The real italian job

[RichB]

heebeegeetee said:

I've just been reading a bit of tales of derring-do in motorsport in bygone days, whereupon the engine of a competition car was run in by leaving it running whilst it was on the back of the truck en-route to the event.

You've been reading Motor Sport HBGT but I wouldn't believe a word the Davis brothers come out with...

[thekirbyfake]

Ordinary Bloke said:

The jealous thing is just wrong, IMO. We admire lots of very rich car enthiusiasts. The point was that James Chef didn't seem to be an enthiusiast.

And you got all that from one extremely poorly made show?

A quick browse on the web reveals a selection of the cars JM has owned:
Elise
S4 Coupe
360 (whilst living in a one-bedroom flat with no garage)
300SL Gullwing
340R
355
DB5
RS4
'59 Corvette
'67 GT350 Mustang
'64 595 Abarth
999R
Lola F3000
'97 Jordan F1
C63 AMG
Granturismo

Let's just say somebody on PH had that car collection in their profile. Would you think them an enthusiast? Or a cock?

[DjSki]

thekirbyfake said:

Ordinary Bloke said:

The jealous thing is just wrong, IMO. We admire lots of very rich car enthiusiasts. The point was that James Chef didn't seem to be an enthiusiast.

And you got all that from one extremely poorly made show?

A quick browse on the web reveals a selection of the cars JM has owned:
Elise
S4 Coupe
360 (whilst living in a one-bedroom flat with no garage)
300SL Gullwing
340R
355
DB5
RS4
'59 Corvette
'67 GT350 Mustang
'64 595 Abarth
999R
Lola F3000
'97 Jordan F1
C63 AMG
Granturismo

Let's just say somebody on PH had that car collection in their profile. Would you think them an enthusiast? Or a cock?

Just because someone has owned and owns some great cars doesn't exempt anyone from being a tit or worse does it?

If Hitler or Saddam Hussein posted their impressive car collections (much better than James) would you like them to?

What part of "we think he's a tit and you don't but we all see people differently and it's not all about jealousy" do you not get from reading this thread?

[Legion]

DJSki, very well put.

[Apache]

I think we've moved on

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[dr_gn]

thekirbyfake said:

Ordinary Bloke said:

The jealous thing is just wrong, IMO. We admire lots of very rich car enthiusiasts. The point was that James Chef didn't seem to be an enthiusiast.

And you got all that from one extremely poorly made show?

A quick browse on the web reveals a selection of the cars JM has owned:
Elise
S4 Coupe
360 (whilst living in a one-bedroom flat with no garage)
300SL Gullwing
340R
355
DB5
RS4
'59 Corvette
'67 GT350 Mustang
'64 595 Abarth
999R
Lola F3000
'97 Jordan F1
C63 AMG
Granturismo

Let's just say somebody on PH had that car collection in their profile. Would you think them an enthusiast? Or a cock?

But...if you turn it around and ask: "If somebody on PH had only a 1982 Austin Metro in their profile. Would you think them an enthusiast? Or a cock?" Of course it depends on the person. The list of cars is totally irrelevant, and depends almost entirely on how much cash you've got (or are willing to borrow).

[Pesty]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Exactly the car does not maketh the man.

Its can give you an idea as to what type of person he might be but thats it.

[thekirbyfake]

But many, many people are calling him a cock solely based upon one rubbish BBC show.

They're saying he's a "chequebook petrolhead" and not a true enthusiast after watching him on one rubbish BBC show.

They haven't read his book about cars or his car reviews (strange seeing as they're in the Daily Mail, the P+P rag of choice, it seems) and have spouted their childish, jealous and uninformed opinions after viewing one rubbish BBC show.

The guy has had two 340Rs ffs! If that doesn't label someone as a motoring enthusiast I honestly don't know what does. It's hardly a Premiership footballer's King Road wagon of choice now, is it?

[Prof Beard]

Not taking sides, but I would point out it is entirely possible to be both an enthusiast AND a cock!

My view is the programme made him look like a cock - that doesn't mean he IS one though...

[williamp]

Maybe an enthusiast manifests itself in all manner of different ways?

