Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)
Discussion
don'tbesilly said:
Mortarboard said:
don'tbesilly said:
In fairness MB does think the UK left the EU in 2017. 
I'm being kind. The impacts started before even the voteDon't be silly, don't be silly
M.
Alternative logistics routes, alternative suppliers, all before the vote.
And if you want to go by "when brexit went into effect"- you best grab a chair and wait.
Customs and border controls still aren't fully in place.
But sure, you giggle away. Looks good on you
M.
Mortarboard said:
Yup. Don't be so naiive.
Alternative logistics routes, alternative suppliers, all before the vote.
And if you want to go by "when brexit went into effect"- you best grab a chair and wait.
Customs and border controls still aren't fully in place.
But sure, you giggle away. Looks good on you
M.
The A14 is a far more pleasant drive now it's not rammed with as many Irish trucks using the UK land bridge. Another win.Alternative logistics routes, alternative suppliers, all before the vote.
And if you want to go by "when brexit went into effect"- you best grab a chair and wait.
Customs and border controls still aren't fully in place.
But sure, you giggle away. Looks good on you
M.
Mortarboard said:
And cheaper for Irish importers/exporters.
Win-win
M.
Makes you wonder why they didn't bother with sorting their own routes previously. Sure could have saved a lot of wear and tear on the UK road network and saved the lungs of the many towns residents built next to the A14.Win-win
M.
Mortarboard said:
crankedup5 said:
Brexit is an ongoing process, it’s not a static moment in time with no further opportunities.
Any sign of a plan yet? (He asked, knowing that the answer is "like s
te there is")So we can expect "shooting from the hip", more or less.
Hope labour get lucky
M.
There was an EU plan. We saw various iterations distilling the base ‘ever closer Union’. The next step was the outcome of the Five Presidents report (Banking Union blah blah https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/lds...
That got blown up by Brexit it appears. So I’m not sure if the EU has much of a plan currently apart from dealing the crap on their doorstep whether it be migration, Ukraine or dealing with an insurgent right.
The thing is that there is no need for a UK Brexit plan. There will be governments elected who will be elected proposing a change of emphasis (alignment for example with the EU re x y and z, or a trade deal with a, b or c). It doesn’t really matter. It’s not in need of a ‘plan’: that is what a sovereign country does (oooh for example the US) year after year.
Some enterprising government (no doubt labour) will hang their hook on an ‘industrial policy’ or another (possibly Tory but you never know nowadays) might emphasise deregulation and free markets. Who knows? But the one thing you can be sure on is that the government making that decision will have been elected to do that by the people, and will not have to deal with the commitment say 30 years earlier to handover entire swathes of policy making to a body does not answer directly to the British people. That’s the plan.
732NM said:
Mortarboard said:
And cheaper for Irish importers/exporters.
Win-win
M.
Makes you wonder why they didn't bother with sorting their own routes previously. Sure could have saved a lot of wear and tear on the UK road network and saved the lungs of the many towns residents built next to the A14.Win-win
M.
So full loads for the UK only.
Besides, EU (including the uk, partly) paid for the port upgrades.
Thanks Brexit!
M.
Mortarboard said:
Ridgemont said:
Odd one the ‘plan’ argument.
Brexit plan ridgey. Brexit plan."We will apply our brexit benefits by doing the following: "
Or not, as it happens.
"Be sovereign" isn't much of a plan.....
M.
If you f
k up that’s on you but it’s the very definition of sovereignty. ‘Today I quite like chocolate ice cream’. That’s a terrible obesity intensifying policy. I think I’ll vote you out.Oh hang on, I live in ROI and the policy area is reserved. Oh well.
Meanwhile the UK is legalising fat inducing vanilla till they lose an election. Job jobbed no more fat inducing vanilla.
Seems the very essence of responsible and accountable government where governors are held to account for crap decisions.
Plan planned.
Mortarboard said:
That worked out well under the Tories, didn't it?
Like I said, hope labour is lucky......
M.
I’d say it worked excessively well! Found out and just about to be butchered. No more excuses of ‘well this is problematic because of EU’. It was in their hands and they ballsed it up.Like I said, hope labour is lucky......
M.
Great things elections. The EU ought have more meaningful ones.
Just as long as we are uninvolved.
F1GTRUeno said:
Who did you think was gonna be in charge though?
Like I said, you KNEW who would be implementing Brexit - it's a static pool of government officials either in office/same party or opposition - they're all ste and you knew they'd do a st job and you still voted for it.
And that's incredibly stupid unless you thought you were getting a whole new government full of very competent people that were hitherto hidden away before Brexit, ready and waiting to take over and get st done.
