Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 7)

[turbobloke]

Business is appalled by Labour’s decarbonisation plans. Shock of the day. Jim Ratcliffe described them as ‘absurd’. Javier Cavada, European boss of Mitsubishi Power, said they would be prohibitively expensive and would require ‘huge sacrifice’. Unions aren't impressed. Yet, we still aren't seeing the true cost of Net Zero from politicians, even though it's readily available. U-turn number N ahead from Capt FlipFlop?

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jim-r...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/22/la...
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/labour-and-uni...

[dickymint]

donkmeister said:

turbobloke said:

Diderot said:

turbobloke said:

donkmeister said:

robinessex said:

Just Stop Oil spray paint private jets and ‘target Taylor Swift’s plane’ at Stansted Airport

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ju...

Not one word about this on the Beeb. No surprise there then.

Not one word... Apart from the BBC article about it, and the follow up that names the two suspects.

Seriously, every time. "Well it wasn't on MY feed", so bloody look for it then.

Also, just because something isn't reported doesn't mean a conspiracy to hide the news; the Morning Star didn't report on Thatcher's death on the day it happened, which I found very surprising. Turned out they were just crap, and the day after they'd done all their articles about how her pubes were made of barbed wire and she ate orphans or something.

It can be a matter of timing. A report can appear at a point after a comment is made.

It’s not showing for me on the website (on my iPad) right now. Not in the Clmate or news section. Searched for Taylor Swift, nothing. Searched JSO, the latest article is about the pricks trying to damage Stonehenge.

Not showing here either. It's possible an activist tickled Rowlatt's belly and the article vanished, as per Jo Abbess influencing Harrabin's headline using pester power, possible but unlikely.

ETA well spotted.

No, still there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck55kedn98jo

I'm about 4 days behind catching up on this thread and this is all news to me. I listen/watch the news 24/7 in between anything else! I am gobsmacked that given Taylor Swift and her current tour is massively in the news lately that I've not seen/heard anything about her plane being Tango'd !!

[mike9009]

turbobloke said:

It's good of Mystic Met to warn people about summer. Having had autumn through April, May and most of June nobody would have noticed. It's a miracle UK humans survived perfectly well for hundreds of years and more without such assistance.

It was disappointing on visiting their alternative health service webpage not to see "don't run with scissors" but they may get round to that if the politics suits.

I think autumn lasted from October 2023 through May 2024..... Are you confusing mystic meg and the met office again, or just trying to undermine again....very droll.

Last paragraph very condescending but what I generally expect by your posting style. It somewhat belittles any point you are trying to make......

Love it......

[durbster]

turbobloke said:

Compared to the spending Labour has in mind with its 'Green Obsession' ...

turbobloke said:

Advice to Labour and the Tories doesn't add up.

turbobloke said:

Starmer risks losing support for fighting climate change

turbobloke said:

The "ridiculous" Labour Net Zero plans are pure zealotry, watch out for blackouts. Who could think that way?/

turbobloke said:

Business is appalled by Labour’s decarbonisation plans.

Anyone else noticed the propaganda has a theme since the election was announced?

Looks like PH's resident Tufton Street activist has been given his instructions.

[mike9009]

durbster said:

turbobloke said:

Compared to the spending Labour has in mind with its 'Green Obsession' ...

turbobloke said:

Advice to Labour and the Tories doesn't add up.

turbobloke said:

Starmer risks losing support for fighting climate change

turbobloke said:

The "ridiculous" Labour Net Zero plans are pure zealotry, watch out for blackouts. Who could think that way?/

turbobloke said:

Business is appalled by Labour’s decarbonisation plans.

Anyone else noticed the propaganda has a theme since the election was announced?

Looks like PH's resident Tufton Street activist has been given his instructions.

Somewhat, as if the this political thread is purely to plug a political agenda, despite recent scientific data supporting the reverse.

Still not seen a paper hypothesising something other than CO2 for the recent rise still.

