Discussion
Anyone watched the Flintoff documentary on Disney+ yet? Finally seeing the injuries he sustained in the accident was shocking, but it was interesting to see him open up on what the accident did to him both physically and mentally.
I found the flow in terms of how they ordered the different parts of the story a little odd, but overall it was a decent watch.
I found the flow in terms of how they ordered the different parts of the story a little odd, but overall it was a decent watch.
I think the flow was because nobody would want to see a Flintoff Biography (well I would but many wouldn't) so they drew you in with the crash. As I suspected, there are very few crash 'assets' like film and so the main event is lacking. I really enjoyed it, what a guy and what a horrible thing to go through.,
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
I thought it was a bit too long and agree the pacing was a bit weird. Clearly, as we all knew, the injuries were very nasty and I'm not surprised it shook him psychologically. It was good to see how the cricket family supported him and helped him back on his feet.
I tend to agree with the poster above, he took it to heart a bit much and I wonder if he had any counselling or mental health support as it may have helped deal with the trauma sooner. I'm sure the £9m softened the blow a bit as well. Great job by the surgeon and supporting medics.
That said, it was decent programme and good to see him with a smile back on his face by the end. I enjoyed the light review of his Ashes career and there was plenty about the challenges of being in the public eye when you're a big lad who really just wants to play cricket and get pissed afterwards.
I tend to agree with the poster above, he took it to heart a bit much and I wonder if he had any counselling or mental health support as it may have helped deal with the trauma sooner. I'm sure the £9m softened the blow a bit as well. Great job by the surgeon and supporting medics.
That said, it was decent programme and good to see him with a smile back on his face by the end. I enjoyed the light review of his Ashes career and there was plenty about the challenges of being in the public eye when you're a big lad who really just wants to play cricket and get pissed afterwards.
JimmyConwayNW said:
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
Just want to point out this is the problem with depression (I have Manic depression so experience the very extremes of the human condition), people want to rationalise, or package it up neatly so as to deal with a suicide or depression in the family or friendship group.Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
The idea that someone who seems to have a lot going for them, or it could be worse etc has most 'normal' people saying what you said which is understandable.
But the very point of why its so dangerous is because to the person themselves it doesn't really matter how great your house is or your wife is or even your kids, because you just feel so utterly s
t inside and being loved can make it worse because you may feel like you are or have let them down and they are better off without you....So i do feel for him and others, depression isn't just about how bad a situation can be, otherwise loads of people would be clinically depressed, its pathological, its not because someone is poor, or Gas bill is high or whatever crap the media says...
I've lost count of the amount of times someone has asked me why a millionaire footballer or movie star or whatever is depressed or topped themselves "if i had their money i wouldn't be depressed".
Well the answer is simple, neither are they depressed because they don't have their money, so amazingly, it ain't about the money!
JimmyConwayNW said:
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
Depression doesn’t work that wayHes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
You don’t look at the ‘things’ that you have and snap out of it with gratitude.
The richest man in the world with a wonderful wife, great children and a palace can still be depressed,
Flintoff’s depression was caused by post-traumatic stress. This is not surprising, considering what he went through. I’m sure he’s glad now that he didn’t die, but that doesn’t offset the trauma one experiences.
Consider army veterans - would you not have sympathy for a solider who was disfigured on the basis that he’s got a good family and he should be thankful he’s not dead?
Flintoff, obviously, wasn’t fighting for his country but that doesn’t make his trauma any less valid.
I thought it was a very interesting a powerful show. I liked how cricket brought him back. Shame how the crash affected his relationship with Harris and McGuinness.
Muzzer79 said:
JimmyConwayNW said:
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
Depression doesn’t work that wayHes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
You don’t look at the ‘things’ that you have and snap out of it with gratitude.
The richest man in the world with a wonderful wife, great children and a palace can still be depressed,
Flintoff’s depression was caused by post-traumatic stress. This is not surprising, considering what he went through. I’m sure he’s glad now that he didn’t die, but that doesn’t offset the trauma one experiences.
Consider army veterans - would you not have sympathy for a solider who was disfigured on the basis that he’s got a good family and he should be thankful he’s not dead?
Flintoff, obviously, wasn’t fighting for his country but that doesn’t make his trauma any less valid.
I thought it was a very interesting a powerful show. I liked how cricket brought him back. Shame how the crash affected his relationship with Harris and McGuinness.
