“National Conservatism”
Discussion
It's OK folks, Melanie Phillips says it's not a fascist plot, honest its not.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-conser...
M.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-conser...
M.
Bannock said:
Just trying to wheedle out specifics. Not being combative, just thought you might have some meat to put on the general concerns you appeared to be expressing.
Certainly comes across that way.Anyway, I am a big fan of English literature. I think we make some of the best cheeses in the world and I think England has historically made a very significant and positive contribution to the development of democracy. I didn't necessarily say they're all under immediate threat but I think culture and history should be cherished and we have a tendency to denigrate them or claim that England is just a big melting pot with no culture or history of its own. A view I disagree with.
There's no right level of immigration as such. No magic number. I think it should be orderly and I think it should be handled in a way that creates well assimilated members of a cohesive society.
deckster said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
Just to be clear on this. This is the kind of culture that is being pushed here - direct quotes from https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-c...National Conservatism said:
Restoring a proper public orientation toward <...> religion and wisdom, congregation and family, man and woman, the sabbath and the sacred...
National Conservatism said:
However, in those states or subdivisions <...> in which lawlessness, immorality, and dissolution reign, national government must intervene energetically to restore order.
National Conservatism said:
the Bible has been our surest guide, nourishing a fitting orientation toward God <...> The Bible should be read as the first among the sources of a shared Western civilization in schools and universities
National Conservatism said:
We recognize that most universities are at this point partisan and globalist in orientation and vehemently opposed to nationalist and conservative ideas. Such institutions do not deserve taxpayer support unless they rededicate themselves to the national interest.
National Conservatism said:
The traditional family, built around a lifelong bond between a man and a woman <...> is the foundation of all other achievements of our civilization.
National Conservatism said:
We call for much more restrictive (immigration) policies <...> Restrictive policies may sometimes include a moratorium on immigration.
I could go on. But you get the flavour. When you get down to it, it's simply good ol' American bible-thumping, gay-bashing, anti-education, and immigrant-hating wearing a new frock.Maybe suppression of opinion is more your thing?
Bannock said:
It's just the Tea Party in a Jacob-Rees-Mogg skin and pin stripe suit.
Grim.
They will fail.
Perhaps... but elements of this will be popular. Particularly with the challenging economic climate the UK faces. Grim.
They will fail.
Younger people, significant numbers of them who have been economically left behind, are prime for this kind of rhetoric.
It's not that long a go tat this conference wouldn't have been so mainstream. British politics has been ratcheting to the right for some time. It used to be in your face BNP type stuff which was never going to work, now it is far more subtle.
Bannock said:
It's just the Tea Party in a Jacob-Rees-Mogg skin and pin stripe suit.
Grim.
They will fail.
I don’t disagree but until they do we must be vigilant and call out their bullsGrim.
They will fail.
t. They are powerful people, well connected and by virtue of their roles, will be given air time. As Russel Brand said of Nigel Farage, “he’s a pound shop Enoch Powell, and he’s dangerous ….”JuanCarlosFandango said:
Certainly comes across that way.
Anyway, I am a big fan of English literature. I think we make some of the best cheeses in the world and I think England has historically made a very significant and positive contribution to the development of democracy. I didn't necessarily say they're all under immediate threat but I think culture and history should be cherished and we have a tendency to denigrate them or claim that England is just a big melting pot with no culture or history of its own. A view I disagree with.
There's no right level of immigration as such. No magic number. I think it should be orderly and I think it should be handled in a way that creates well assimilated members of a cohesive society.
English?Anyway, I am a big fan of English literature. I think we make some of the best cheeses in the world and I think England has historically made a very significant and positive contribution to the development of democracy. I didn't necessarily say they're all under immediate threat but I think culture and history should be cherished and we have a tendency to denigrate them or claim that England is just a big melting pot with no culture or history of its own. A view I disagree with.
There's no right level of immigration as such. No magic number. I think it should be orderly and I think it should be handled in a way that creates well assimilated members of a cohesive society.
Surely you meant British?
Or are you really singling out the English?
deckster said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
Just to be clear on this. This is the kind of culture that is being pushed here - direct quotes from https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-c...National Conservatism said:
Restoring a proper public orientation toward <...> religion and wisdom, congregation and family, man and woman, the sabbath and the sacred...
