The real italian job
Discussion
Watched it today at work on iplayer.. Don't have sound on work PC so used subtitles..
I must say with subtitles, i didn't pick up on any 'cockish' behaviour.. Or crappy narrative..
I just saw an obvious petrolhead keen to live his own childhood dream.. Both his joy at acquiring the car , and the disappointment of failure seemed genuine and touching.
He has worked extremely hard to get where he is today, and i for one would wish him good luck if he tries again next year..
I must say with subtitles, i didn't pick up on any 'cockish' behaviour.. Or crappy narrative..
I just saw an obvious petrolhead keen to live his own childhood dream.. Both his joy at acquiring the car , and the disappointment of failure seemed genuine and touching.
He has worked extremely hard to get where he is today, and i for one would wish him good luck if he tries again next year..
jackal said:
TonyHetherington said:
Snoggledog said:
At the very real risk of re-igniting the earlier arguments, the BBC message board takes our arguments to a whole new level.
Although I wasn't too keen on the program and hoped it would deliver a bit more, some of the posters on the BBC seem to be more interested in James Martin than the actual race and what he was hoping to achieve.
BBC linky
Blimey, you're not wrong!Although I wasn't too keen on the program and hoped it would deliver a bit more, some of the posters on the BBC seem to be more interested in James Martin than the actual race and what he was hoping to achieve.
BBC linky
Strange there's been such a reaction to the programme against him personally (both here and that bbc board).
when there was no story (because of DNF) the production team changed the story to one about a well known TV chef and his personality... its edited to be a documentray about a celebrity rather than a race
i thought that was fairly obvious ?
Had it remained a programme more to do with the car and the race, would it have included expressions like, "...he'll be having a few choice words with the man who rebuilt his pistons..." ?
Rebuilt his pistons?
Edited by DickyC on Monday 29th December 19:37
medieval said:
How any of you can question James Martin's passion is beyond me when you saw how distraught he was when he could not finish the event.
The adverse comments must be borne of envy.
Jesus... is that really the level of your comprehension? His so-called passion is irrelevant.The adverse comments must be borne of envy.
Can you not understand that people didn't like the bloke himself (or at least, the way that he was presented by the editors) because of his apparent obnoxious attitude, his apparent chauvinism, apparent arrogance, and apparent lack of real understanding of either the car or the race, and not because he had a decent sum of money to spend on the car?
I took a dislike to him because of the program, whereas I haven't taken a dislike to other rich publicish petrolheads: Jay Kay, Nick Mason, Harry Metcalfe, Jay Leno, or indeed any of the other competitors in the Mille Miglia shown in the program.
Edited by mft on Monday 29th December 20:08
Just watched the program having not had the chance to last night - Started reading this thread hoping for an enthusiastic blow-by-blow account of others' view of the program as it unfolded, but gave up after the first few posts having realised that it had quickly become a vehicle for a bunch of spoilt Southerners to voice their distaste at a Northerner getting to do something that costs more than a sack of coal. Someone let me know if there are some posts by car enthusiasts in here and I might try again.
MitchT said:
Just watched the program having not had the chance to last night - Started reading this thread hoping for an enthusiastic blow-by-blow account of others' view of the program as it unfolded, but gave up after the first few posts having realised that it had quickly become a vehicle for a bunch of spoilt Southerners to voice their distaste at a Northerner getting to do something that costs more than a sack of coal. Someone let me know if there are some posts by car enthusiasts in here and I might try again.
Maybe they could do one of these shows about you and that big chip on your shoulder?
no_iamspartacus said:
Inside info time folks.....
He did not spend all of his money on 'it' (the car, to clarify) - it's a part MaseratiUK funded publicity exercise, effectively a 'rental' of a classic for the event.
James is a wealthy dedicated professional chef and minor TV celebrity, with a childlike obsession with the toys we all love (does not make him unique) but his wealth has afforded him priviledges long before appearing on TV. He is still a simple Yorkshireman at heart, and does not stray to far from his comfort zone - scripted he is very adept, 'live' he is typically gruff and to be honest, insecure.
Combine his somewhat hesitant nature, poor rapport with strangers in an alien 'expert' field, thin programme material and clumsy editing (what's the story - James, the car,which blonde, the event, success, failure?)and you get the resulting programme that missess all targets.