Flintoff only mentions it once, but the main thread of the story is what a retired sportsman then does next. The alter ego of Freddie took him into TV and the demand of "more" brought him to trying to four-wheel-drift in an open three-wheeler.
The larger-than-life Freddie conflicted with an inner-fragile Andrew, producing bulimia and damaging booze sessions. The England captaincy was more than a simple Lancashire lad could cope with and shortened his playing career (overbowling himself).
His wife Rachael - such a core of patience and common sense, also seeming to get better-looking with age.
JimmyConwayNW said:
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
Hard to know where to start with this. Do you think scars are just physical ones visible on the body? Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
I've not seen the documentary yet but I'd like to know how the BBC pick presenters for a motoring show that is no longer about how much shopping can a Morris Marina hold compared to a Ford Escort.
All the high performance track stuff and going sideways is fine for the likes of Harris, but are McGuiness and Flintof also ex racers or rally stars?
All the high performance track stuff and going sideways is fine for the likes of Harris, but are McGuiness and Flintof also ex racers or rally stars?
JimmyConwayNW said:
I watched this.
Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
The problem is you don't know how it'll effect you until it does. It can drive someone down a victim/what if rabbit hole. Essentially put you into a spiral. Hes lucky to be alive, and whilst its been an ordeal for him hes essentially got a few scars on his face.
Hes not paralysed or lost a limb or dead.
I think he had a lucky escape but at no point does he come across thankful just seems really down on it all.
Hes got a lovely wife, family, house I just found it hard to get behind him in this.
He's clearly suffering from reliving being upside down in those seconds that probably felt like minutes then the worry of 'will I be trapped/go up/fuel ignite' spiral.
I can't feel ill about him and everyone can have their own demons.
I've seen people take loads of massive incidents then suddenly one hits and it takes them out. Literally.
Wasn't meant to come across as not understanding depression etc just as an observer, hes very lucky to be alive and that could have been much much worse.
To not be dead, paralysed or have lost a limb is a blessing.
I also understand the depression setting in for sports people who retire young and then have a lot of time to think, a lot of what ifs and lack a bit of purpose.
To not be dead, paralysed or have lost a limb is a blessing.
I also understand the depression setting in for sports people who retire young and then have a lot of time to think, a lot of what ifs and lack a bit of purpose.
JimmyConwayNW said:
Wasn't meant to come across as not understanding depression etc just as an observer, hes very lucky to be alive and that could have been much much worse.
To not be dead, paralysed or have lost a limb is a blessing.
I also understand the depression setting in for sports people who retire young and then have a lot of time to think, a lot of what ifs and lack a bit of purpose.
From experience, one of the problems with real depression it doesn't even have to have a reason, in fact for me one of the signs of true depression is actually just not understanding why you feel that way at that point, so those around you can see that there is nothing really that to them they can explain away depression, which is what people want to do.To not be dead, paralysed or have lost a limb is a blessing.
I also understand the depression setting in for sports people who retire young and then have a lot of time to think, a lot of what ifs and lack a bit of purpose.
There can be no rational reasons other than something in your head at that point is telling you things, catastrophising the future and picking holes in your past and constantly telling you in your head that you are s
t, everything you've done is st and everything you'll ever do is st, your kids, wife, family are all better off without you, go on do it, your scum you are a blight on the world you will end up losing your home, you'll be homeless kids wont see you, just do it, just go, end it....When faced with that the worst thing to ever hear, but i get it as my own Mum said it to me once "there are so many people worse off than you".
Look, i get it, but the problem is you then feel even worse because the guilt you already feel is times by 10, guilt for people suffering and you are 'moaning'....
Its horrible. And yes it can seem self obsessed or whatever, but in that moment its just you and the very worst bully in the world, your own mind and your own words constantly picking at you, slagging you off, it's me my inner voice, you can't shut that off so easy, i can't get away from it......... you just can't until you can.
Lucky for me i know it passes because i have the mania as well so it just moves on eventually like a rain cloud. Then if i slip into a manic episode i have to mange that as it can be far more destructive and more likely to top myself in mania (in full on depression you haven't the energy to kill yourself largely).
Kamov said:
From experience, one of the problems with real depression it doesn't even have to have a reason, in fact for me one of the signs of true depression is actually just not understanding why you feel that way at that point, so those around you can see that there is nothing really that to them they can explain away depression, which is what people want to do.
