Macron calls a national election

[glazbagun]

I used to work in a place with a bunch of brexiteers. It was all Europhobe stuff, immigration, nostalgia and Sovereignty, etc. No actual pragmatic reason or expectation as to what will come from it.

[vaud]

Wills2 said:

I don't know anyone who thinks it was a good decision, all pain no gain.

Most of my colleagues (an international company) think it was a terrible idea. No more easy retirement to France/Spain/Portugal. Increased barriers to working internationally. Little upside.

Le Pen is smart in that she is selling a non Frexit strategy - just to ignore the EU and selectively implement what is good for France and ignore the fines.

[Vanden Saab]

vaud said:

Wills2 said:

I don't know anyone who thinks it was a good decision, all pain no gain.

Most of my colleagues (an international company) think it was a terrible idea. No more easy retirement to France/Spain/Portugal. Increased barriers to working internationally. Little upside.

Le Pen is smart in that she is selling a non Frexit strategy - just to ignore the EU and selectively implement what is good for France and ignore the fines.

How does the fines thing work for a country which is a net contributor to the EU?

[vaud]

Vanden Saab said:

How does the fines thing work for a country which is a net contributor to the EU?

I guess it depends on what scale the fines are... In many ways it is irrelevant - if Le Pen gets power then the "rule book" probably doesn't apply.

[Wills2]

vaud said:

Wills2 said:

I don't know anyone who thinks it was a good decision, all pain no gain.

Most of my colleagues (an international company) think it was a terrible idea. No more easy retirement to France/Spain/Portugal. Increased barriers to working internationally. Little upside.

Le Pen is smart in that she is selling a non Frexit strategy - just to ignore the EU and selectively implement what is good for France and ignore the fines.

I work for a French business they moan about it all the time, I have to keep reminding them it wasn't down to me

I won't be mentioning Le Pen on the other hand!

[ATG]

105.4 said:

ATG said:

Globalist WEF droid = someone who understands economics, doesn't believe in fairies or the divine right to be given free st by the cosmos or other taxpayers.

How’s that ’Build Back Better’ working out for you?

Maybe you’re doing really well out of it, but for myself and a great many others that I know, we’re a dam sight poorer than we were five years ago.

The same could seemingly be said of France, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or anywhere else where WEF approved ‘Leaders’ have been at the helm.

Sorry, but ‘WEF’ and financial prosperity for the masses has repeatedly proved to be nothing more than an oxymoron.

For the last five years the world has been abandoning the "globalism" that you seen to be trying to blame for poor economic performance of the last five years. Can you not see that's a teensy weensy bit of a contradiction? Do you remember the UK's lurch away from globalism in the act of economic self-harm known as Brexit? How's that working out?

[vaud]

Wills2 said:

I work for a French business they moan about it all the time,

Moi aussi...

[Wills2]

vaud said:

Wills2 said:

I work for a French business they moan about it all the time,

Moi aussi...

Très bien!

[Murph7355]

Kermit power said:

Vasco said:

It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.

How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though?

Some on here seem to do nothing but with their circle of "friends" desperately "regretting" their choice.

[Oliver Hardy]

Kermit power said:

Oliver Hardy said:

It doesn't I am an idiot, linked the wrong video.

Take 2!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...

To be honest, if it comes down to comparing a video without commentary from the Express Tribune in Pakistan with the complete lack of any reporting of riots on the websites of either Le Monde or Le Figaro, I'd have to say I'm not 100% certain that this happened!

Possibly?

There were definitely protests over Le pen's victory, not really reported and so maybe some disruption did happen?

But protests by the certain sectors don't get so much reporting as does other types of disruption.

I linked on here a skirmish where pro Iranian activists attacked some opponents, this was in London, it was hardly reported even though it left one guy paralysed, yet hardly any reporting, the police apparently didn't even take statements and PH mods deleted the post as they have regarding the policing of protests in London

[Vanden Saab]

Oliver Hardy said:

Kermit power said:

Oliver Hardy said:

It doesn't I am an idiot, linked the wrong video.