[J210]

[Diderot]

mike9009 said:

durbster said:

turbobloke said:

Compared to the spending Labour has in mind with its 'Green Obsession' ...

turbobloke said:

Advice to Labour and the Tories doesn't add up.

turbobloke said:

Starmer risks losing support for fighting climate change

turbobloke said:

The "ridiculous" Labour Net Zero plans are pure zealotry, watch out for blackouts. Who could think that way?/

turbobloke said:

Business is appalled by Labour’s decarbonisation plans.

Anyone else noticed the propaganda has a theme since the election was announced?

Looks like PH's resident Tufton Street activist has been given his instructions.

Somewhat, as if the this political thread is purely to plug a political agenda, despite recent scientific data supporting the reverse.

Still not seen a paper hypothesising something other than CO2 for the recent rise still.

Instead you’ve only seen papers hypothesising CO2 as the cause of the modest warming since the LIA.

[mike9009]

Diderot said:

Instead you’ve only seen papers hypothesising CO2 as the cause of the modest warming since the LIA.

We get a multitude of papers quoted in this thread stating it is not CO2 causing the warming yet not one paper gives an alternate hypothesis of what might be the cause.

So, by consensus, there is no hypothesis given to the warming trend other than manmade CO2 emissions. It is a little odd, would you not think??

[Diderot]

mike9009 said:

Diderot said:

Instead you’ve only seen papers hypothesising CO2 as the cause of the modest warming since the LIA.

We get a multitude of papers quoted in this thread stating it is not CO2 causing the warming yet not one paper gives an alternate hypothesis of what might be the cause.

So, by consensus, there is no hypothesis given to the warming trend other than manmade CO2 emissions. It is a little odd, would you not think??

Consensus has never had any role to play in science until it’s been politically expedient to deploy such a political manoeuvre. It is by its very definition and nature, political. If you have to ask the question you just have, then you have no understanding of what is really going on.

[donkmeister]

dickymint said:

donkmeister said:

turbobloke said:

Diderot said:

turbobloke said:

donkmeister said:

robinessex said:

Just Stop Oil spray paint private jets and ‘target Taylor Swift’s plane’ at Stansted Airport

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ju...

Not one word about this on the Beeb. No surprise there then.

Not one word... Apart from the BBC article about it, and the follow up that names the two suspects.

Seriously, every time. "Well it wasn't on MY feed", so bloody look for it then.

Also, just because something isn't reported doesn't mean a conspiracy to hide the news; the Morning Star didn't report on Thatcher's death on the day it happened, which I found very surprising. Turned out they were just crap, and the day after they'd done all their articles about how her pubes were made of barbed wire and she ate orphans or something.

It can be a matter of timing. A report can appear at a point after a comment is made.

It’s not showing for me on the website (on my iPad) right now. Not in the Clmate or news section. Searched for Taylor Swift, nothing. Searched JSO, the latest article is about the pricks trying to damage Stonehenge.

Not showing here either. It's possible an activist tickled Rowlatt's belly and the article vanished, as per Jo Abbess influencing Harrabin's headline using pester power, possible but unlikely.

ETA well spotted.

No, still there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck55kedn98jo

I'm about 4 days behind catching up on this thread and this is all news to me. I listen/watch the news 24/7 in between anything else! I am gobsmacked that given Taylor Swift and her current tour is massively in the news lately that I've not seen/heard anything about her plane being Tango'd !!

Man... If only a large and well-known outlet such as the BBC would report on oh wait they did. The link is right there above your post.

Where do you get your news? Would be interesting to see how your outlets of choice have reported on it. It's entirely possible that "annoying people throw orange paint at a vehicle belonging to someone you probably haven't heard of" isn't particularly interesting news.

[turbobloke]

donkmeister said:

dickymint said:

donkmeister said:

turbobloke said:

Diderot said:

turbobloke said:

donkmeister said:

robinessex said:

Just Stop Oil spray paint private jets and ‘target Taylor Swift’s plane’ at Stansted Airport

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ju...

