Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

[mko9]

mikey_b said:

Byker28i said:

Was it wrapped to hide the rust?

Still illegal in the EU/UK though...
it doesn't meet current European standards. Its stainless steel body is too thin to withstand impact, its weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, requiring a category C1 driving license, and its charging system is not compatible with European charging stations.

Last bit is strange, is it only designed for tesla charging stations?

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 12th June 13:26

All Teslas sold in the US have a different charging port design to those sold in Europe. Probably one of the easier design problems to fix though...

Presumably a result of 220v vs 120v power? The Tesla charger has been adopted as the North American standard by virtually all manufacturers. Kind of weird that they are using a different charger in Europe (and elsewhere?).

[Durzel]

Sold my Tesla shares this morning. Missed out on a ~4% "pump" today but honestly don't care. Either Musk gets his compensation and dilutes shareholders over the coming months, years, etc to prop up Twitter/X, or he doesn't and throws his toys out of the pram. Don't see a positive outcome either way.

Feels like the company is at sea at the moment. They are encumbered by Musk, who seems barely interested in it. Not having a Model 2 in production/being delivered already is a spectacular misstep, given the competition. Still at least Twitter/X - the Everything App - is going from strength to strength.

[off_again]

mko9 said:

mikey_b said:

Byker28i said:

Was it wrapped to hide the rust?

Still illegal in the EU/UK though...
it doesn't meet current European standards. Its stainless steel body is too thin to withstand impact, its weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, requiring a category C1 driving license, and its charging system is not compatible with European charging stations.

Last bit is strange, is it only designed for tesla charging stations?

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 12th June 13:26

All Teslas sold in the US have a different charging port design to those sold in Europe. Probably one of the easier design problems to fix though...

Presumably a result of 220v vs 120v power? The Tesla charger has been adopted as the North American standard by virtually all manufacturers. Kind of weird that they are using a different charger in Europe (and elsewhere?).

I dont think it was due to the power differences - this is one area in which Tesla pioneered a bunch of stuff which the industry has subsequently adopted. At the time, there were a number of standards available, but none fitted the requirements that Tesla needed. Specifically around the ability to drastically simplify the charging process (without having to login or insert a credit card etc). It needed to have a communications mechanism and a secure way for the car to identify itself to the charger and vice versa.

Since there were no standards, Tesla went their own way and rolled out the Supercharging network, again another innovation that leads the market. But Tesla didnt make its way into Europe until later and there were restrictionson what the standards were. While the plugs should be the same, Tesla made sure it has this communications link in there, so unless the car can verify its identity to the Tesla charger, nothing will happen.

Back in 2012 or whenever it was, the Model S introduced the style charger they have today. I believe at the time, the Leaf style charger was the most available option, but with other manufacturers fighting it out between that and the common one today, Tesla just bypassed all of this and went their own way - and the government didnt stop them, unlike in Europe where it was enforced, but later.

[h0b0]

US houses are 220240V. It is stepped down at the panel in the house. Many houses have 220240V circuits for things like the dryer.

Edited to correct brain fart, 120+120=240. I used to work in laboratories where 240V could mean anywhere from 208V to 240V in the US.

Edited by h0b0 on Thursday 13th June 17:22

[eliot]

my understanding is that the cybertruck is a truck rather than a car - and trucks have different pedestrian safety standards (or in fact none at-all) which is why it can never come to europe

[off_again]

h0b0 said:

US houses are 220V. It is stepped down at the panel in the house. Many houses have 220V circuits for things like the dryer.

Its worth noting that the US domestic supply is 60hz while most other countries its 50hz, so there is a difference there too.

I do find it funny though - Americans freak out about every socket in the UK having 240v! Yeah, just dont lick your fingers and stick it in the socket and you will be fine.

[hidetheelephants]

off_again said:

h0b0 said:

US houses are 220V. It is stepped down at the panel in the house. Many houses have 220V circuits for things like the dryer.