We cant all be working away in our garage under our car trying to get it to work. Some enthusiasts who have the cash to get everyone else to do it, pays them to do the hard work so they can drive and enjoy their cars?

Thats the sort of motoring I would enjoy most. I work on and restore my aston because its the only way I can afford to own one. If my situation changed, it would be shipped off to a workshop pronto, to join a selection of other cars alongside it. You cajnt restore a Gt40 of modern F1 car in the garage. So, you need to pay someone to do it.

It would be boring if all enthusiats are the same.

[Pesty]

Prof Beard said:

Not taking sides, but I would point out it is entirely possible to be both an enthusiast AND a cock!

My view is the programme made him look like a cock - that doesn't mean he IS one though...

exactly

I just don't get the thinking somebody is a nice guy because they have a nice car list.

PS I have met Nassim Hamed, he has had a nice list of cars I don;t think he is an enthusiast but I do think he is a c...

I will researve final judgment on the TV cook fellow until I meet him in person.

All I have to go on are his TV programmes and they tend to make me think Cock on the evidense at hand.

However as said above this is not a final verdict because I don't know him

[Legion]

Prof Beard said:

Not taking sides, but I would point out it is entirely possible to be both an enthusiast AND a cock!

My view is the programme made him look like a cock - that doesn't mean he IS one though...

Very much so. It seems like some people ^^ aren't doing so well on the obvious: i.e. separating out the fact that there is James Martin the car owner (good for him, nice set of wheels, would be nice to have that tidy collection), and James Martin the human being (as presented poorly by BBC that night). The one that many saw on the telly seemed to be a touch on the rude side, quite dismissive of his missus and co-driver, and not too prone to listening to others' advice. For some that gives them the perception that he quite may well be a car enthusiast (or he may not) but also be a bit of a twit to boot. Anyway........
Prince Jefri has (or used to, depends on what his older brother decides) a car collection that would piss all over that. He also has a yacht called T*ts. And two other boats. Does that make him a car and yacht enthusiast? Or just a very rich man who spends his money on the toys, rich men do. Or does his other behaviour exempt him from being seen as not the most pleasant of people? [I used to work for the Sultan, so can comment.........]

[andyps]

thekirbyfake said:

Ordinary Bloke said:

The jealous thing is just wrong, IMO. We admire lots of very rich car enthiusiasts. The point was that James Chef didn't seem to be an enthiusiast.

And you got all that from one extremely poorly made show?

A quick browse on the web reveals a selection of the cars JM has owned:
Elise
S4 Coupe
360 (whilst living in a one-bedroom flat with no garage)
300SL Gullwing
340R
355
DB5
RS4
'59 Corvette
'67 GT350 Mustang
'64 595 Abarth
999R
Lola F3000
'97 Jordan F1
C63 AMG
Granturismo

Let's just say somebody on PH had that car collection in their profile. Would you think them an enthusiast? Or a cock?

The one in bold does indicate to me that he is a petrolhead, maybe a chequebook one, but one all the same. I will excuse him using money for to pursue his enthusiasm as I guess he doesn't have a lot of time to get his hands dirty.

I was disappointed in the programme, however, and he came across as naive to me in the way he chose the car, spent more than he could afford and therefore maybe cut a few corners and then didn't treat the car with the respect it maybe needed mechanically, worrying far too much about appearance. But some of that could be the way it was edited, although some of the remarks he made were entirely his own, and not ideal even if taken out of context.

[LukeBird]

I personally thought it was a good fun programme a bit more petrolhead based than the 'typical' car shows on TV.
Yes it had stupid showy bits for TV (he was having words with his accountant over spending £300k, that then becomes £600k and then he spunks another £300k, seemingly from nowhere , for a rebuild!) but all in all it seemed a good programme.
Just a shame there wasn't more of the Mille Miglia, a better dig around his garage and a little more info about what happened to the car (beyond the mechanic's diagnosis of a bad valve) and if there will be more in the future?

[neil_bolton]

Chaps, I can confirm, first hand, having shared a good half an hour with him wittering on about the finer workings of the Porsche Carrera GT and the slightly fragile clutch, that the guy is very much one of us.

