Star Wars: The Acolyte

[C5_Steve]

Can't see another thread on it so thought I'd start one



Looks a bit Rogue One from the trailer.

[C5_Steve]

Evolved said:

KillerHERTZ said:

Trailers getting slammed with Down votes

Great video from the Critical Drinker here:

https://youtu.be/jKHi__DaplU?si=ARwoXQ6QMvnpJ56Q

That’s summed it up nicely. Another contrived load of cow manure to avoid.

Just when you thought the fandom couldn't get more toxic, here people are stting on something that hasn't even come out yet that no one knows anything about bar two lines of generic plot.

[C5_Steve]

bloomen said:

C5_Steve said:

Just when you thought the fandom couldn't get more toxic, here people are stting on something that hasn't even come out yet that no one knows anything about bar two lines of generic plot.

There's been a rich, rich history of sticky poop to draw on.

I'm sure all are open to having expectations exceeded.

Maybe, really does seem like the on-trend thing to do now is to hate anything new rather than you know, wait and see. The downvoting on YT is a joke. Everything they make won't be for everyone, people forget how lucky they are to have anything outside the first 3/6 films.

[C5_Steve]

I'll be watching, but my expectations are super low

Carrie-Anne Moss is always good so let's see.

[C5_Steve]

I watched the first two episodes last night. Let me preface my thoughts first. I'm not a die-hard SW fan, I've seen the 9 main films plus the additional ones bar Solo (couldn't get through it). I've watched the new live-action shows, seen a bit of Clone Wars and some of the other animated stuff. So I'm pretty well informed but it's not my "universe", I don't hold any of the lore or canon sacred or anything. I'm a Star Trek guy.

Firstly (and I won't put spoilers because everyone has already spoiled it above), WTF is with having Carrie offed in the first ten minutes? Yeah ok she might be in flashbacks but seriously, this isn't "cool" or a surprise it's just a cheap bait and switch. Let's wait and see but it already pissed me off at the start. I'm not even convinced she's dead tbh so I expect her back but it's just annoying and an old trope at this stage.

Second, so she's a Jedi Master. Old and powerful. And this girl hands her her arse? By doing something that SHE COULD SEE COMING. She didn't need the force to tell what she was going to do, she was obviously going to knife the bartender and her character knew that and you're telling me she couldn't do two things at once, like stop the knife and block? ps off. That whole fight was awful, seemed more like a cheap Matrix rip-off in terms of the choreography.

Anyway annoying opening aside the rest of the first two eps were just poor. Awful, awful writing and performances from everyone except Dafne Keen and Lee Jong-jae. I'd happily watch a show of those two, but everyone else is all over the place. The show also LOOKS really cheap. The use of the void has never been more obvious with certain scenes screaming old school green screen. Just everything about it looks poor tbh, even the costumes and make up look like 2nd rate cosplay for some reason.

Honestly, I've not had much bad to say about even the worst of the SW shows that have come out (I even liked Obi Wan and could forgive it a lot for some of the stuff in there) but literally both of these episodes ended and left me frustrated and had me groaning at several throughout at some of the stuff.

I hear ep3 is worse so not expecting it to get any better soon.

[C5_Steve]

Just one thing to add, the guy from Squid Game, I found out he doesn't actually speak Engligh. He learned his lines for the show and can now speak a bit but he spoke no English before getting the role and worked with several coaches to just get the lines right and then has picked up bits and pieces as he's gone (all his interviews are with a translator). Blew my mind, I'd never have known.

[C5_Steve]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

C5_Steve said:

Just one thing to add, the guy from Squid Game, I found out he doesn't actually speak Engligh. He learned his lines for the show and can now speak a bit but he spoke no English before getting the role and worked with several coaches to just get the lines right and then has picked up bits and pieces as he's gone (all his interviews are with a translator). Blew my mind, I'd never have known.

And he's still a better actor than the youngsters

MASSIVELY

Although as I said Dafne Keen is doing well with what she's got. Still can't believe she was/is(?) X23, I guess the face she didn't speak English in Wolverine (and the make up) throws you off.

[C5_Steve]

Jader1973 said:

Fun fact.

Gert Frobe who played Goldfinger in…err…Goldfinger spoke next to no English. He spoke his lines phonetically (so they look right) and was overdubbed by another actor.

Never knew that, thank you!

[C5_Steve]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Bad batch was awesome, as was tales of the jedi and andor

Ashoka is very good if you know the canon on the mortis family and followed rebels, if not its probably a bit inchoherant.


the acolyte is definatly meh, Fandar is just awful ...

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Wednesday 12th June 10:40

I think like Obi Wan, Ahsoka had some good moments but overall it was a missed opportunity. Far too much time spent with nothing happening. She was so much better in the episode of other shows we got her in tbh, although the general casting in Ahsoka was very good I thought. Again it felt like an introduction to something rather than a self-contained series which is becoming common and annoying with both Star Wars and Marvel. I don't mind shows picking up bits from other media but making it a requirement for enjoyment is tedious.