There can be no rational reasons other than something in your head at that point is telling you things, catastrophising the future and picking holes in your past and constantly telling you in your head that you are st, everything you've done is st and everything you'll ever do is st, your kids, wife, family are all better off without you, go on do it, your scum you are a blight on the world you will end up losing your home, you'll be homeless kids wont see you, just do it, just go, end it....
When faced with that the worst thing to ever hear, but i get it as my own Mum said it to me once "there are so many people worse off than you".
Look, i get it, but the problem is you then feel even worse because the guilt you already feel is times by 10, guilt for people suffering and you are 'moaning'....
Its horrible. And yes it can seem self obsessed or whatever, but in that moment its just you and the very worst bully in the world, your own mind and your own words constantly picking at you, slagging you off, it's me my inner voice, you can't shut that off so easy, i can't get away from it......... you just can't until you can.
Lucky for me i know it passes because i have the mania as well so it just moves on eventually like a rain cloud. Then if i slip into a manic episode i have to mange that as it can be far more destructive and more likely to top myself in mania (in full on depression you haven't the energy to kill yourself largely).
I get it, I understand its irrational but at that point its all you can think about but from not liking anything at all to do with Freddie as I didn't like cricket, to warming to him on TG and then watching a few other programmes including the one where he taught kids cricket in India, and all the other stuff he just seemed like a top bloke who was great at anything he turned his hand to.There can be no rational reasons other than something in your head at that point is telling you things, catastrophising the future and picking holes in your past and constantly telling you in your head that you are s
t, everything you've done is st and everything you'll ever do is st, your kids, wife, family are all better off without you, go on do it, your scum you are a blight on the world you will end up losing your home, you'll be homeless kids wont see you, just do it, just go, end it....When faced with that the worst thing to ever hear, but i get it as my own Mum said it to me once "there are so many people worse off than you".
Look, i get it, but the problem is you then feel even worse because the guilt you already feel is times by 10, guilt for people suffering and you are 'moaning'....
Its horrible. And yes it can seem self obsessed or whatever, but in that moment its just you and the very worst bully in the world, your own mind and your own words constantly picking at you, slagging you off, it's me my inner voice, you can't shut that off so easy, i can't get away from it......... you just can't until you can.
Lucky for me i know it passes because i have the mania as well so it just moves on eventually like a rain cloud. Then if i slip into a manic episode i have to mange that as it can be far more destructive and more likely to top myself in mania (in full on depression you haven't the energy to kill yourself largely).
PinkTornado said:
A powerful watch, though I noted that there wasn't a hint of explanation about the crash- was it his fault? Was it the fault of others for pushing him? Who thought it was okay for a really tall guy to try and sideways a Morgan with no lid? Etc.
I thought he was mucking around between takes.John D. said:
PinkTornado said:
A powerful watch, though I noted that there wasn't a hint of explanation about the crash- was it his fault? Was it the fault of others for pushing him? Who thought it was okay for a really tall guy to try and sideways a Morgan with no lid? Etc.
I thought he was mucking around between takes.Red9zero said:
John D. said:
PinkTornado said:
A powerful watch, though I noted that there wasn't a hint of explanation about the crash- was it his fault? Was it the fault of others for pushing him? Who thought it was okay for a really tall guy to try and sideways a Morgan with no lid? Etc.
I thought he was mucking around between takes.croyde said:
I've not seen the documentary yet but I'd like to know how the BBC pick presenters for a motoring show that is no longer about how much shopping can a Morris Marina hold compared to a Ford Escort.
All the high performance track stuff and going sideways is fine for the likes of Harris, but are McGuiness and Flintof also ex racers or rally stars?
Neither are Hammond, May or Clarkson thats why there was a team of stunt drivers actually doing all the good driving in those films. All the high performance track stuff and going sideways is fine for the likes of Harris, but are McGuiness and Flintof also ex racers or rally stars?
Harris talks about it in his books because he was quite surprised when they asked him to get out so the stunt driver could do the skids. It also turned out he had trained the lad who was about to get in the car.
As for Flintoff what I took away from the show was that he was clearly already quite troubled and quite self conscious of how he looked. I think the facial scars are really troubling him on a sort of day to day basis on top of the mental trauma of the actual incident.
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