Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter
Discussion
Timothy Bucktu said:
98elise said:
dobbo_ said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
See now, that is absolutely f
king epic. Proper nerdgasm stuff.He needs to stop pissing around with politics and properly get back to his spaceships and cars
https://www.youtube.com/live/2G-L0u_L0qU?si=53SEqx...
So just enjoy it while it lasts...this money burning party won't go on much longer!
Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
EddieSteadyGo said:
It just needs some progress on FSD, or Robotaxi to not look like vapourware, or better sales following reductions in interest rates etc.
Unfortunately its now less than 60 days until the 'release date' for the robotaxi. With little movement on the legality of it, lets see. And yes, I am aware that its possible that something might happen before this, but its pretty unlikely.Tesla currently has a license to operate a driverless vehicle in California, but only with a driver. It does not have the necessary license to operate it without a driver or a full operators license. What about Arizona? Nope, not licensed there either.
Not sure that they are going to pull something out of the bag in less than 60 days, never mind actually operate something. I am guessing it will be a typical announcement event again, so lots of black, Elon doing his waffling thing and a crowd picked from the faithful. When will something appear after then? Without a license they cant run legally, so they better get their pencils ready and start filling out that paperwork!
Did anyone mention the bloody robot?
off_again said:
Unfortunately its now less than 60 days until the 'release date' for the robotaxi. With little movement on the legality of it, lets see. And yes, I am aware that its possible that something might happen before this, but its pretty unlikely.
Tesla currently has a license to operate a driverless vehicle in California, but only with a driver. It does not have the necessary license to operate it without a driver or a full operators license. What about Arizona? Nope, not licensed there either.
Not sure that they are going to pull something out of the bag in less than 60 days, never mind actually operate something. I am guessing it will be a typical announcement event again, so lots of black, Elon doing his waffling thing and a crowd picked from the faithful. When will something appear after then? Without a license they cant run legally, so they better get their pencils ready and start filling out that paperwork!
Did anyone mention the bloody robot?
I should probably clarify; I wasn't saying whether or not 'Robotaxi' is likely in the near future. I was referring only to sentiment and the effect this could have on the share price. There are so many retail investors in Tesla desperate to see the price move above $200 it won't take much good news to cause it to move pretty quickly.Tesla currently has a license to operate a driverless vehicle in California, but only with a driver. It does not have the necessary license to operate it without a driver or a full operators license. What about Arizona? Nope, not licensed there either.
Not sure that they are going to pull something out of the bag in less than 60 days, never mind actually operate something. I am guessing it will be a typical announcement event again, so lots of black, Elon doing his waffling thing and a crowd picked from the faithful. When will something appear after then? Without a license they cant run legally, so they better get their pencils ready and start filling out that paperwork!
Did anyone mention the bloody robot?
98elise said:
What makes you think he's not leading the design? Obviously there's a large team involved but he knows his stuff and it's his company.
Tom Mueller is probably the best jet propulsion guy alive and he rates Musk. Mueller gets credited as the brains behind it but he will correct people who say Musk is not leading the engineering.
Tom Mueller on Twitter: “Not true [about Elon not being in charge of engine development], I am an advisor now. Elon and the Propulsion department are leading development of the SpaceX engines, particularly Raptor. I offer my 2 cents to help from time to time“
It's worth watching the Everyday Astronaut interviews which run to about 3 hours of mostly engineering bias chat. He clearly knows his stuff.
It's not surprising that a the son of a successful engineer, with a degree in physics, owning multiple engineering companies, and has spent 10 years or so building rockets actually knows a bit about rocket engineering
This isn't the thread for that discussion though. Last time I mentioned it I was told he's just parroting what he's been told!
If it's just money you've surely got to wonder why Bezos, Branson, and even Boeing so far behind? Musk might be a tt personally, but it appears he's a clever tt.
I've got no reason to doubt that Musk's involvement in some of SpaceX's developments goes beyond that of a chequebook. And while I don't think it's quite as extensive as some of his rabid Muskovites would have you believe I do think it's real and has played a part in their relative success compared with others like Blue Origin. Tom Mueller is probably the best jet propulsion guy alive and he rates Musk. Mueller gets credited as the brains behind it but he will correct people who say Musk is not leading the engineering.
