Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 5
Discussion
DrDeAtH said:
Byker28i said:
Financial Times saying that the US is set to halt all open orders for Patriot air defence systems & interceptor missiles until Ukraine has enough to defend itself from Russia’s air attacks.
https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
Paywalled...https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
BrettMRC said:
Which means that South Korea should definitely donate arms to Ukraine given that Russia will be offering items that North Korea is threatening them with long term. What is Russia going to do? China and South Korea have a strong relationship in trade, stronger than Russia in many companies, similar to what was happening in Europe and given the idea of doing nothing, whilst North Korea does would be counter productive. If there is any heat by North Korea towards the south the main loser in this is China as the last thing they need are sanctions or loss of trade to the wider globe and they get stuck with the angry place with no money?
sisu said:
BrettMRC said:
Which means that South Korea should definitely donate arms to Ukraine given that Russia will be offering items that North Korea is threatening them with long term. What is Russia going to do? China and South Korea have a strong relationship in trade, stronger than Russia in many companies, similar to what was happening in Europe and given the idea of doing nothing, whilst North Korea does would be counter productive. If there is any heat by North Korea towards the south the main loser in this is China as the last thing they need are sanctions or loss of trade to the wider globe and they get stuck with the angry place with no money?
Bright Halo said:
borcy said:
Very cleverWould be good if it could then retreat to a safe distance and detonate it.
People complain about the fact that Russia is side stepping sanctions with oil/gas. Well yes, in theory America could up production and everyone gives a firm closure of Russian shipments. But this sudden shock would effect domestic prices too. Its the same with North Korea. There is a reason why China aren't in filling NK like Russia as its not economic to do so.
Also Putin and Russia are not looking anywhere long term at the moment. There was a reason supplying NK with fireworks would upset the neighbours China and SK this will make future Russian deals sour. In the same way the state take over of businesses in Russia might seem a great idea in the moment. It torches anyone coming back with anything for decades.
Also Putin and Russia are not looking anywhere long term at the moment. There was a reason supplying NK with fireworks would upset the neighbours China and SK this will make future Russian deals sour. In the same way the state take over of businesses in Russia might seem a great idea in the moment. It torches anyone coming back with anything for decades.
t with bigger sticks.Humanity on the battlefield:
I've just watched the video of the soldier who was surrendering and following a drone. Then another drone from his own side comes in and explodes in an attempt to kill him. It only injures him. The side he was trying to surrender to then sends more drones to the injured soldier with water, painkillers and even a radio.
What a f'in world!
I've just watched the video of the soldier who was surrendering and following a drone. Then another drone from his own side comes in and explodes in an attempt to kill him. It only injures him. The side he was trying to surrender to then sends more drones to the injured soldier with water, painkillers and even a radio.
What a f'in world!
DrDeAtH said:
Byker28i said:
Financial Times saying that the US is set to halt all open orders for Patriot air defence systems & interceptor missiles until Ukraine has enough to defend itself from Russia’s air attacks.
https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
Paywalled...https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
I guess these systems are not just necessary for the defence on Ukrainian civilians and front line troops...it will I assume make a big difference to how the F16's are deployed. Russian jets will be a lot less active if they have to deal with Patriot.
Edited by Cheib on Friday 21st June 13:12
Cheib said:
DrDeAtH said:
Byker28i said:
Financial Times saying that the US is set to halt all open orders for Patriot air defence systems & interceptor missiles until Ukraine has enough to defend itself from Russia’s air attacks.
https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
Paywalled...https://www.ft.com/content/89fe9d6b-3a0f-42a5-af50...
I guess these systems are not just necessary for the defence on Ukrainian civilians and front line troops...it will I assume make a big difference to how the F16's are deployed. Russian jets will be a lot less active if they have to deal with Patriot.
More long-range SAMs make it a lot more hazardous for Russian fighters to stand off at medium altitude anywhere near the border. This makes missions against Ukrainian ground attack sorties with aircraft firing R37 much more hazardous.