Reminds me, I've got a version of Obi Wan downloaded where someone has edited all the episodes into a feature-length movie. Must give it a watch.

[C5_Steve]

rider73 said:

I didn't understand the hatred of the jedi. They don't steal children against their will... They ask if they want to join them. Felt like they suddenly are the bad guys of star wars.
George Lucas will be spinning in his grave....I mean his 3bn pile of cash..

This is my biggest issue with the show. I could care less about the force pregnancy and lesbian witches, but I've seen some people try and say "oh the Jedi have always been problematic", WTAF??? The films have always made it VERY clear who the good guys are and that yes, it's a few tantrums away from the dark side but this forced narrative that the Jedi were imposing their religion on the galaxy like some sort of cult is terrible. The Jedi are the heroes of the story, always have been and so much so that we've seen them time and time again sacrifice themselves for others as if it's part of the job. Never flinching. Yes they may have been shortsighted in some instances but never a problem.

Can't get on board with this view they're forcing. The showrunner has been very outspoken about not following anything Star Wars has set out before, having writers who've never seen a movie etc etc like it's something to be proud of. I don't want to have to have read some comic from 1983 to understand a plot reference but you can't just st on a franchise spanning 50 years because you think it'll be fun. Who do you think is still watching these shows??

If you want to know how to do something original and different with SW, refer to Visions.

[C5_Steve]

Antony Moxey said:

Evercross said:

Antony Moxey said:

I’m watching it and will see it through to the end. It’s not brilliant but it’s not sending me into a seething rage, but I guess I’m just seeing it as a bit of light entertainment that isn’t worth taking seriously (rather like the rest of the franchise, going all the way back to A New Hope).

As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.

Ah yes, the usual trivialisation of genuine discussion of entertainment.

Thing is, I find ALL entertainment trivial. Roll your eyes all you like, but it's just a story, and one that's easy to watch. Like it, don't like it, I genuinely find myself completely bemused that people can get so hot under the collar about it, especially this latest episode. I mean, aliens right, they'd never do that...

Hmmm...but you're not quite being honest, are you? You don't find ALL entertainment trivial, some shows you follow along and know all the background behind the scenes, all the news and gossip etc. Like Strictly Come Dancing, for example. You literally started a thread on it. I'm sure to some people, that would come across as "bemusing" as to why you'd care so much about fake reality shows. But I wouldn't pop onto that thread an complain that people care too much about a dancing show would I? That would be weird...

It's pretty disengenous to come onto a thread and try and tell people their opinions aren't valid simply because you don't care about the show and to then try and bait by throwing in the NP&E comment. Yes, in the media a lot of headlines of articles criticising the show have lead with the "Lesbian Space Witches" headline but almost all from decent sources have valid criticisms of the production. On this thread, again it's been almost all specific criticism of the how the show treas the wider universe and lore established over a very long time. Nothing wrong with that. Even Forbes have slammed it.

I'm a Star Trek fan first and have spent a lot of time on those threads defending and discussing Discovery for very similar reasons as that show has been seen as a big step away from established Trek, for better and for worse so I think these discussions can be and have been worthwhile. To not state you don't like something is ridiculous; criticism is healthy.

If you genuinely have no opinion on the show, then don't tell others they're opinion isn't valid. If you do enjoy the show (which it seems you actually do) then I, and I'm sure others would love to hear why. if The Acolyte brings in new fans or speaks to a new audience then I'm happy for you and the show. Like Discovery, this may be the thing that gets you into the world and that's brilliant. But to tell people they're wrong for not liking a thing, when they've given some very specific and detailed reasons as to why (that have nothing to do with anything NP&E as you put it) isn't the way to engage.

[C5_Steve]

Antony Moxey said:

Yes, but if Strictly was cancelled or they decided to make it mostly female, or maybe introduce same sex couples... oh, wait, they have, but I haven't felt the need to fly into a rage over it. Thing is, and you can take it or leave it, I really don't care about it that much. It's entertaining, I enjoy it, I'm a fan, but were it cancelled, well there'd be something else along to take its place.

As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.

People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).

It's clear from your posts that you're focusing on one specific aspect of the show and assuming all complaints are related to that aspect, but that's simply not true. There are literally pages and pages and pages of complaints about the show's first two episodes anywhere you care to look that have nothing to do with the gender, race or sexual orientation of the characters. It is perfectly possible to criticise a thing that features characters from an underrepresented group without the criticism being about that group. But you don't care enough about the universe (apparently) to understand why there would be any other issues and so default to "oh it must be the lesbian space witches". But you care enough to come onto a thread about it and comment though, right? You'd rather just "lol people not liking a thing and getting annoyed are stupid" post, instead of engaging? Comes across as childish and baitish.

Also, do try and make a comment without insulting and assuming people's backgrounds and beliefs. We're not all middle-aged for a start

Anyway I'm off to the strictly thread to laugh at why anyone cares who's injured themselves and tell everyone they should care about their own lives and throw their TV out the window because how dare they have any form of escapism or joy in their life. See you there!