Tom Mueller on Twitter: “Not true [about Elon not being in charge of engine development], I am an advisor now. Elon and the Propulsion department are leading development of the SpaceX engines, particularly Raptor. I offer my 2 cents to help from time to time“
It's worth watching the Everyday Astronaut interviews which run to about 3 hours of mostly engineering bias chat. He clearly knows his stuff.
It's not surprising that a the son of a successful engineer, with a degree in physics, owning multiple engineering companies, and has spent 10 years or so building rockets actually knows a bit about rocket engineering
This isn't the thread for that discussion though. Last time I mentioned it I was told he's just parroting what he's been told!
If it's just money you've surely got to wonder why Bezos, Branson, and even Boeing so far behind? Musk might be a t
t personally, but it appears he's a clever tt. Edited by 98elise on Monday 10th June 15:35
I do think there's plenty of reason to suspect that he suffers from that classic "smart" person's failing - which is an inability to recognise/admit the limitations of their abilities/expertise. Which is normally relatively harmless - except when you pair it with being a
hole and the tendency of people to think that being "smart" or even a "genius" automatically translates into being a universal polymath so you get the mindset of "ooh he's a bit clever at rockets - he must be equally smart at running a social network or epidemiology or whatever", except the reality is that you can you can be smart in one domain and a complete fking idiot in another.All of which means you end up with people like Musk and Steve Kirsch going round confidently shouting about how much they know about things they haven't got the first clue about and people look to them instead of people who actually do.
98elise said:
Why do you think it's a money burning party that will end soon?
Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
Why go to Mars anyway? If the planet becomes uninhabitable, just make it habitable again, no? Plenty of room in the deserts, in the Oceans to save the human race and preserve human consciousness. Why travel all that distance to an uninhabitable planet when, using Musks own logic, the planet we are currently on will be just like Mars one day anyway. Seems a lot easier to do just do it right here on Earth. Would be a lot cheaper, and we could start right away, rather than wait for Musk to fulfil his fantasy. Anyone of rational mind can see the idea of building life on Mars is nonsensical.Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
soupdragon1 said:
98elise said:
Why do you think it's a money burning party that will end soon?
Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
Why go to Mars anyway? If the planet becomes uninhabitable, just make it habitable again, no? Plenty of room in the deserts, in the Oceans to save the human race and preserve human consciousness. Why travel all that distance to an uninhabitable planet when, using Musks own logic, the planet we are currently on will be just like Mars one day anyway. Seems a lot easier to do just do it right here on Earth. Would be a lot cheaper, and we could start right away, rather than wait for Musk to fulfil his fantasy. Anyone of rational mind can see the idea of building life on Mars is nonsensical.Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
t. As you say if terraforming tech can work there it can work on earth.hidetheelephants said:
soupdragon1 said:
98elise said:
Why do you think it's a money burning party that will end soon?
Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
Why go to Mars anyway? If the planet becomes uninhabitable, just make it habitable again, no? Plenty of room in the deserts, in the Oceans to save the human race and preserve human consciousness. Why travel all that distance to an uninhabitable planet when, using Musks own logic, the planet we are currently on will be just like Mars one day anyway. Seems a lot easier to do just do it right here on Earth. Would be a lot cheaper, and we could start right away, rather than wait for Musk to fulfil his fantasy. Anyone of rational mind can see the idea of building life on Mars is nonsensical.Starship isn't just going to Mars, and Falcon seems to be very profitable. Starlink alone is generating 7bn in revenues and is also profitable. That's with about 1/8 of the planned satellites and without direct to mobile service which is coming very soon.
t. As you say if terraforming tech can work there it can work on earth.k up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.KaraK said:
Quite.. terraforming Mars to make it habitable on a large scale (as opposed to maybe a couple of hundred people living in contained habitats) is so far beyond our current capabilities as to be essentially nothing more than a fantasy. We could spend the next century deliberately going out of our way to fk up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.