A dissapointing failure, more for the fact that its objective was to expand on the event - but with the 'talent' falling at the first hurdle it became a doomed venture. He was more embarassed for being a fish out of water with nowhere to hide than anything else.
Shame for the boy - but skin like a Rhino and someone elses money will see him back again....
Very well summed up.He did not spend all of his money on 'it' (the car, to clarify) - it's a part MaseratiUK funded publicity exercise, effectively a 'rental' of a classic for the event.
James is a wealthy dedicated professional chef and minor TV celebrity, with a childlike obsession with the toys we all love (does not make him unique) but his wealth has afforded him priviledges long before appearing on TV. He is still a simple Yorkshireman at heart, and does not stray to far from his comfort zone - scripted he is very adept, 'live' he is typically gruff and to be honest, insecure.
Combine his somewhat hesitant nature, poor rapport with strangers in an alien 'expert' field, thin programme material and clumsy editing (what's the story - James, the car,which blonde, the event, success, failure?)and you get the resulting programme that missess all targets.
A dissapointing failure, more for the fact that its objective was to expand on the event - but with the 'talent' falling at the first hurdle it became a doomed venture. He was more embarassed for being a fish out of water with nowhere to hide than anything else.
Shame for the boy - but skin like a Rhino and someone elses money will see him back again....
Have to say, I never realised running a restaurant could make so much money. If you've read his MoS column he winds up buying half the stuff he tests. Audi R8, yeah I like this, so i've ordered one etc. He even wrote about looking at the expensive (£300,000ish) yachts at the Boat Show. Next paragraph - "So i bought it and invited all my mates down one weekend"
The programme would have been far more interesting if it had been about the Thomason / Pool Alfa 8C 2300 sc entry, but my wishes do not necessarily make for popular TV.
I do wonder how the little Maserati ever passed scrutineering without a functioning RPM counter, and how the chef could ever have known where his safe engine speed threshold of 4500rpm was as a result. I suspect his engine builder may well point this out to him if he seeks recompense.
I do wonder how the little Maserati ever passed scrutineering without a functioning RPM counter, and how the chef could ever have known where his safe engine speed threshold of 4500rpm was as a result. I suspect his engine builder may well point this out to him if he seeks recompense.
MitchT said:
Just watched the program having not had the chance to last night - Started reading this thread hoping for an enthusiastic blow-by-blow account of others' view of the program as it unfolded, but gave up after the first few posts having realised that it had quickly become a vehicle for a bunch of spoilt Southerners to voice their distaste at a Northerner getting to do something that costs more than a sack of coal. Someone let me know if there are some posts by car enthusiasts in here and I might try again.
I don't see any anti-Northern stuff here 
TimJMS said:
I do wonder how the little Maserati ever passed scrutineering without a functioning RPM counter, and how the chef could ever have known where his safe engine speed threshold of 4500rpm was as a result. I suspect his engine builder may well point this out to him if he seeks recompense.
that was the first thing i noticed to...ditto re your thoughts.I have watched the programme live and read all the posts on here. Then watched the programme again on BBC iPlayer in case I missed something.
I am not sure what the PH collective was expecting but, as an experienced viewer and well aware of the BBC's general approach to motoring related programmes, we got exactly what I predicted to my OH would be served up.
You have to remember this was screened during prime time. It didn't have David Attenborough fronting it so there was no way the content was going to be particularly illuminating or seriously factual.
As an example of their poor research they couldn't even get Moss's 1955 winning average speed right. If they could have been bothered to ask Moss himself they might just have have managed it. Very poor show indeed.
The only bit I haven't yet come to a conclusion on is whether James Martin is incredibly naive or just wanted to boost his 'celebrity' profile.
I am not sure what the PH collective was expecting but, as an experienced viewer and well aware of the BBC's general approach to motoring related programmes, we got exactly what I predicted to my OH would be served up.
You have to remember this was screened during prime time. It didn't have David Attenborough fronting it so there was no way the content was going to be particularly illuminating or seriously factual.
As an example of their poor research they couldn't even get Moss's 1955 winning average speed right. If they could have been bothered to ask Moss himself they might just have have managed it. Very poor show indeed.
The only bit I haven't yet come to a conclusion on is whether James Martin is incredibly naive or just wanted to boost his 'celebrity' profile.
blueyes said:
Re: the roadbook
All the roadbooks I've used had a distance between notes/tulips.
