase.

M.

You need to look at net numbers for a clearer picture. I agree the numbers are way to high Which is why I said the Government are about to lose office for their failings.

[crankedup5]

andymadmak said:

Mortarboard said:

Jockman said:

That John Ashworth video implies they can do both. Official policy of working closely with our European Partners whilst simultaneously flying back every illegal immigrant even though the majority are from Afghanistan and Iran.

True.

Working closely with the EU may be easier now "the irish" are involved

https://www.politico.eu/article/ireland-uk-electio...

Immigrants, ironically

M.

Interesting article, but all it seems to say is that there are lots of people of Irish descent in the Labour hierarchy and that the expectation is that those folk will in turn ensure that the next UK Govt rolls over on everything that the Irish and the EU want... Precious little in it about what British people might want a British Government to do. I'd be a bit careful assuming that such a play will always go down well.

We need only look at mainland Europe to see the reactions of people when their Governments disregard the people’s concerns. The days of the elite governing classes are approaching the buffers.