Dont worry, Musk has a plan:k up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.[url]https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a34738932/elon-musk-glass-domes-terraforming-mars/{/url]
Nukes, thats all, just nukes:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a32588385...
Sounds legit, where do I sign up?
off_again said:
KaraK said:
Quite.. terraforming Mars to make it habitable on a large scale (as opposed to maybe a couple of hundred people living in contained habitats) is so far beyond our current capabilities as to be essentially nothing more than a fantasy. We could spend the next century deliberately going out of our way to fk up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.
Dont worry, Musk has a plan:k up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.[url]https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a34738932/elon-musk-glass-domes-terraforming-mars/{/url]
Nukes, thats all, just nukes:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a32588385...
Sounds legit, where do I sign up?
hidetheelephants said:
off_again said:
KaraK said:
Quite.. terraforming Mars to make it habitable on a large scale (as opposed to maybe a couple of hundred people living in contained habitats) is so far beyond our current capabilities as to be essentially nothing more than a fantasy. We could spend the next century deliberately going out of our way to fk up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.
Dont worry, Musk has a plan:k up Earth's climate as much as possible and it would still be an easier task to repair it for human habitation than it would be to try wind Mars' planetary clock by ~4 billion years.[url]https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a34738932/elon-musk-glass-domes-terraforming-mars/{/url]
Nukes, thats all, just nukes:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a32588385...
Sounds legit, where do I sign up?
I am an avid supporter of the progress Space X has made but Musk cannot resist having to say something 'bigger. bolder, more outrageous' than anyone else - just because.
He should stay off Twitter and concentrate on the longevity of Tesla and Spaxce X and stop spouting b
ks.Edited by dukeboy749r on Tuesday 11th June 11:46
Durzel said:
Don't know why but it irritates me disproportionately that Musk's acolytes attribute the success of SpaceX to him, as if he is the one engineering the rockets, etc.
His money is behind it, so it is fair to say it wouldn't be where it was without him, but that's as far as it goes. The sad part is that everyone giving him plaudits for successful launches diminishes the efforts of the real engineers and scientists that are making it happen.
Also set myself a reminder to sell my Tesla shares before the vote. Feel like the stock does not have a good outlook regardless of the outcome. If the vote passes it's going to be tied up in legal action for the way the BoD has behaved, what they've said and not said, and if it doesn't pass Musk will throw his toys out of the pram. Either way I don't see an upside for it.
Musk leads the whole vehicle design group on a hands on basis, he also interviewed the first 2000+ people through the doors specifically to make sure that the culture of the company was in line with his vision.His money is behind it, so it is fair to say it wouldn't be where it was without him, but that's as far as it goes. The sad part is that everyone giving him plaudits for successful launches diminishes the efforts of the real engineers and scientists that are making it happen.
Also set myself a reminder to sell my Tesla shares before the vote. Feel like the stock does not have a good outlook regardless of the outcome. If the vote passes it's going to be tied up in legal action for the way the BoD has behaved, what they've said and not said, and if it doesn't pass Musk will throw his toys out of the pram. Either way I don't see an upside for it.
As more companies enter the "new space" market it is still pretty obvious that SpaceX is an outlier in terms of what it can do and how quickly. Having worked in large companies packed to the gunnels with talented engineers it is very obvious that the way the SpaceX works couldn't happen in these companies because the majority owner isn't also a hands on engineer who is incredibly knowledgeable about the core product and thus able to make decisions that would be impossible at a normal company of that scale.
For example pretty early on the Starship swapped from being made of carbon fibre to being made of steel. In the process they scrapped to composite tooling, abandoned the factory in LA and moved to welding steel in a field in Texas and other in Florida. In a regular company they would have spent much longer deciding what the make the vehicle out of in the first place and where the factory was to be based because once they make that decision the managers would risk being fired if they subsequently unwound it. Once the decision is made nobody would be listening to someone in advanced concepts who is now pointing out that steel will be more flexible and have similar performance, they would literally have to convince hundreds of people.
In SpaceX somebody worked out steel would be faster/cheaper/better convinced Musk and the whole thing just happened. They did the two designs and two manufacturing facilities in less time than a regular aerospace company would have done a single design.