You reset the trip after every tulip.
She had no trip or Terratrip so how did she manage it?
Is the roadbook different on the MM?
I thought you could see a Retrotrip glowing away under the clocks. They can take a bit of setting up sometimes and we didn't see any of that. fair play to the girl for having a go on the clocks though, not always easy if you haven't done it before. The Historic Rally Car Register run a couple of excellent and cheap (might even be free, can't quite recall now) navigation courses twice a year which both crew members would have benefited from.All the roadbooks I've used had a distance between notes/tulips.
You reset the trip after every tulip.
She had no trip or Terratrip so how did she manage it?
Is the roadbook different on the MM?
TonyHetherington said:
Increasingly more so, yes. I don't want to say the immortal words "it's not like it used to be", or anything like that, but what shocked me so much was that last night, while REALLY enjoying the program I thought "oooo, I'll enjoy it with PH" (something I don't normally do, but with a new internet phone I thought I would) and the first posts I saw were the first 5 or 6 of the thread (which I quoted above), which riled me and surprised me in equal unpleasant measure.
I haven't got a problem with the chef per se, but enthusiasm is one thing and bulls
t is something else entirely. he was a genuine enthusiast but the prog was made by bullstters. It's not just the sheer laziness with regard to accuracy that troubles me, it's the sheer arrogance of everybody in TV land who thinks i'm a thick chav, when in actual fact sometimes, just sometimes, i know more than them. Like a few million other classic car fans do too. That's my problem with progs like that.unclefester said:
A couple of things I'm surprised about....why would a car which has 'competed' in what is essentially a fun-run, be worth more than the same car which hasn't?
I understand the added cachet of a proper competition history, and the Mille Miglia WAS a race at one point so anything which had competed in it then would certainly trumpet the fact, but I really don't see why a car which has tooled around Italy as part of a mobile Pebble Beach should be 'worth' much more than the same car which had stayed at home.....
It's because the car gains you access to events in which you otherwise wouldn't be able to gain entry. It's become a common thing nowadays i would say, whereby the events the car is eligible for is more important very often than it's history.I understand the added cachet of a proper competition history, and the Mille Miglia WAS a race at one point so anything which had competed in it then would certainly trumpet the fact, but I really don't see why a car which has tooled around Italy as part of a mobile Pebble Beach should be 'worth' much more than the same car which had stayed at home.....
Last p;oint, someone made a comment re the Noel Edmunds prog with the Panoz at le Mans. Whilst searching for the Moss on the MM Retro tape that i knew i had once, i found my recording of the Panoz film. My recollection of that was that it was a good prog, but i'll enjoy seeing it again to make sure.
Most people didn't like the programme. Most people didn't think the chef came across as one of the good guys. Only 1 or 2 appeared to be jealous, most of us have the utmost respect for succesful enthiusiasts living their dreams.
If thats what you like to spend time doing, make sure you get facts straight please.
Feckin 'ell... wish I hadent grumbled about topgear now
Oh and I may have commented that ‘This toff is being fleeced’ … that was a tongue in cheek remark and an observation.
However:
I'm not happy with the way this thread evolved, and I wasn’t impressed with the production of documentary at all. BUT how one man wants to spend his ‘hard earned’ is totally upto him, even better if hes spending it on a glorious piece of motoring history.
I’m surrounded by friends that waste thousands on classics – its their money and they certainly eccentric, but jealousy is NOT one of my traits – I love the fact this country is made up of people that enjoy throwing cash at crazy projects… on the whole they are some of the most entertaining people you could hope to meet as well.
I simply wouldn’t have done it the way JM did – what he did was ludicrous!!
If it was his passion, then he was ill informed and badly prepared –
If it was a business venture… well it was crazy… A fool and his money are easily Maserati’ed
….but I hope the making of the documentary and the media exposure serves him well (I’m sure it has).
Just because something is badly produced, biased or a bit of a let-down doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy it on a different level… it certainly stirred up a bit of reaction here… that’s not always a bad thing is it? (I’m not including the idiotic name calling and back-biting between PH members in that statement though)Get my facts straight? How does this not relate to my comment "Didn't like the way James came across in the programme:"
"it did seem a bit cringeworthy"
"what he did was ludicrous!!"