National Conservatism said:
However, in those states or subdivisions <...> in which lawlessness, immorality, and dissolution reign, national government must intervene energetically to restore order.
National Conservatism said:
the Bible has been our surest guide, nourishing a fitting orientation toward God <...> The Bible should be read as the first among the sources of a shared Western civilization in schools and universities
National Conservatism said:
We recognize that most universities are at this point partisan and globalist in orientation and vehemently opposed to nationalist and conservative ideas. Such institutions do not deserve taxpayer support unless they rededicate themselves to the national interest.
National Conservatism said:
The traditional family, built around a lifelong bond between a man and a woman <...> is the foundation of all other achievements of our civilization.
National Conservatism said:
We call for much more restrictive (immigration) policies <...> Restrictive policies may sometimes include a moratorium on immigration.
I could go on. But you get the flavour. When you get down to it, it's simply good ol' American bible-thumping, gay-bashing, anti-education, and immigrant-hating wearing a new frock.pequod said:
If the above policies were proposed by a political party and, in a free democratic vote, the candidates of said party gained the majority, would that be wrong given we are supposed to be a democracy?
Maybe suppression of opinion is more your thing?
Reasonable question. But firstly, in your hypothetical world I would strongly question the legitimacy of such a vote in a modern Western country. Even in the US, after decades of right-wing voter suppression and partisan gerrymandering, there are few signs of widespread support for candidates espousing such views.Maybe suppression of opinion is more your thing?
And secondly, I would as you say acknowledge their right to govern and then, quite genuinely, would get the hell out of the country as it in no way would be somewhere that I would like my family to live.
This is perhaps a little tending towards hyperbole - but have you read (or watched) The Handmaid's Tale? The views and policies expressed here are chillingly similar.
"the Bible has been our surest guide, nourishing a fitting orientation toward God <...> The Bible should be read as the first among the sources of a shared Western civilization in schools and universities"
Anti-science agenda, no doubt pushing creationism and attacking abortion rights.
Anti-science agenda, no doubt pushing creationism and attacking abortion rights.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Sounds a bit like errm nationalism and conservatism to me, cunningly hidden behind the name National Conservatism. Do you really think such ideas are wildly outside the range of acceptable views?
Yes. I do. Wildly and terrifyingly.I presume you think they are pretty mainstream and unremarkable?
pequod said:
If the above policies were proposed by a political party and, in a free democratic vote, the candidates of said party gained the majority, would that be wrong given we are supposed to be a democracy?
It would be a sad indictment of the state of the country if it did. Also quite peculiar given that less than half the population describe themselves as "Christian" on the census, and that when you dig into how people answer those questions you get people who don't believe in any of the tenets of the religion describing themselves as such.JuanCarlosFandango said:
Sounds a bit like errm nationalism and conservatism to me, cunningly hidden behind the name National Conservatism. Do you really think such ideas are wildly outside the range of acceptable views?
Can you explain to me, what the difference is between an ordinary "Conservative" and a "National Conservative"? Eric Mc said:
English?
Surely you meant British?
Or are you really singling out the English?
I think English literature is very much a part of British culture.Surely you meant British?
Or are you really singling out the English?
I think England made some especially significant contributions to modern democracy. Britain as a whole did too.
I'm sure there are lovely cheeses from Wales, Scotland and Ireland but I am especially into Cheddar and Stilton at the moment. Both of which happen to be English.
So yes, singling it out.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Sounds a bit like errm nationalism and conservatism to me, cunningly hidden behind the name National Conservatism. Do you really think such ideas are wildly outside the range of acceptable views?
Range of views, of courseRange of acceptable views, now that's a different question and for myself in the UK, yes they seem widely outside my range of acceptable views
To me , this conference is just a very expensive, elaborate way of starting the race to replace Sunak. They know he’s not connected with the electorate and, irrespective of leader, they have little hope at the next GE, but I guess they think Braverman or Badenoch is their best choice…
Gary C said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Sounds a bit like errm nationalism and conservatism to me, cunningly hidden behind the name National Conservatism. Do you really think such ideas are wildly outside the range of acceptable views?
Range of views, of courseRange of acceptable views, now that's a different question and for myself in the UK, yes they seem widely outside my range of acceptable views
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