All of the things SpaceX have done have either been conceptualised somewhere else first or actually demonstrated somewhere else, all those other agencies/companies had equally talented engineers. The radical bit with SpaceX is the leadership and the vision which resides with Elon Musk, plenty of other people could have provided similar technical leadership the issue is that nobody else was in the position to be both visionary and to be able to raise that amount of money/control.
See the difference between SpaceX and Blue Origin where Jeff Bezos just ponied up the billions and then outsourced the leadership to regular engineers and project managers in the regular aerospace industry who then promptly set up all those slow methods of working a project governance.
The way spacex managed to change direction with the starship construction was pretty surprising while it was happening, and the real time development is still exciting to watch. I just can't think why on earth when having both Tesla and spacex on his plate, Elon then decided that he needed to buy twitter 
Talksteer said:
he also interviewed the first 2000+ people through the doors specifically to make sure that the culture of the company was in line with his vision.
Did he though? Cos, I don't know if you've ever conducted an interview, but....Even at Musk space speeds, and every single person being on time, and each interview lasting ten minutes and a minute or two either side for housekeeping. And maybe he even glances at the CVs and history of these staff.
Musk working 10 hour days (which I'm sure he does, at least). That's the entirety of his time taken up, for months.
It's a great story to boost the mystique of Musk, but, you know.
dobbo_ said:
Did he though? Cos, I don't know if you've ever conducted an interview, but....
Even at Musk space speeds, and every single person being on time, and each interview lasting ten minutes and a minute or two either side for housekeeping. And maybe he even glances at the CVs and history of these staff.
Musk working 10 hour days (which I'm sure he does, at least). That's the entirety of his time taken up, for months.
It's a great story to boost the mystique of Musk, but, you know.
Unfortunately, you're right. Musk can't help himself when it comes to exaggerating pretty much every claim he has ever made. Whether that is from the length of time he was sleeping on the factory floor, or full self driving timelines or this example. Even at Musk space speeds, and every single person being on time, and each interview lasting ten minutes and a minute or two either side for housekeeping. And maybe he even glances at the CVs and history of these staff.
Musk working 10 hour days (which I'm sure he does, at least). That's the entirety of his time taken up, for months.
It's a great story to boost the mystique of Musk, but, you know.
EddieSteadyGo said:
off_again said:
Unfortunately its now less than 60 days until the 'release date' for the robotaxi. With little movement on the legality of it, lets see. And yes, I am aware that its possible that something might happen before this, but its pretty unlikely.
Tesla currently has a license to operate a driverless vehicle in California, but only with a driver. It does not have the necessary license to operate it without a driver or a full operators license. What about Arizona? Nope, not licensed there either.
Not sure that they are going to pull something out of the bag in less than 60 days, never mind actually operate something. I am guessing it will be a typical announcement event again, so lots of black, Elon doing his waffling thing and a crowd picked from the faithful. When will something appear after then? Without a license they cant run legally, so they better get their pencils ready and start filling out that paperwork!
Did anyone mention the bloody robot?
I should probably clarify; I wasn't saying whether or not 'Robotaxi' is likely in the near future. I was referring only to sentiment and the effect this could have on the share price. There are so many retail investors in Tesla desperate to see the price move above $200 it won't take much good news to cause it to move pretty quickly.Tesla currently has a license to operate a driverless vehicle in California, but only with a driver. It does not have the necessary license to operate it without a driver or a full operators license. What about Arizona? Nope, not licensed there either.
Not sure that they are going to pull something out of the bag in less than 60 days, never mind actually operate something. I am guessing it will be a typical announcement event again, so lots of black, Elon doing his waffling thing and a crowd picked from the faithful. When will something appear after then? Without a license they cant run legally, so they better get their pencils ready and start filling out that paperwork!
