Clarkson’s Farm

[48k]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

It's easy for the facts to get lost in the melee but just to call it out - JC put in _two_ appeals against the council. Appeal A was against the enforcement notice issued by the council, Appeal B was against the refusal to grant planning permission to extend the parking area and create a new storage compound.
Appeal A succeeded in part, but otherwise failed and the enforcement notice is to be upheld as corrected.
Appeal B succeeded subject to conditions.

So it wasn't a complete slam dunk for JC (which I think it came across as in the programme).

It's very nuanced, and worth a read of the 28 page appeal decisions document to try and comprehend what has been decided.

[Dave200]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

[TheDeuce]

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

It was of course dressed up for TV. But I think there is a wider issue with councils being unimaginative and 'computer says no'.

There is an order in place to ensure local supply only to the shop - and the shop is busy not just causing traffic problems, but busy selling produce, in addition to trinkets. It's employing local people, selling local produce from other local farms and attracting tourism to other local tourist enterprises.

The village may be a sleepy place, nestled in the countryside, but that's only been the case because that countryside is actually working farms... And now, farms have to work slightly differently. The village and council have to accept that if they expect the farmers to continue to maintain and operate the 99% of their land which will remain as lovely countryside.

[Dave200]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

It was of course dressed up for TV. But I think there is a wider issue with councils being unimaginative and 'computer says no'.

There is an order in place to ensure local supply only to the shop - and the shop is busy not just causing traffic problems, but busy selling produce, in addition to trinkets. It's employing local people, selling local produce from other local farms and attracting tourism to other local tourist enterprises.

The village may be a sleepy place, nestled in the countryside, but that's only been the case because that countryside is actually working farms... And now, farms have to work slightly differently. The village and council have to accept that if they expect the farmers to continue to maintain and operate the 99% of their land which will remain as lovely countryside.

All of which may be true, but it required the council to take a gamble that once Clarkson was done with filming or bored with farming the place wouldn't suddenly become a white elephant. Councils, particularly those in small, rural hamlets, don't like gambling.

[romft123]

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

People driving miles to go to a celebs shop to buy some overpriced pap..........weird.

[Red9zero]

romft123 said:

People driving miles to go to a celebs shop to buy some overpriced pap..........weird.

We went last year as we were staying 10 minutes down the road. It was school term time and we arrived 10 mins before opening, so probably queued for 15 mins max, which was probably my limit. The stock is overpriced, but not much more so than every other Cotswold farm shop. Glad I went, not sure I'd bother again though.

[98elise]

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

It's not in Chadlington though, and there is a fairly big A road passing it which doesn't go through Chadlington.

Not having adequate parking causes problems on the smaller road the access is on.

[TheDeuce]

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

FiF said:

Dave200 said:

I can't imagine the combination of boredom and celeb adulation that would lead me to visit the farm shop, and that's said as someone who really enjoyed the series.

With a regular drive down the A44 heading towards let's say Wallingford area can't even think the mile or so diversion would even be up for consideration, personally. Doesn't make the council view correct or reasonable.

But the council planning process for a small farm shop and food truck (which is what it fundamentally is) doesn't make allowances for major tourist attractions. I suspect they are asking for several multiples of the space and amenities that similar farm shops have asked for or required. It's like trying to force a square peg into the rigid, round hole of local council planning.

Indeed. And now the square peg has won, and the round hole has been reshaped to fit it.

Which was absolutely the right result in the end, but it's quite easy to see why the original request was denied.

I agree, I can see why it was denied initially, based on the system and habits in place. But I also think that it's poor of councillors to have taken such stance and to not have taken into account the wider issues. It's not impossible to imagine an alternative universe where a councillor realised the potential positive impact on the local area, the wider industry and how planning is judged, and could have made it a pilot scheme.

The end result is the same either way, the only difference is that the council now look like a bunch of ineffective, short sighted, miserable, melts.

The problem is that there wasn't really scope for "potential positive impact on the local area", which is largely why the point was rejected.

Chadlington is a sleepy, one-street/one-horse kind of town. It's mostly residential, and has two shops and a small pub. Any potential benefit to these local services would be far outweighed by the strain it would put on local facilities to deal with hundreds of weirdos turning up every weekend for a few years to take photos of a farm shop.

Clarkson and co did a very good job of painting what was a quite sensible decision by the council as NIMBYism, and social media did the predictable thing.

It was of course dressed up for TV. But I think there is a wider issue with councils being unimaginative and 'computer says no'.

There is an order in place to ensure local supply only to the shop - and the shop is busy not just causing traffic problems, but busy selling produce, in addition to trinkets. It's employing local people, selling local produce from other local farms and attracting tourism to other local tourist enterprises.

