The Boys

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Series 4 - does Butcher come out as well?

[james_TW]

C5_Steve said:

The plot is straight out of the comics (well almost, some changes but the overall ep is the same).

As for the end, they hinted at it previously when they were raiding her medicine cabinet and found those pills. (Or do you mean the bit with Butcher, because that did take me by surprise).

Thought once again Anthony Starr was excellent, his face when he tried to take control of the coup but just couldn't answer the technical questions was brilliant.

I'm still keen to find out where they're going with Butchers virus, one thing I will say is nothing seems clear cut this season. It could still go in many different directions and I'm enjoying that.

Yeh, the Butcher bit, really didn't see that coming, it was a genuine "WTF" moment and brilliant. Not sure what'll happen to him for the next season though given his life expectancy....

And Tony Starr is the stand out of this season (and the others too) as his facial expressions as Homelander just can't answer the questions - the lead up to that was really well done

Firecracker though.... Wow...

[C5_Steve]

james_TW said:

C5_Steve said:

The plot is straight out of the comics (well almost, some changes but the overall ep is the same).

As for the end, they hinted at it previously when they were raiding her medicine cabinet and found those pills. (Or do you mean the bit with Butcher, because that did take me by surprise).

Thought once again Anthony Starr was excellent, his face when he tried to take control of the coup but just couldn't answer the technical questions was brilliant.

I'm still keen to find out where they're going with Butchers virus, one thing I will say is nothing seems clear cut this season. It could still go in many different directions and I'm enjoying that.

Yeh, the Butcher bit, really didn't see that coming, it was a genuine "WTF" moment and brilliant. Not sure what'll happen to him for the next season though given his life expectancy....

And Tony Starr is the stand out of this season (and the others too) as his facial expressions as Homelander just can't answer the questions - the lead up to that was really well done

Firecracker though.... Wow...

Agreed, says alot a out the writing where something that could have been an easy spot early on genuinely takes you by surprise in a good way.

[ThomW]

james_TW said:

Yeh, the Butcher bit, really didn't see that coming, it was a genuine "WTF" moment and brilliant. Not sure what'll happen to him for the next season though given his life expectancy....

And Tony Starr is the stand out of this season (and the others too) as his facial expressions as Homelander just can't answer the questions - the lead up to that was really well done

Firecracker though.... Wow...

I think the worm thing in his head will come out and we’ll find it was that causing the cancer stuff.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

james_TW said:

C5_Steve said:

The plot is straight out of the comics (well almost, some changes but the overall ep is the same).

As for the end, they hinted at it previously when they were raiding her medicine cabinet and found those pills. (Or do you mean the bit with Butcher, because that did take me by surprise).

Thought once again Anthony Starr was excellent, his face when he tried to take control of the coup but just couldn't answer the technical questions was brilliant.

I'm still keen to find out where they're going with Butchers virus, one thing I will say is nothing seems clear cut this season. It could still go in many different directions and I'm enjoying that.

Yeh, the Butcher bit, really didn't see that coming, it was a genuine "WTF" moment and brilliant. Not sure what'll happen to him for the next season though given his life expectancy....

And Tony Starr is the stand out of this season (and the others too) as his facial expressions as Homelander just can't answer the questions - the lead up to that was really well done

Firecracker though.... Wow...

I thought Simon Peg turned in a superb performance as well. He normally just plays Simon Peg but he delivered a genuinely emotional performance there.

[james_TW]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

I thought Simon Peg turned in a superb performance as well. He normally just plays Simon Peg but he delivered a genuinely emotional performance there.

He delivered a really great performance which showed real depth to his character - The whole thing was done really well. As a side/supporting character, this was brilliant - and very sad

[C5_Steve]

ThomW said:

james_TW said:

Yeh, the Butcher bit, really didn't see that coming, it was a genuine "WTF" moment and brilliant. Not sure what'll happen to him for the next season though given his life expectancy....

And Tony Starr is the stand out of this season (and the others too) as his facial expressions as Homelander just can't answer the questions - the lead up to that was really well done

Firecracker though.... Wow...

I think the worm thing in his head will come out and we’ll find it was that causing the cancer stuff.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is a given, but how did it get there is the question. Based on what we saw with the rabbit he freed then had to kill, the virus appears to mutate when exposed to V/temp V. Will it be something that leaves Butcher, will it be something he becomes symbiotic with (a la Venom) or will it kill him? Also, is it sentient? When Butcher realised he's imagining Kessler, Kessler not only says he's just saying what Butchers thinking he also says "I saved you" suggesting that whatever is inside him is sentient.

Next episode is called The Insider, I guess we'll get some answers there.

[james_TW]

C5_Steve said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is a given, but how did it get there is the question. Based on what we saw with the rabbit he freed then had to kill, the virus appears to mutate when exposed to V/temp V. Will it be something that leaves Butcher, will it be something he becomes symbiotic with (a la Venom) or will it kill him? Also, is it sentient? When Butcher realised he's imagining Kessler, Kessler not only says he's just saying what Butchers thinking he also says "I saved you" suggesting that whatever is inside him is sentient.