I don't mind the idea for some but people have loads of ideas about things that would immensely improve their lives and those around them, doesn't mean they're in any way capable of making them happen so they don't get done. Why we chose to do this one without a crack team and thought it would work I've no idea.
So your approach was to remain in a political edifice, full of no better politicians (2 layers of sLike I said, you KNEW who would be implementing Brexit - it's a static pool of government officials either in office/same party or opposition - they're all s
te and you knew they'd do a st job and you still voted for it.And that's incredibly stupid unless you thought you were getting a whole new government full of very competent people that were hitherto hidden away before Brexit, ready and waiting to take over and get s
t done.I don't mind the idea for some but people have loads of ideas about things that would immensely improve their lives and those around them, doesn't mean they're in any way capable of making them happen so they don't get done. Why we chose to do this one without a crack team and thought it would work I've no idea.
t, if you will), because the whole of our own was incapable?I'm not sure that's a less stupid approach in life to be honest (well, I am. And it isn't).
Change was needed and change was offered. The status quo wasn't working.
Honestly, I'd have been more than happy if major electoral reform had been offered up first...but that was never likely. The AV vote was all that was likely to be offered on that front, especially while UK politicians had another layer of s
t to hide behind. Cameron misread the room...happily for someone with my motivations 
And yes to be clear I would rather the EU got on with the process of reducing the various chambers of national government to what Ken Clarke amusingly described as ‘local councils’ and apply some coherence to EU policy. It might well save the bloc.
But we’re out. So more power to their elbow. Just without us is just fine.
But we’re out. So more power to their elbow. Just without us is just fine.
Murph7355 said:
blueg33 said:
It’s very weird acknowledging that a decision was poor but saying you would make the same one again. People fail job interviews for saying that.
It was always going to be damaging.
The implementation and the choice are two very separate things.It was always going to be damaging.
Ridgemont said:
Mortarboard said:
crankedup5 said:
Brexit is an ongoing process, it’s not a static moment in time with no further opportunities.
Any sign of a plan yet? (He asked, knowing that the answer is "like ste there is")So we can expect "shooting from the hip", more or less.
Hope labour get lucky
M.
There was an EU plan. We saw various iterations distilling the base ‘ever closer Union’. The next step was the outcome of the Five Presidents report (Banking Union blah blah https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/lds...
That got blown up by Brexit it appears. So I’m not sure if the EU has much of a plan currently apart from dealing the crap on their doorstep whether it be migration, Ukraine or dealing with an insurgent right.
The thing is that there is no need for a UK Brexit plan. There will be governments elected who will be elected proposing a change of emphasis (alignment for example with the EU re x y and z, or a trade deal with a, b or c). It doesn’t really matter. It’s not in need of a ‘plan’: that is what a sovereign country does (oooh for example the US) year after year.
Some enterprising government (no doubt labour) will hang their hook on an ‘industrial policy’ or another (possibly Tory but you never know nowadays) might emphasise deregulation and free markets. Who knows? But the one thing you can be sure on is that the government making that decision will have been elected to do that by the people, and will not have to deal with the commitment say 30 years earlier to handover entire swathes of policy making to a body does not answer directly to the British people. That’s the plan.
blueg33 said:
They were unavoidably connected. All you had to do was look at the politicians pressing for leave. Voting leave was always going to get you those people in power.
The politicians backing Leave weren't the ones in power as noted. Nor the ones that came into power for 3.5yrs, after the first stupid chess moves had been played. Tinfoil hat time perhaps, but I will never be convinced people like Robbins and May weren't being heavily duplicitous.F1GTR's comment was more logical - nobody in the then current house had any ability, as demonstrated during the stalemate, so expecting any of those available to follow a sensible plan was....optimistic.
But that wasn't the point. The time to vote was 23rd June 2016. It was a calculated move by that prize dick Cameron as he thought he would win and could put the issue to bed forever. So if you wanted change (tick), it was then or never.
It was the start of a journey IMO.
As I think Ridgemont just noted, the Tory implosion at this GE is potential proof that the fig leaf has gone. Nowhere to hide.
My guess is that Labour are going to end up in the same predicament within one, possibly two terms.
If that happens, then I can readily see a party/parties winning the following GE on a full blown electoral reform ticket.
Then we can start the real rebuild, from the inside out.
The EU wasn't the cause of the biggest maladies in the UK. But it definitively gave something to hide behind. That I am not a believer in politicians just underscored me wanting rid of the additional unnecessary layer. We should always have the fewest possible number of politicians, placed as close to the electorate they serve as possible IMO. The EU is the opposite of that now.
Murph7355 said:
That I am not a believer in politicians just underscored me wanting rid of the additional unnecessary layer. We should always have the fewest possible number of politicians, placed as close to the electorate they serve as possible IMO. The EU is the opposite of that now.
And will be into the future.Spot on.
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