"This toff is being fleeced"
"he was ill informed and badly prepared"
"A fool and his money are easily Maserati’ed"
"How much did he pay for the rebuild.. ???"
I took that to mean you didn't think the programme made him look good/competent? If I misunderstood, I apologize.
With or without you, when I summarised it last night, a couple of dozen people said the programme was bad, or the chef came across in a bad light.
I found four people who were angry about their opinions.
Since then, more people have given a negative comment than positive.
That's just statistics. I really don't understand how this thread got so 'heated'???
Steamer said:
Ordinary Bloke said:
Cast in order of appearance:
Didn't like the way James came across in the programme:....
Steamer....
Whats this please? You are Pistonhead's 'thread summariser' now?Didn't like the way James came across in the programme:....
Steamer....
If thats what you like to spend time doing, make sure you get facts straight please.
Steamer said:
To be honest it did seem a bit cringeworthy after totally rebuilding a 600K car... then make an arse of the graphics and scrawl on the dash…
Steamer said:
Feckin 'ell... wish I hadent grumbled about topgear now
However:
I'm not happy with the way this thread evolved, and I wasn’t impressed with the production of documentary at all. BUT how one man wants to spend his ‘hard earned’ is totally upto him, even better if hes spending it on a glorious piece of motoring history.
I’m surrounded by friends that waste thousands on classics – its their money and they certainly eccentric, but jealousy is NOT one of my traits – I love the fact this country is made up of people that enjoy throwing cash at crazy projects… on the whole they are some of the most entertaining people you could hope to meet as well.
I simply wouldn’t have done it the way JM did – what he did was ludicrous!!
If it was his passion, then he was ill informed and badly prepared –
If it was a business venture… well it was crazy… A fool and his money are easily Maserati’ed
….but I hope the making of the documentary and the media exposure serves him well (I’m sure it has).
Just because something is badly produced, biased or a bit of a let-down doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy it on a different level… it certainly stirred up a bit of reaction here… that’s not always a bad thing is it? (I’m not including the idiotic name calling and back-biting between PH members in that statement though)
"it did seem a bit cringeworthy"
"what he did was ludicrous!!"
"This toff is being fleeced"
"he was ill informed and badly prepared"
"A fool and his money are easily Maserati’ed"
crmcatee said:
Contrary to Ordinary blokes comment above about me not liking how James came across.
I can't see how this question on page 2 makes any reference to James ?
"would you run it in or thrash the nuts off it"I can't see how this question on page 2 makes any reference to James ?
crmcatee said:
with this classic an engine would you run it in or thrash the nuts off it in a race when it's just been rebuilt.
How much did he pay for the rebuild.. ???
Unless I'm missing something.How much did he pay for the rebuild.. ???
"How much did he pay for the rebuild.. ???"
I took that to mean you didn't think the programme made him look good/competent? If I misunderstood, I apologize.
With or without you, when I summarised it last night, a couple of dozen people said the programme was bad, or the chef came across in a bad light.
I found four people who were angry about their opinions.
Since then, more people have given a negative comment than positive.
That's just statistics. I really don't understand how this thread got so 'heated'???
Whilst I do agree James comes across rather badly in the programme I am genuinely surprised at how naive he appears to be & his lack of basic mechanical knowlege considering his car collection.
However I enjoyed the programme just to look at the metal on show also when he said "Those last 120 miles was the best moment of my life" just proved he is a real petrolhead at heart & that what counts for me ....
Lucky bugger !
However I enjoyed the programme just to look at the metal on show also when he said "Those last 120 miles was the best moment of my life" just proved he is a real petrolhead at heart & that what counts for me ....
Lucky bugger !
I actually quite enjoyed the programme and for those who haven't seen it, it is worth watching.
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but have seen plenty of posts expressing a disliking for James Martin.
To be honest, I didn't think he was that bad. Agreed in some instances he was annoying but all in all he seemed ok. I like the fact he has a genuine passion for cars and motorsport. Anyone who puts their heart and soul into as much as he did can't be that bad surely?
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but have seen plenty of posts expressing a disliking for James Martin.
To be honest, I didn't think he was that bad. Agreed in some instances he was annoying but all in all he seemed ok. I like the fact he has a genuine passion for cars and motorsport. Anyone who puts their heart and soul into as much as he did can't be that bad surely?
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