The village may be a sleepy place, nestled in the countryside, but that's only been the case because that countryside is actually working farms... And now, farms have to work slightly differently. The village and council have to accept that if they expect the farmers to continue to maintain and operate the 99% of their land which will remain as lovely countryside.

All of which may be true, but it required the council to take a gamble that once Clarkson was done with filming or bored with farming the place wouldn't suddenly become a white elephant. Councils, particularly those in small, rural hamlets, don't like gambling.

Well not really. If the shop failed one day, the 'problems' are gone.

It would either become a different enterprise or the land would be returned to growing crops.

In The end, the council did gamble. They gambled that the strength of their decision making process would stand up to mass outside scrutiny. It didn't, and No10 didn't like it either.

[Dave200]

TheDeuce said:

Well not really. If the shop failed one day, the 'problems' are gone.

It would either become a different enterprise or the land would be returned to growing crops.

In The end, the council did gamble. They gambled that the strength of their decision making process would stand up to mass outside scrutiny. It didn't, and No10 didn't like it either.

There shouldn't need to be "outside scrutiny" on council decisions, that's why councils exist. Like I said, on balance it seems like the right decision was made in the end, but that doesn't mean the initial rejection was fundamentally wrong.

[Dave200]

98elise said:

It's not in Chadlington though, and there is a fairly big A road passing it which doesn't go through Chadlington.

Not having adequate parking causes problems on the smaller road the access is on.

Right, but Chadlington is the nearest place with any amenities. The impact of hundreds of weirdos descending on Chadlington every weekend would be fairly severe, and I absolutely agree with the council for taking this into account.

[TheDeuce]

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Well not really. If the shop failed one day, the 'problems' are gone.

It would either become a different enterprise or the land would be returned to growing crops.

In The end, the council did gamble. They gambled that the strength of their decision making process would stand up to mass outside scrutiny. It didn't, and No10 didn't like it either.

There shouldn't need to be "outside scrutiny" on council decisions, that's why councils exist. Like I said, on balance it seems like the right decision was made in the end, but that doesn't mean the initial rejection was fundamentally wrong.

There's always outside scrutiny of council decisions, it's just that usually not enough people care and those that do eventually get bored. That has lead to a culture of unprogressive thinking by councillors. The moment the entire process was paid bare in front of millions, it was a complete embarrassment.

[Dave200]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

TheDeuce said:

Well not really. If the shop failed one day, the 'problems' are gone.

It would either become a different enterprise or the land would be returned to growing crops.

In The end, the council did gamble. They gambled that the strength of their decision making process would stand up to mass outside scrutiny. It didn't, and No10 didn't like it either.

There shouldn't need to be "outside scrutiny" on council decisions, that's why councils exist. Like I said, on balance it seems like the right decision was made in the end, but that doesn't mean the initial rejection was fundamentally wrong.

There's always outside scrutiny of council decisions, it's just that usually not enough people care and those that do eventually get bored. That has lead to a culture of unprogressive thinking by councillors. The moment the entire process was paid bare in front of millions, it was a complete embarrassment.

Like I said, I'm more on the fence. I don't think it's irrational for a council to refuse to bend the planning system for a glorified tourist attraction next to a village of 800 people, which may not hang around more than a couple of years.

[CardinalBlue]

bloomen said:

Dave200 said:

Were it a normal farm shop, this would be fairly close to the truth in my experience. Instead it's a "farm shop" which attracts a load of weirdos who want to queue up for 45 minutes just to browse a fairly mediocre shop in the hope that they catch a glimpse of the back of Caleb's head.

Asking the council to make allowances for the latter is wildly outside of the norm of what they deal with (or want) in a quiet rural hamlet, so hardly surprising that they said no.

You could earn yourself some Twitter death threats with that attitude.

Pretty funny reading the Tripadvisor reviews. It sounds like an overwhelmingly pointless trip with a large dollop of incredible hassle.

On a good day there'll be a few pots of this and that and everything else has to be bought online. And definitely no sign of the stars.

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

[Dave200]

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

[Red9zero]

CardinalBlue said:

bloomen said:

Dave200 said:

Were it a normal farm shop, this would be fairly close to the truth in my experience. Instead it's a "farm shop" which attracts a load of weirdos who want to queue up for 45 minutes just to browse a fairly mediocre shop in the hope that they catch a glimpse of the back of Caleb's head.

Asking the council to make allowances for the latter is wildly outside of the norm of what they deal with (or want) in a quiet rural hamlet, so hardly surprising that they said no.

You could earn yourself some Twitter death threats with that attitude.

Pretty funny reading the Tripadvisor reviews. It sounds like an overwhelmingly pointless trip with a large dollop of incredible hassle.

On a good day there'll be a few pots of this and that and everything else has to be bought online. And definitely no sign of the stars.