Next episode is called The Insider, I guess we'll get some answers there.

Ahhh, I did wonder what the rabbit reference might have meant. Maybe...

[Hugo Stiglitz]

OK I've finished season 4. What a waste of time making that.

[Leon R]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

OK I've finished season 4. What a waste of time making that.

Impressive given there are two episodes that haven't been shown yet.

[Guvernator]

OK I'm all caught up now so can actually add my 2 pennies.

I'm going to have to agree with the posters who are saying it's starting to lose it's way a bit. It's just not as good as the other 3 seasons. It's still watchable but it's lost that something that used to make the show so unique.

The other thing that is annoying me is that it's fallen into the modern Hollywood trap of getting too political. Yes it existed in the previous seasons but it was handled with a lot more subtlety and satire, now it's just fallen into the all too familiar and very heavy handed approach of right wing = evil fascists that seems to be pervading EVERTHING that comes out of Hollywood these days.

Even the showrunnner has commented that this is the direction he has deliberately taken and if fans don't like it, they don't need to watch it.

TBH I'm getting sick and tired of being preached to about politics by Hollywood, a place that isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. Privileged people in expensive glass mansions should stick to making good shows, not using them as a platform to throw stones at political ideas they don't agree with.

[gregs656]

Guvernator said:

OK I'm all caught up now so can actually add my 2 pennies.

I'm going to have to agree with the posters who are saying it's starting to lose it's way a bit. It's just not as good as the other 3 seasons. It's still watchable but it's lost that something that used to make the show so unique.

The other thing that is annoying me is that it's fallen into the modern Hollywood trap of getting too political. Yes it existed in the previous seasons but it was handled with a lot more subtlety and satire, now it's just fallen into the all too familiar and very heavy handed approach of right wing = evil fascists that seems to be pervading EVERTHING that comes out of Hollywood these days.

Even the showrunnner has commented that this is the direction he has deliberately taken and if fans don't like it, they don't need to watch it.

TBH I'm getting sick and tired of being preached to about politics by Hollywood, a place that isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. Privileged people in expensive glass mansions should stick to making good shows, not using them as a platform to throw stones at political ideas they don't agree with.

So you don't think, say, Schindler's List should have been made?

The show certainly doesn't shy away from criticising Hollywood and celebrity culture.

[Guvernator]

gregs656 said:

So you don't think, say, Schindler's List should have been made?

The show certainly doesn't shy away from criticising Hollywood and celebrity culture.

So you are comparing the current political schism in the US with the holocaust, just wow.

[gregs656]

Guvernator said:

So you are comparing the current political schism in the US with the holocaust, just wow.

No, I am pointing out that lots of great cinema (and art more broadly) includes political commentary. Indeed some of the most revered and celebrated art is either explicitly political or has politics deeply embedded in the themes so your suggestion that film makers just shouldn't be allowed to be critical of politics seems, at best, short sighted.

[Guvernator]

gregs656 said:

No, I am pointing out that lots of great cinema (and art more broadly) includes political commentary. Indeed some of the most revered and celebrated art is either explicitly political or has politics deeply embedded in the themes so your suggestion that film makers just shouldn't be allowed to be critical of politics seems, at best, short sighted.

I'm not suggesting any such thing. What I am suggesting is that they don't do it so often or in such a heavy handed fashion. The Boys has always had a heavy dose of anti-right wing satire which I actually, really enjoyed. However it now seems to have dumped the clever satire in favour of straight out heavy handed messaging.

Secondly it's not the only show to do this and I'm just getting a bit fed-up of seeing it in nearly everything coming out of Hollywood these days, it's just getting very boring now.

I'm a Brit, I really have very little interest in the stshow that is going on in the US political scene at the moment. I just wish the US would hurry up and sort out it's political identity crisis so we can get back to good TV instead of being preached at by every other show that comes out of that country.

[C5_Steve]

Guvernator said:

gregs656 said:

No, I am pointing out that lots of great cinema (and art more broadly) includes political commentary. Indeed some of the most revered and celebrated art is either explicitly political or has politics deeply embedded in the themes so your suggestion that film makers just shouldn't be allowed to be critical of politics seems, at best, short sighted.

I'm not suggesting any such thing. What I am suggesting is that they don't do it so often or in such a heavy handed fashion. The Boys has always had a heavy dose of anti-right wing satire which I actually, really enjoyed. However it now seems to have dumped the clever satire in favour of straight out heavy handed messaging.

Secondly it's not the only show to do this and I'm just getting a bit fed-up of seeing it in nearly everything coming out of Hollywood these days, it's just getting very boring now.

I'm a Brit, I really have very little interest in the stshow that is going on in the US political scene at the moment. I just wish the US would hurry up and sort out it's political identity crisis so we can get back to good TV instead of being preached at by every other show that comes out of that country.