Not one word about this on the Beeb. No surprise there then.

Not one word... Apart from the BBC article about it, and the follow up that names the two suspects.

Seriously, every time. "Well it wasn't on MY feed", so bloody look for it then.

Also, just because something isn't reported doesn't mean a conspiracy to hide the news; the Morning Star didn't report on Thatcher's death on the day it happened, which I found very surprising. Turned out they were just crap, and the day after they'd done all their articles about how her pubes were made of barbed wire and she ate orphans or something.

It can be a matter of timing. A report can appear at a point after a comment is made.

It’s not showing for me on the website (on my iPad) right now. Not in the Clmate or news section. Searched for Taylor Swift, nothing. Searched JSO, the latest article is about the pricks trying to damage Stonehenge.

Not showing here either. It's possible an activist tickled Rowlatt's belly and the article vanished, as per Jo Abbess influencing Harrabin's headline using pester power, possible but unlikely.

ETA well spotted.

No, still there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck55kedn98jo

I'm about 4 days behind catching up on this thread and this is all news to me. I listen/watch the news 24/7 in between anything else! I am gobsmacked that given Taylor Swift and her current tour is massively in the news lately that I've not seen/heard anything about her plane being Tango'd !!

Man... If only a large and well-known outlet such as the BBC would report on oh wait they did. The link is right there above your post.

Where do you get your news? Would be interesting to see how your outlets of choice have reported on it. It's entirely possible that "annoying people throw orange paint at a vehicle belonging to someone you probably haven't heard of" isn't particularly interesting news.

Not interesting? JSO will be heartbroken.

Do you remember Harrabin and Jo Abbess or is it news to you (even if not particularly interesting)?

[donkmeister]

turbobloke said:

Not interesting? JSO will be heartbroken.

Do you remember Harrabin and Jo Abbess or is it news to you (even if not particularly interesting)?

But it really isn't very interesting, is it? Whereas when that XR chap glued himself to the roof of a plane, it was.

For what it's worth, when I was a student our med student colleagues enacted a toll on the M1 for RAG. Didn't make the news despite it being 20+ years ago and not "yet more JSO layabouts".

So come on, which news outlets didn't cover the "not Taylor Swift's plane" story?

[turbobloke]

donkmeister said:

turbobloke said:

Not interesting? JSO will be heartbroken.

Do you remember Harrabin and Jo Abbess or is it news to you (even if not particularly interesting)?

But it really isn't very interesting, is it? Whereas when that XR chap glued himself to the roof of a plane, it was.

For what it's worth, when I was a student our med student colleagues enacted a toll on the M1 for RAG. Didn't make the news despite it being 20+ years ago and not "yet more JSO layabouts".

So come on, which news outlets didn't cover the "not Taylor Swift's plane" story?

You think I'll check how many news outlets? The initial post was about BBC coverage.

I noticed that you dodged the Harrabin question, fair enough.

[donkmeister]

turbobloke said:

donkmeister said:

turbobloke said:

Not interesting? JSO will be heartbroken.

Do you remember Harrabin and Jo Abbess or is it news to you (even if not particularly interesting)?

But it really isn't very interesting, is it? Whereas when that XR chap glued himself to the roof of a plane, it was.

For what it's worth, when I was a student our med student colleagues enacted a toll on the M1 for RAG. Didn't make the news despite it being 20+ years ago and not "yet more JSO layabouts".

So come on, which news outlets didn't cover the "not Taylor Swift's plane" story?

You think I'll check how many news outlets? The initial post was about BBC coverage.

I noticed that you dodged the Harrabin question, fair enough.

Didn't dodge any question. It's outside the scope of what we're discussing, which is:

dickymint said:

I'm about 4 days behind catching up on this thread and this is all news to me. I listen/watch the news 24/7 in between anything else! I am gobsmacked that given Taylor Swift and her current tour is massively in the news lately that I've not seen/heard anything about her plane being Tango'd !!