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

There is a Facebook group for it too, which is very entertaining. Some of the questions are blatantly trolls, but there are some genuine nutters who are basing their whole holiday around visiting and spending stupid amounts buying everything they can do.

[TheDeuce]

Dave200 said:

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

They're not free, their time is consumed by celeb gossip fed to them by the media with such intensity that their weak minds start to think it must all be important.

I'll happily argue that the farm shop should be allowed and that if course the celebrity attachment is fantastic for marketing it. But I can't begin to understand why a person would go significantly out of their way to be there.

If a person enjoys the TV show and they like the support it lends to farming then... they should go to their local farm shop and markets!! That's by far the best way to support any positive effects the TV show can have.

[FiF]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

They're not free, their time is consumed by celeb gossip fed to them by the media with such intensity that their weak minds start to think it must all be important.

I'll happily argue that the farm shop should be allowed and that if course the celebrity attachment is fantastic for marketing it. But I can't begin to understand why a person would go significantly out of their way to be there.

If a person enjoys the TV show and they like the support it lends to farming then... they should go to their local farm shop and markets!! That's by far the best way to support any positive effects the TV show can have.

Certainly agree with the last paragraph. As for celebrity I can't understand why people buy those gossip magazines and the like.

We're all different. People go to , say, Cleethorpes for holidays, their choice, but wouldn't dream of talking about and denigrating them in the manner many have discussed JC's customers on here.

[48k]

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

They're not free, their time is consumed by celeb gossip fed to them by the media with such intensity that their weak minds start to think it must all be important.

I'll happily argue that the farm shop should be allowed and that if course the celebrity attachment is fantastic for marketing it. But I can't begin to understand why a person would go significantly out of their way to be there.

If a person enjoys the TV show and they like the support it lends to farming then... they should go to their local farm shop and markets!! That's by far the best way to support any positive effects the TV show can have.

The place has become a tourist attraction but not a leisure attraction in planning terms, as the planning inspector concluded. He uses the example of Harrods - "customers visit Harrods from all over the world because of its reputation, they may purchase goods as a result of the visit, they may simply stand outside the closed store and take a ‘selfie’ but Harrods remains a retail store.". The Farm Shop has become a victim of the success of the TV show so it seems reasonable that the appeal which part succeeded has a condition limiting the changes to the next three years since once the TV show ends, even with repeats it could be the case that the tourist interest in the shop declines.

[TheDeuce]

48k said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

They're not free, their time is consumed by celeb gossip fed to them by the media with such intensity that their weak minds start to think it must all be important.

I'll happily argue that the farm shop should be allowed and that if course the celebrity attachment is fantastic for marketing it. But I can't begin to understand why a person would go significantly out of their way to be there.

If a person enjoys the TV show and they like the support it lends to farming then... they should go to their local farm shop and markets!! That's by far the best way to support any positive effects the TV show can have.

The place has become a tourist attraction but not a leisure attraction in planning terms, as the planning inspector concluded. He uses the example of Harrods - "customers visit Harrods from all over the world because of its reputation, they may purchase goods as a result of the visit, they may simply stand outside the closed store and take a ‘selfie’ but Harrods remains a retail store.". The Farm Shop has become a victim of the success of the TV show so it seems reasonable that the appeal which part succeeded has a condition limiting the changes to the next three years since once the TV show ends, even with repeats it could be the case that the tourist interest in the shop declines.

I imagine that a decade after the show ends, the farm shop would simply be an above average busy farm shop, but not a totally overwhelmed farm shop. It would still make sense - there will always be a farm there..

And in that future, ironically, it will no doubt actually be a better farm shop.

[Dave200]

FiF said:

TheDeuce said:

Dave200 said:

CardinalBlue said:

I just had a quick look and it's mad... people saying they drove for fours hours and then waited for two or three hours to get in!

These people need to take a long, hard look at how they spend their free time.

They're not free, their time is consumed by celeb gossip fed to them by the media with such intensity that their weak minds start to think it must all be important.

I'll happily argue that the farm shop should be allowed and that if course the celebrity attachment is fantastic for marketing it. But I can't begin to understand why a person would go significantly out of their way to be there.

If a person enjoys the TV show and they like the support it lends to farming then... they should go to their local farm shop and markets!! That's by far the best way to support any positive effects the TV show can have.

Certainly agree with the last paragraph. As for celebrity I can't understand why people buy those gossip magazines and the like.

We're all different. People go to , say, Cleethorpes for holidays, their choice, but wouldn't dream of talking about and denigrating them in the manner many have discussed JC's customers on here.

Anyone driving 4 hours to queue for a small, poorly-stocked farm shop in the hope of seeing the back of Caleb's head deserves to be denigrated.