Its worth noting that the US domestic supply is 60hz while most other countries its 50hz, so there is a difference there too.

I do find it funny though - Americans freak out about every socket in the UK having 240v! Yeah, just dont lick your fingers and stick it in the socket and you will be fine.

Yes, because 110V does you no harm at all. We'll also overlook stty US wiring practices and their ridiculous plugs.

[off_again]

eliot said:

my understanding is that the cybertruck is a truck rather than a car - and trucks have different pedestrian safety standards (or in fact none at-all) which is why it can never come to europe

Yup, it will not pass pretty much any pedestrian safety requirements anywhere in the world!

In the US, as it is classified as a truck, it doesnt need to meet ANY crash tests. And what testing can be done by the manufacturer and self-reported - which means they will be totally honest, right?

IIHS does do real-world crash tests, but this is optional and NHTSA (the Federal body) does crash tests too, but there is no requirement for a truck to be tested.

Ford do contribute to these programs:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/ford/f-150-cr...
https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2015/FORD/F-150%2525...

But Tesla doesnt:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2024/TESLA/CYBERTRUC...

Shame, I think that Tesla dropped the ball on this one - previous models (S, then the X then the 3 and finally Y) have all scored really well, if not exceptional, in crash tests! They are some of the safest cars to have a crash in. The Cybertruck throws this away. The design is stupid from a crash point of view and the Tesla supplied footage is shocking - transfer of energy to the occupants is ridiculous and likely to cause significant injuries. Ok, so your truck is 'bullet proof', yeah great flex..... but if it doesnt have a crash structure that can actually absorb the impact, that is going to the squishy things on the inside.

Nah, I'll pass on the Cybertruck. If I need a truck, I'll get one from the big 3 or a Japanese manufacturer - you know, the ones that have actually been tested correctly.

So yeah, the Cybertruck is never going to be sold outside of the US and Canada (who have a similar system). It will never pass crash regs. Wont stop personal imports of course, so good luck with that.

[98elise]

mko9 said:

mikey_b said:

Byker28i said:

Was it wrapped to hide the rust?

Still illegal in the EU/UK though...
it doesn't meet current European standards. Its stainless steel body is too thin to withstand impact, its weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, requiring a category C1 driving license, and its charging system is not compatible with European charging stations.

Last bit is strange, is it only designed for tesla charging stations?

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 12th June 13:26

All Teslas sold in the US have a different charging port design to those sold in Europe. Probably one of the easier design problems to fix though...

Presumably a result of 220v vs 120v power? The Tesla charger has been adopted as the North American standard by virtually all manufacturers. Kind of weird that they are using a different charger in Europe (and elsewhere?).

That's Voltage rather than Power. If you were limited to 120v you would just need a bigger cable to handle the greater current for the same Power. You can have 220v in the US though.

[mko9]

98elise said:

mko9 said:

mikey_b said:

Byker28i said:

Was it wrapped to hide the rust?

Still illegal in the EU/UK though...
it doesn't meet current European standards. Its stainless steel body is too thin to withstand impact, its weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, requiring a category C1 driving license, and its charging system is not compatible with European charging stations.

Last bit is strange, is it only designed for tesla charging stations?

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 12th June 13:26

All Teslas sold in the US have a different charging port design to those sold in Europe. Probably one of the easier design problems to fix though...

Presumably a result of 220v vs 120v power? The Tesla charger has been adopted as the North American standard by virtually all manufacturers. Kind of weird that they are using a different charger in Europe (and elsewhere?).

That's Voltage rather than Power. If you were limited to 120v you would just need a bigger cable to handle the greater current for the same Power. You can have 220v in the US though.

Yes, as H0B0 said incorrectly, above. It is actually 240v, not 220v. The dryer circuit is 240v, likewise the stove if it is electric rather than gas. All the outlets are 120v. So to get a 240v charger in the garage for your car, you have to pay to get a circuit added.