The interesting question will be to what degree F16's can operate near the front at medium altitude hitting glide bombers. Such operations will require balls of steel as it would involve flying through S400 engagement envelopes and relying on ECM to reduce its effectiveness and also being reliant on ECM and offboard sensors to detect S400 launches and hoping that estimates of the missiles manoeuvrability at said ranges are accurate.
This assumes that the range of the AMRAAM variants that Ukraine gets are sufficiently long as to get to the point where they can hit aircraft dropping glide bombs at ranges where the F16 can still defend against the S400.
If you throw the full gumut of NATO capabilities its likely that space based ballistic missile detection can pick up the launch of an S400 (at least the largest models which are comparable to SCUDs that it has no problem picking up) and that ELINT aircraft or systems on the F16 can also pick up the S400 datalink. All of which gives the pilot time to start evading before the missile starts terminal guidance.
The other thing that could be done is flying F16's with MALDs inducing the S300/400 to engage them, leaving the MALD to get shot at while another F16 is flying low and close to the border with HARMs to attack the S400. Or outsourcing that job to ATACMS.
This scenario is one where the advantages of something slightly newer like Typhoon comes it, it could conduct a fighter sweep at a 50,000ft Mach 1.5 supercruise with a much more comprehensive ECM set up with a missile approach radar and a towed decoy. That and the Meteor means that they can stand off even further or reach further into enemy territory. The only minor annoyance is that the decoys can’t follow that flight profile.
You can imagine all the possible tricks and miss directions (e.g. fire data links to see if the aircraft starts evading, only fire S400 on overcast days so SBIRS can’t see it) that could be thrown into this mission once F16 is delivered which will be interesting to read about in 20 years or so when it starts getting de-classified.
You know a lot more about this stuff than me that is for sure.
The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
Cheib said:
You know a lot more about this stuff than me that is for sure.
The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
The SAAB 340s are AEW platforms although I dare say they have ELINT functions too.The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
hidetheelephants said:
Cheib said:
You know a lot more about this stuff than me that is for sure.
The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
The SAAB 340s are AEW platforms although I dare say they have ELINT functions too.The S300 and S400 batteries that have already been hit by ATACMS. Have these been identified by local “resistance” in place like Crimea or can they identify them with some of the Airborne resources that NATO have flying around in the Black Sea ?
I think the Swede’s are supplying a couple of planes to help the F16’s function more efficiently. What role do they play ?
https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/using-public-satelli...
Good to see russia is finally breaking out the good stuff, they will be at the channel by Christmas.
(SFW I would think Ukrainian showing a captured turtle tank)
https://youtu.be/Zk7JrM2nLEg
Pretty shocking really.
(SFW I would think Ukrainian showing a captured turtle tank)
https://youtu.be/Zk7JrM2nLEg
Pretty shocking really.
nikaiyo2 said:
Good to see russia is finally breaking out the good stuff, they will be at the channel by Christmas.
(SFW I would think Ukrainian showing a captured turtle tank)
https://youtu.be/Zk7JrM2nLEg
Pretty shocking really.
I assumed the turtle tank was ideal for advancing through Ukrainian lines, and to be used as a proper tank by the Russians once they have fully captured the local area. The one in that clip is completely pointless, what a waste of diesel!(SFW I would think Ukrainian showing a captured turtle tank)
https://youtu.be/Zk7JrM2nLEg
Pretty shocking really.
We know the equipment they are using is soviet era and bad, but didn't know it was 'that' bad.
South Korea produces 200,000 high quality 155mm shells per year. They will be donating an unspecified amount to Ukraine now that Russia have given the North naughty stuff.
It is also a good illustration or industry ramping up in the wrong way for Russia. Yes they have North Korea sending in badly made shells, but Ukraine are now getting their own good quality donation from a pool of 3,400,000 shells without having to ask or strike a deal with South Korea.
They even have a theme song
https://x.com/ManiatiGeorge/status/180422453728796...
It is also a good illustration or industry ramping up in the wrong way for Russia. Yes they have North Korea sending in badly made shells, but Ukraine are now getting their own good quality donation from a pool of 3,400,000 shells without having to ask or strike a deal with South Korea.
They even have a theme song
https://x.com/ManiatiGeorge/status/180422453728796...
Edited by sisu on Saturday 22 June 12:09
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