Take 2!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwmmIBBojA&ab...

To be honest, if it comes down to comparing a video without commentary from the Express Tribune in Pakistan with the complete lack of any reporting of riots on the websites of either Le Monde or Le Figaro, I'd have to say I'm not 100% certain that this happened!

Possibly?

There were definitely protests over Le pen's victory, not really reported and so maybe some disruption did happen?

But protests by the certain sectors don't get so much reporting as does other types of disruption.

I linked on here a skirmish where pro Iranian activists attacked some opponents, this was in London, it was hardly reported even though it left one guy paralysed, yet hardly any reporting, the police apparently didn't even take statements and PH mods deleted the post as they have regarding the policing of protests in London

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2024/06...


Happy now?

Edited by Vanden Saab on Thursday 13th June 07:25

[Bill]

Oliver Hardy said:

I linked on here a skirmish where pro Iranian activists attacked some opponents, this was in London, it was hardly reported even though it left one guy paralysed, yet hardly any reporting, the police apparently didn't even take statements and PH mods deleted the post as they have regarding the policing of protests in London

Really...

[tangerine_sedge]

768 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

People don't get labelled far right for talking about immigration and benefits. They get called far right by demonising immigrants/benefit recipients, using them as scapegoats and 'othering' them.

Who talks about a reduction in immigration that hasn't been labelled as far right?

Pretty much all the parties apart from the Greens (talking about truly open borders!) are talking about controlling and reducing the numbers. That includes the Labour party with that well known far-right activist Yvette Cooper talking about implementing measures to reduce net migration.

Link to Migration Observatory (pretty much the first googled link) comparing Labour and Conservative views on immigration for this very election : https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/about/

[President Merkin]

Anyway, back on topic, the right here may be imploding but in comparison to what's going on in France, it's all gone a bit hold my beer.

https://x.com/Mij_Europe/status/180112168944022373...

[Crippo]

tangerine_sedge said:

768 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

People don't get labelled far right for talking about immigration and benefits. They get called far right by demonising immigrants/benefit recipients, using them as scapegoats and 'othering' them.

Who talks about a reduction in immigration that hasn't been labelled as far right?

Pretty much all the parties apart from the Greens (talking about truly open borders!) are talking about controlling and reducing the numbers. That includes the Labour party with that well known far-right activist Yvette Cooper talking about implementing measures to reduce net migration.

Link to Migration Observatory (pretty much the first googled link) comparing Labour and Conservative views on immigration for this very election : https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/about/

They aren’t talking about reducing net immigration in any believable way. Talk is cheap and the only Party that I actually believe wants to reduce it is Reform….talk is cheap, motivation and action is all, that matters.

[jshell]

Crippo said:

tangerine_sedge said:

768 said:

tangerine_sedge said:

People don't get labelled far right for talking about immigration and benefits. They get called far right by demonising immigrants/benefit recipients, using them as scapegoats and 'othering' them.

Who talks about a reduction in immigration that hasn't been labelled as far right?

Pretty much all the parties apart from the Greens (talking about truly open borders!) are talking about controlling and reducing the numbers. That includes the Labour party with that well known far-right activist Yvette Cooper talking about implementing measures to reduce net migration.

Link to Migration Observatory (pretty much the first googled link) comparing Labour and Conservative views on immigration for this very election : https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/about/

They aren’t talking about reducing net immigration in any believable way. Talk is cheap and the only Party that I actually believe wants to reduce it is Reform….talk is cheap, motivation and action is all, that matters.

The 'talk' is a complete smoke screen. The Tories focus in reducing legal migrants as a smoke screen for their inability, deliberate or not, to reduce numbers of illegal migrants.

[jshell]

Wills2 said:

Kermit power said:

Vasco said:

It's always interesting when people raise the issue of Brexit over and over again.
For the ordinary guy in the street I never hear any regret about the decision that was made. In many parts of the UK it was a foregone conclusion that European laws weren't going to work here. For some businesses it was a nightmare but, even so, I also don't recall anybody suggesting that the vote was blatantly left or right.