[Byker28i]

WTF now at SpaceX?
Claims that Musk asked one female employee to have his children. When she refused, he denied her raise and complained about her performance.
Had an affair with an Intern, a sexual relationship with another...
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/12/24176705/spacex...


Remember when a SpaceX flight attendant said Musk exposed himself and propositioned her for sex, documents show. The company paid $250,000 for her silence.
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-paid-250000...

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 12th June 21:04

[EddieSteadyGo]

Durzel said:

Sold my Tesla shares this morning. Missed out on a ~4% "pump" today but honestly don't care. Either Musk gets his compensation and dilutes shareholders over the coming months, years, etc to prop up Twitter/X, or he doesn't and throws his toys out of the pram. Don't see a positive outcome either way.

Feels like the company is at sea at the moment. They are encumbered by Musk, who seems barely interested in it. Not having a Model 2 in production/being delivered already is a spectacular misstep, given the competition. Still at least Twitter/X - the Everything App - is going from strength to strength.

I don't think it is so much of a 'pump'. Many institutions have been buying put options against the risk of a 'no' vote and the share price falling. Much of that risk will be taken by market-makers, who need to keep a delta neutral position, so will need to consider selling short positions on Tesla to hedge that risk. But there is such a large proportion of retail investors who want to buy the stock, so as the risk of a no vote recedes (which appears to be happening), the share price will start to move up. Then those market makers will be over-hedged, and so they need to buy back some of their short positions, which causes the price to go up further, which creates momentum, which causes the price to go up further, and creates a positive feedback loop.

It's one reason why Tesla's share can be so volatile. It is too late now as you have sold, but as I was saying the other day, there is a still a good chance Tesla will go past $200 before the end of the year.

[Talksteer]

dobbo_ said:

Talksteer said:

he also interviewed the first 2000+ people through the doors specifically to make sure that the culture of the company was in line with his vision.

Did he though? Cos, I don't know if you've ever conducted an interview, but....

Even at Musk space speeds, and every single person being on time, and each interview lasting ten minutes and a minute or two either side for housekeeping. And maybe he even glances at the CVs and history of these staff.

Musk working 10 hour days (which I'm sure he does, at least). That's the entirety of his time taken up, for months.

It's a great story to boost the mystique of Musk, but, you know.

He's not going through an HR compliant competency based framework interview. Everyone who got to him had been through a few other stages.

He was interviewed in 2008 when he stated that he'd interviewed everyone in the company which was then 500 strong. Over the 7 years the company had existed that's only an interview every other day. Though he definitely did more than 500 as he obviously didn't hire everyone and he also interviewed a portion of people who weren't recommend hires just to see what they were missing and to calibrate the process.

The later interviews post 2008 are described as being pretty brief and conducted by people being ushered into his office and the waiting until he came to a natural break in his work. These are generally described as either a brain teaser or an attitude test. At most they equate to a few very brief interviews per day.

Musk's management theory is definitely based on trying to remove or work around the hierarchies that slows progress at regular companies. The boss personally interviewing people helps minimise empire building as does doing a lot of management by walking around, ergo he's not just getting progress reports or reviewing material through the prism of what is provided by lower level management. Everyone used to be quite used to meeting and interacting with Elon Musk and they could also see his level of commitment as well.

The biggest root cause of engineering projects going astray is attempting to manage them through long detailed plans, review gates and management hierarchy. It's not dissimilar to how Kelly Johnson ran the skunkworks.

The other hierarchy challenging thing that they do at SpaceX is that if a team working on a given area wants a design change in an area they aren't responsible for they are empowered to just do it rather than have to go through processes to get the other side to do the work. It's slightly combative but also much faster and also combats the issue of coordinating large plans of work and the fact that individual areas incentives may not be aligned with what's best for the project (functions can be inclined not to change things as their performance is frequently based on whether they are on time).

[KaraK]

Talksteer said:

He's not going through an HR compliant competency based framework interview. Everyone who got to him had been through a few other stages.