That he can come across a bit arrogant is true, thats what he is like in real life also, but you don't get where he is without a little of this.

We use him for promotional marketing and sales (we sell products with his name on) and whenever I've met him, he's constantly being harrassed for autographs and photos from slightly too old, should know better, 40 somethings women. When he sidled up next to me and we were introduced by my marketing director as a fellow petrolhead, he enthusiasticly moved me out of the way, fired up a webpage on my laptop and proceeded to show me the different verhicles he has and has had.

His arrogance and persona was stripped away pretty quickly and we had a good long natter before he had to run off and do another appearance.

As such, I can understand the arrogance claims, but he's very much just like one of us, coveting his pride and joys, and 'properly' driving them - sometimes making a mistake and perhaps causing it damage.

As it was, a dodgy valve seems to me to have caused the failure, and so I think we're being a little harsh on the blame.

But, alas, this is PH - we can't have someone who has made a bit of money for themselves enjoying themselves in a car they've always wanted, eh?

[Apache]

neil_bolton said:

Chaps, I can confirm, first hand, having shared a good half an hour with him wittering on about the finer workings of the Porsche Carrera GT and the slightly fragile clutch, that the guy is very much one of us.

Thats torn it......oh well, over to the Charley Boorman thread

[neil_bolton]

Apache said:

neil_bolton said:

Chaps, I can confirm, first hand, having shared a good half an hour with him wittering on about the finer workings of the Porsche Carrera GT and the slightly fragile clutch, that the guy is very much one of us.

Thats torn it......oh well, over to the Charley Boorman thread

I should have probably added that it was his Carrera GT, and it was his clutch he'd, erm, buggered

[ROADRUNNER3]

"As it was, a dodgy valve seems to me to have caused the failure, and so I think we're being a little harsh on the blame."

Paul Osborne of Cars International has the answer to that one - its a shame neither he nor James Martin are likely to come on here to defend themselves, and indeed why should they ?

[neil_bolton]

ROADRUNNER3 said:

"As it was, a dodgy valve seems to me to have caused the failure, and so I think we're being a little harsh on the blame."

Paul Osborne of Cars International has the answer to that one - its a shame neither he nor James Martin are likely to come on here to defend themselves, and indeed why should they ?

I might point out: Seems = My armchair opinion, with a mechanic uncle, and a Concorde engine senior engineer grandfather also sat watching all having a good muse over it.

We may well be wrong, but I though I'd point that bit out before anyone gets upset.

[Legion]

neil_bolton said:

I might point out: Seems = My armchair opinion...
..........We may well be wrong, but I though I'd point that bit out before anyone gets upset.

Hi,
Good that you met him, and you could formulate your own opinion about him. You say you noticed the arrogance but he was very enthusiastic about his car collection which you picked up on. Fine.

I highlighted your bit above, as that's the key. It's perception. You perceive alongwith with your co-watchers that it was a dodgy valve. Others here perceive that car ownership aside, he came across, as a person, not that well. That's fine. That's life. We all walk down the street and look at things, people, and make sometimes quick decisions on how we view it/them.

But this bit here:

"But, alas, this is PH - we can't have someone who has made a bit of money for themselves enjoying themselves in a car they've always wanted, eh?"

....is wrong. It's all over the internet and other forums where the James Martin Mille Miglia backlash is rather fierce. No-one here, I can glean, has any issue with his car collection or him 'enjoying' it. Their allergic reaction instead relates to his (edited, possibly) behaviour during the broadcast.

Anyway....how did he get into it? You walked up to him and in a split second he had his laptop on and straight onto his website showing you his great collection? Was there anything to make you think he'd read the 'publicity' around the show and may have used the opportunity to claw back some ground to anyone who'll listen? [For the record, I've stated earlier, that if he is that genuine in his love of cars etc - and I have no concrete reason to judge him either way - I'd imagine he'd want to do the show again, with proper editorial authority and really go into properly, the history, the cars, the contestants....as a real enthusiast would want to see on the telly......]

Edited by Legion on Friday 2nd January 16:25

Edited by Legion on Friday 2nd January 16:26