How often do you actually talk politics with "the ordinary guy in the street" though?

I don't know anyone who thinks it was a good decision, all pain no gain.

I didn't think it was a good idea, but I would NOT vote to go back under the current EU leadership. Von Den Leyen just made this speech regarding countries that step away from the 'party line':

EU chief von der Leyen: "We have means and possibilities in the EU to make sure that what is agreed at the European level is implemented. For example the infringement procedures and these are biting or we have the conditionality mechanism. For example member state does not abide to the rule of law, you might recall that we had to be very tough on Poland and held back 135 billions Euros because the former government did systematically destroy the rule of law in Poland. With the view on Hungary we have the same situation that there are steps that Hungary has to do to reinstall the rule of law if not the money stays frozen so we have the mean and these are biting means that we can apply. But of course we want the countries to come to a better path so if there is a change to the positive side then we can release the money, but the EU has the means to make sure that the law is implemented."

So, don't break the party line ('rule of law') or we will severly punish you. Maybe the concerns about Sovereignty were valid...

I'd be happy with a trading block, but not this form of authoritarianism. https://x.com/newstart_2024/status/180092930526797...

Edited by jshell on Thursday 13th June 09:59

[vaud]

jshell said:

I didn't think it was a good idea, but I would NOT vote to go back under the current EU leadership. Von Den Leyen just made this speech regarding countries that step away from the 'party line':

EU chief von der Leyen: "We have means and possibilities in the EU to make sure that what is agreed at the European level is implemented. For example the infringement procedures and these are biting or we have the conditionality mechanism. For example member state does not abide to the rule of law, you might recall that we had to be very tough on Poland and held back 135 billions Euros because the former government did systematically destroy the rule of law in Poland. With the view on Hungary we have the same situation that there are steps that Hungary has to do to reinstall the rule of law if not the money stays frozen so we have the mean and these are biting means that we can apply. But of course we want the countries to come to a better path so if there is a change to the positive side then we can release the money, but the EU has the means to make sure that the law is implemented."

So, don't break the party line ('rule of law') or we will severly punish you. Maybe the concerns about Sovereignty were valid...

I'd be happy with a trading block, but not this form of authoritarianism.

The idea works with the smaller countries. Not sure the same applies to Germany or France.

[jshell]

vaud said:

jshell said:

I didn't think it was a good idea, but I would NOT vote to go back under the current EU leadership. Von Den Leyen just made this speech regarding countries that step away from the 'party line':

EU chief von der Leyen: "We have means and possibilities in the EU to make sure that what is agreed at the European level is implemented. For example the infringement procedures and these are biting or we have the conditionality mechanism. For example member state does not abide to the rule of law, you might recall that we had to be very tough on Poland and held back 135 billions Euros because the former government did systematically destroy the rule of law in Poland. With the view on Hungary we have the same situation that there are steps that Hungary has to do to reinstall the rule of law if not the money stays frozen so we have the mean and these are biting means that we can apply. But of course we want the countries to come to a better path so if there is a change to the positive side then we can release the money, but the EU has the means to make sure that the law is implemented."

So, don't break the party line ('rule of law') or we will severly punish you. Maybe the concerns about Sovereignty were valid...

I'd be happy with a trading block, but not this form of authoritarianism.

The idea works with the smaller countries. Not sure the same applies to Germany or France.

Dunno, France just sounded the economic alarm bells! https://www.ft.com/content/b0f2ce3e-e951-4ef4-9325...

[isaldiri]

vaud said:

The idea works with the smaller countries. Not sure the same applies to Germany or France.

Well the idea has always been that germany and france act in concert (more or less) and they can impose their will on anyone else by whatever means necessary. Now if they have a serious split of opinion if say Le Pen does actually become president, that would indeed be quite instructive as to see what happens. And tbh just because 'rule of law' only applies to smaller countries and not germany or france, the UK most definitely never was in the tier of importance like the latter 2 as far as the european commission was concerned....