He was interviewed in 2008 when he stated that he'd interviewed everyone in the company which was then 500 strong. Over the 7 years the company had existed that's only an interview every other day. Though he definitely did more than 500 as he obviously didn't hire everyone and he also interviewed a portion of people who weren't recommend hires just to see what they were missing and to calibrate the process.

The later interviews post 2008 are described as being pretty brief and conducted by people being ushered into his office and the waiting until he came to a natural break in his work. These are generally described as either a brain teaser or an attitude test. At most they equate to a few very brief interviews per day.

Musk's management theory is definitely based on trying to remove or work around the hierarchies that slows progress at regular companies. The boss personally interviewing people helps minimise empire building as does doing a lot of management by walking around, ergo he's not just getting progress reports or reviewing material through the prism of what is provided by lower level management. Everyone used to be quite used to meeting and interacting with Elon Musk and they could also see his level of commitment as well.

The biggest root cause of engineering projects going astray is attempting to manage them through long detailed plans, review gates and management hierarchy. It's not dissimilar to how Kelly Johnson ran the skunkworks.

The other hierarchy challenging thing that they do at SpaceX is that if a team working on a given area wants a design change in an area they aren't responsible for they are empowered to just do it rather than have to go through processes to get the other side to do the work. It's slightly combative but also much faster and also combats the issue of coordinating large plans of work and the fact that individual areas incentives may not be aligned with what's best for the project (functions can be inclined not to change things as their performance is frequently based on whether they are on time).

Presumably it doesn't take him long to interview the female applicants to see who makes his list for propositioning later.

[Durzel]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Durzel said:

Sold my Tesla shares this morning. Missed out on a ~4% "pump" today but honestly don't care. Either Musk gets his compensation and dilutes shareholders over the coming months, years, etc to prop up Twitter/X, or he doesn't and throws his toys out of the pram. Don't see a positive outcome either way.

Feels like the company is at sea at the moment. They are encumbered by Musk, who seems barely interested in it. Not having a Model 2 in production/being delivered already is a spectacular misstep, given the competition. Still at least Twitter/X - the Everything App - is going from strength to strength.

I don't think it is so much of a 'pump'. Many institutions have been buying put options against the risk of a 'no' vote and the share price falling. Much of that risk will be taken by market-makers, who need to keep a delta neutral position, so will need to consider selling short positions on Tesla to hedge that risk. But there is such a large proportion of retail investors who want to buy the stock, so as the risk of a no vote recedes (which appears to be happening), the share price will start to move up. Then those market makers will be over-hedged, and so they need to buy back some of their short positions, which causes the price to go up further, which creates momentum, which causes the price to go up further, and creates a positive feedback loop.

It's one reason why Tesla's share can be so volatile. It is too late now as you have sold, but as I was saying the other day, there is a still a good chance Tesla will go past $200 before the end of the year.

You may be right, and based on pre-market reaction this morning perhaps more than likely will be.

It doesn't really change my attitude towards it. I don't think Musk is present as CEO of Tesla anymore, and I think his behaviour and some of the things he's said have been reprehensible. As long as X/Twitter exists and consumes all of his focus and energy I don't see any upside for Tesla in the medium term.

Even if the vote(s) pass, as appears to be the case, it doesn't actually change anything in practical terms. There will be legal challenges.

[dobbo_]

KaraK said:

Presumably it doesn't take him long to interview the female applicants to see who makes his list for propositioning later.

[Byker28i]

dobbo_ said:

KaraK said:

Presumably it doesn't take him long to interview the female applicants to see who makes his list for propositioning later.

Latest lawsuit from those sacked by Musk
https://www.rawstory.com/fired-spacex-workers-sue-...

[Byker28i]

[h0b0]

Tyler Hoover from Hoovies garage is sell his cyber truck after 1 month to avoid depreciation and because it is garbage. He said he has no concerns about being sued by Musk for selling the truck as no one has been sued for selling early. But, he worries about being sued for posting a negative video on YouTube.

[hidetheelephants]

That would be a courtcase where I'd want both parties to lose.