I'm gobsmacked that someone would be gobsmacked that in a world where he have some really rather important big boy news happening, a story about some random's private jet getting a bit of paint on it should push "Russia and North Korea acting mental" and "we've got a GE soon - fk knows which dheads you should vote for but let's try to work out who's worst" off the front page and instead be reported amongst the hundreds of other odds and sods.

[hairykrishna]

It's a weird thread of discussion. I'd think that the crusaders against climate change getting so much attention would be delighted that JSO's attention seeking isn't getting lots of coverage. Somehow that's become evidence of a BBC conspiracy.

[turbobloke]

Vauxhall's boss has threatened to mothball its UK factories due to gov't Net Zero targets for EV sales. Stellantis warned yesterday that Vauxhall would be forced to freeze, not boil, plants at Ellesmere Port and Luton unless the (new) Government relaxed rules forcing manufacturers to sell a certain proportion of EVs.Sir Kier Starmer, can he fix it without dressing up as Bob the Builder...if the answer's yes, another u-turn is on the cards.

[turbobloke]

Send in the clouds, the clowns are already here

Link said:

Considering this error margin of 72 W/m² is 360 times larger than the total forcing from CO2 over the span of 10 years (0.2 W/m²) for an imaginary clear-sky-only (cloudless) Earth (Feldman et al., 2015), it is not possible to detect the real-world effect of CO2 forcing in any radiative transfer calculation.

Our political policy is driven by belief that it's detectable because a political advocacy group believes in it.

[robinessex]

turbobloke said:

Send in the clouds, the clowns are already here

Link said:

Considering this error margin of 72 W/m² is 360 times larger than the total forcing from CO2 over the span of 10 years (0.2 W/m²) for an imaginary clear-sky-only (cloudless) Earth (Feldman et al., 2015), it is not possible to detect the real-world effect of CO2 forcing in any radiative transfer calculation.

Our political policy is driven by belief that it's detectable because a political advocacy group believes in it.

Oh no, not the 'climate models' wrong again. I've only just gotten over the world tree population error by a factor of 10. Whatever next?

PS. Has anyone checked if the Sun is included in the models correctly as well?

[turbobloke]

robinessex said:

turbobloke said:

Send in the clouds, the clowns are already here

Link said:

Considering this error margin of 72 W/m² is 360 times larger than the total forcing from CO2 over the span of 10 years (0.2 W/m²) for an imaginary clear-sky-only (cloudless) Earth (Feldman et al., 2015), it is not possible to detect the real-world effect of CO2 forcing in any radiative transfer calculation.

Our political policy is driven by belief that it's detectable because a political advocacy group believes in it.

Oh no, not the 'climate models' wrong again. I've only just gotten over the world tree population error by a factor of 10. Whatever next?

PS. Has anyone checked if the Sun is included in the models correctly as well?

Yes, and as for correctly, taking a view is possible without any need of a computer model. Some work by Scafetta has been posted earlier which leads to solar forcing of climate change being a significantly larger factor than represented in CMIP general circulation climate models. In particular, modellers tend to use an outlier database for TSI which lowballs variation to leave room for impotent tax gas imaginings. The ACRIM TSI composite implies a greater multidecadal TSI variability in contrast to the conveniently low, down-biased PMOD TSI composite. There are so many reasons why inadequate climate models are unfit for use in policymaking it would take too long for the purpose of a forum thread to collate and list - many have been covered over the years.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2019/1...

[mike9009]

turbobloke said:

Vauxhall's boss has threatened to mothball its UK factories due to gov't Net Zero targets for EV sales. Stellantis warned yesterday that Vauxhall would be forced to freeze, not boil, plants at Ellesmere Port and Luton unless the (new) Government relaxed rules forcing manufacturers to sell a certain proportion of EVs.Sir Kier Starmer, can he fix it without dressing up as Bob the Builder...if the answer's yes, another u-turn is on the cards.

They are always moaning about something..... to influence UK policy making.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295