Did anyone mention the bloody robot?
h0b0 said:
I’m in Scottsdale AZ for work. They have self driving taxi with no human interaction through Waymo. The difference is they look like this
Was in SF a few weeks ago and saw a bunch of them. Seem to work well at the moment, though the guy with the STOP t-shirt keeps having fun at riders expense….The difference is that Waymo and the others have a complete infrastructure behind them. Operators who can step in if there is a problem, a mechanism to deal with cleaning the cars and so on. The Tesla Robotaxi, and the previous attempt from a few years ago, has none of this. Just a magic app and it’s all good.
Just not seeing it. Maybe Tesla will have a mock-up model to show on stage for the cultists to lap up. It may even run and they may even give a demo too, but we know all about Tesla demos; hint, they fake a lot of them! I am sure it will look slick as always, but when will it be delivered? Will Tesla deliver all of the infrastructure to prospective customers? When will it be legal to operate? Etc.
98elise said:
What makes you think he's not leading the design? Obviously there's a large team involved but he knows his stuff and it's his company.
Tom Mueller is probably the best jet propulsion guy alive and he rates Musk. Mueller gets credited as the brains behind it but he will correct people who say Musk is not leading the engineering.
Tom Mueller on Twitter: “Not true [about Elon not being in charge of engine development], I am an advisor now. Elon and the Propulsion department are leading development of the SpaceX engines, particularly Raptor. I offer my 2 cents to help from time to time“
You bring this up everytime, yet didn't Mueller retire in 2016?Tom Mueller is probably the best jet propulsion guy alive and he rates Musk. Mueller gets credited as the brains behind it but he will correct people who say Musk is not leading the engineering.
Tom Mueller on Twitter: “Not true [about Elon not being in charge of engine development], I am an advisor now. Elon and the Propulsion department are leading development of the SpaceX engines, particularly Raptor. I offer my 2 cents to help from time to time“
Musk made the spaceships more pointy because he thought it would be funny? Rather like his 'fun' in buying and running twitter?
Many of his acolytes claim Musk is a genius for his decisions, lowering costs but thats all from Gwynne Shotwell, who is the company’s president, who makes all the decisions, the only part she doesn't get involved in is the engineering side because thats the only bit Musk is interested in.
He's self taught in engineering, from the companies he bought into, having a BSC in economics and physics. What he has done with Space X is to force others to rethink how space delivery is achieved and costed
h0b0 said:
I’m in Scottsdale AZ for work. They have self driving taxi with no human interaction through Waymo. The difference is they look like this
When most people talk about self driving cars though, they assume it is impossible. They don't realise Waymo is already doing it. Of course, the difficulty with Waymo's solution is that they need ultra HD maps, and a huge sensor array on each car as per your image. And that means each car is very expensive to produce and so scaling a solution becomes slow and expensive.However, from what I've read, now Waymo have a working solution, they are looking at what sensors can be removed and consolidated in order to reduce the costs of the car. I suspect the next iteration of a Waymo car will be much, much simpler than the current 'test mule' version.
KaraK said:
I do think there's plenty of reason to suspect that he suffers from that classic "smart" person's failing - which is an inability to recognise/admit the limitations of their abilities/expertise. Which is normally relatively harmless - except when you pair it with being ahole and the tendency of people to think that being "smart" or even a "genius" automatically translates into being a universal polymath so you get the mindset of "ooh he's a bit clever at rockets - he must be equally smart at running a social network or epidemiology or whatever", except the reality is that you can you can be smart in one domain and a complete fking idiot in another.
It's not typically a smart person failing hence the Dunning Krueger effect where people with surface level knowledge tend to confidently professional knowledge while experts are very aware of how little they know.hole and the tendency of people to think that being "smart" or even a "genius" automatically translates into being a universal polymath so you get the mindset of "ooh he's a bit clever at rockets - he must be equally smart at running a social network or epidemiology or whatever", except the reality is that you can you can be smart in one domain and a complete fking idiot in another.He normally caveats what he says in long form interviews particularly about stuff he knows about. The issue is that he's endlessly asked by non specialist media people questions which do lie outside of his area of expertise (but which he knows much more than the interviewer), he answers the questions pretty honestly and he's clearly not had any media training plus has a certain IDGAF attitude that broadly works for him on a day to day basis but it's pretty terrible for media relations.
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