[C5_Steve]

zetec said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...

This review contains the line,

"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."

This article is in response to this review posted earlier in the thread, which is a very well written and not too geeky view of why it and the show are so bad:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2024/06/11/t...

In regards to the complaints the article you linked, I guess it depends where you look. The article you posted is doing the same thing as a lot of others where it's trying to say that the issues fans have aren't valid. For example, the force creating life. The article argues that this was in the prequels because of the story Anakin was told about Darth Plageious (prob spelt that wrong) being able to bring people back from the dead. Except that's not true. The story Anakin is told and the power he seeks was about EXTENDING life, never conception of life. It's right there in the script, yet the author of this article hasn't even done the most basic check and instead claims those complaining about it are the ones in the wrong.

I have no issues of criticism of the facts but it's not the fans twisting the narrative here.

[C5_Steve]

carl_w said:

Remind me how Anakin was conceived?

I'm glad you asked...

It's not specified. In the film, Qui Gon says he believes the force itself created him as "The Chosen One".

In some side comics, I believe there's some stuff about Darth Sideous manipulating the midichlorians but that's not in the film and also, not the story the article referenced. Here in lies the fan outrage that Ep3's storyline means that no, it's not special at all and there's a group that can do it at will. Thus creating an issue with the chosen one thing.

The point of my comment is there are a lot of poorly researched opinions being given as fact as to why people being annoyed isn't a valid feeling. It's perfectly valid and it's not a small thing they're annoyed at. It's a massive fundamental plot point and not just one. A side series storyline shouldn't be undoing 9 films really should it? Forget the rest of the universe.

[C5_Steve]

Antony Moxey said:

But I haven't defaulted to 'it must be the lesbian space witches', I'm not sure why you'd think that. Nor have I said anyone's stupid, although I have said I don't understand the depth of emotion. Childish and baiting - to me that's how you're coming across: 'how dare you not be completely immersed and take offence at everything everyone else does on here.'

But you have, by only focusing on the NPE element as you call it. It's painfully obvious from your comments that your issue is with those who feel that the themes in Ep3 are "woke" and have no place in SW. I couldn't agree with you more on that point and I'm sure most others posting would also agree. I'll say it again, the issue isn't with the "lesbian space witches" themselves as characters, it's with everything else

And whilst you haven't called anyone stupid, you did say you find the "middle-aged vitriol" amusing. Hardly meant as a compliment was it.

I don't have an issue with you not being immersed in a thing, I wouldn't even care if you disliked it and explained why. In fact I'd welcome the opinion and relish the opportunity to discuss the thing from opposing viewpoints. My issue (and others) is the way you've told everyone you find their interest in a thing "amusing" and feel that those who don't like the direction it's taken are the problem.

You keep saying you don't care but have made no effort to engage or understand so I've inferred from that you are indeed just posting comments to bait a response or feel somehow above it all. Pretty shallow if you ask me when you obviously do have things in your life you enjoy. If that's not the case, then perhaps next time you don't understand a thing don't laugh at others. Ask.

[C5_Steve]

I've stopped watching weekly, not out of any protest as I might get around to it at some point but I just can't keep watching stuff they put out where no effort is made. There's just nothing in this show of interest for me and it's so poorly written and produced.

However, I hear Ep4 is even worse with the inclusion of a character who shouldn't even be alive in this time period and who if they were, absolutely should have had more knowledge than they do in the later stuff they show up in. It's just embarrassing at this point surely? Perhaps something happens towards the end to make all this make sense. I doubt it though.

[C5_Steve]

rider73 said:

i'm confused - so the prequel movies when they start seeing/fighting Darth maul, they say that the Sith were extinct a long time ago and they have not seen anything like them in 1000s of years.

and no one remembers all these jedi getting poked by lightsabers just apx. 100 years ago , that the jedi conehead whos in this series and in the prequels is actively around, and YODA (alive at this time) didnt "see" all of this , and neither did any other jedi who ......"see things through the force"..... all of the entire jedi currently in the galaxy dont get any sense of this, yet they can sense darth maul in the prequels.... "theres some else Qui Gon, i sense ......something elusive"..............."keep you mind on the present young padawan, it will reveal itself eventually" (or something along those lines)

jesus cant these series just do stuff on their own without trying to make it relevant by shoehorning in characters and storylines that devalue whats been before.

Correct

The argument some have made is that this isn't the Sith, it's just people who are "force sensitive" (like the witches). However, that excuse appears to have fallen apart as Manny Jacinto has confirmed his character is a Sith Lord.

Then again, Palpatine was swanning around the senate with no one picking up on him in the prequels, so perhaps this new character is as powerful as the Emperor was...

(but I agree, it would have been better if they'd taken a Visions approach or similar and just done their own thing rather than try and tie it in but make no effort with existing canon).