Whilst your certainly not alone in the view that season 4 is more "in your face", I disagree with the view that the show has stopped being clever or subtle with it. I don't feel it ever was. What we're seeing in season 4 is the escalation of (mainly) Homelander's beliefs and views, which are now being aligned with the politics within the show. Homelander becoming more brazen killing in the open in season 3 (a direct ref to a Trump claim don't forget) and recruiting more and more overtly right-wing supes. Within the universe of the show, this was always how it was going to go and I actually think it's pretty brave of them to push ahead with this. I think that's what the showrunner's comments were about; this is always the direction the story was going to take.

For me, the best thing about the show is that they've woven these characters into the politics of the show so well. The fact that the show has started to echo the politics of the real world I actually think is more to do with real-world (American) politics getting so out of pocket in recent years. Who would have predicted 4 years ago some of the things we're seeing there (and elsewhere to an extent) would be happening?

I really don't think there's that big a difference between season 3 and 4. Season 3 had a literal Nazi after all and whilst Homelander continues to develop his God complex more and more, they keep showing how feeble his grip on the world stage actually is compared to those in power.

I've no idea where it goes from here but I wouldn't be surprised to see Homelander totally lose the plot and turn the whole country into a wasteland or something akin to the end of the Snyder Cut. That's what I'm most interested in; how will they stick the landing given how they continue to escalate the situation.

[Captain Smerc]

The Boys what a ride!

[Guvernator]

C5_Steve said:

Whilst your certainly not alone in the view that season 4 is more "in your face", I disagree with the view that the show has stopped being clever or subtle with it. I don't feel it ever was. What we're seeing in season 4 is the escalation of (mainly) Homelander's beliefs and views, which are now being aligned with the politics within the show. Homelander becoming more brazen killing in the open in season 3 (a direct ref to a Trump claim don't forget) and recruiting more and more overtly right-wing supes. Within the universe of the show, this was always how it was going to go and I actually think it's pretty brave of them to push ahead with this. I think that's what the showrunner's comments were about; this is always the direction the story was going to take.

For me, the best thing about the show is that they've woven these characters into the politics of the show so well. The fact that the show has started to echo the politics of the real world I actually think is more to do with real-world (American) politics getting so out of pocket in recent years. Who would have predicted 4 years ago some of the things we're seeing there (and elsewhere to an extent) would be happening?

I really don't think there's that big a difference between season 3 and 4. Season 3 had a literal Nazi after all and whilst Homelander continues to develop his God complex more and more, they keep showing how feeble his grip on the world stage actually is compared to those in power.

I've no idea where it goes from here but I wouldn't be surprised to see Homelander totally lose the plot and turn the whole country into a wasteland or something akin to the end of the Snyder Cut. That's what I'm most interested in; how will they stick the landing given how they continue to escalate the situation.

Good post and while I agree with some of it, I still think they've started to become too heavy handed. Yes you could argue this is due to the escalation in Homelanders psychosis but this is a conscious choice by the showrunners.

The meeting at the mansion and Homelanders speech, the phrases used by him and the other participants is basically a very heavy handed 10 minute attack on certain political leanings, this isn't in the source material so this is a conscious choice by the showrunners to use the show as a platform.

It's a very broad strokes painting of a scene to the point where Homelander and his supporters have become comedy evil caricature villains. They might as well all have been wearing swastika's. Homelander certainly wasn't this in previous seasons, his motivations used to be a lot more nuanced than that.

I'm also curious as to where this ends up, however I suspect it won't end in nearly a clever way as we are all hoping as the cleverness seems to be exiting stage right (pun intended)

[gregs656]

Guvernator said:

I'm not suggesting any such thing. What I am suggesting is that they don't do it so often or in such a heavy handed fashion. The Boys has always had a heavy dose of anti-right wing satire which I actually, really enjoyed. However it now seems to have dumped the clever satire in favour of straight out heavy handed messaging.

Secondly it's not the only show to do this and I'm just getting a bit fed-up of seeing it in nearly everything coming out of Hollywood these days, it's just getting very boring now.

I'm a Brit, I really have very little interest in the stshow that is going on in the US political scene at the moment. I just wish the US would hurry up and sort out it's political identity crisis so we can get back to good TV instead of being preached at by every other show that comes out of that country.

Saying 'I don't particularly enjoy or relate to this story line' is quite different to:

Guvernator said:

TBH I'm getting sick and tired of being preached to about politics by Hollywood, a place that isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. Privileged people in expensive glass mansions should stick to making good shows, not using them as a platform to throw stones at political ideas they don't agree with.

I think what they are doing is clever. As you say it has always been satirical on many subject (I would say politics in general, not just right wing politics). That there are a shocking number of real events they barely have to modify to fit into the satire that already existed is funny.

[SpudLink]

American politics is now so insane that what was satire now looks like it’s taken straight from the news headlines.