Automotive Vloggers (Vol. 5)
Discussion
I had no idea Boreham Motorworks was owned by the Darren/JWW group they've set up.
News out recently that they're working on a modern RS200 and MK1 Escort with blessings from Ford. Pretty big coup for them by the sounds of it
For anyone that missed it: https://borehammotorworks.com/
News out recently that they're working on a modern RS200 and MK1 Escort with blessings from Ford. Pretty big coup for them by the sounds of it
For anyone that missed it: https://borehammotorworks.com/
LincolnLovin said:
I hope a YouTuber buys this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156271216887 bit too much for my channel atm 
Sorry but that's an utter shed. Cat D, needs belts, hasn't moved in 6 years. Overpriced at £20k. bristolbaron said:
Tindersticks said:
Personal comments are off limits IMO. Same for partners etc. play the ball and not the man.
Could we clarify whether ‘personal comments’ includes a YouTubers shirt collection? 
crosseyedlion said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
My take on Misha, is that he is guilty of a loss of concentration whilst driving on track. Both in races and the laps in other peoples cars. I’ve seen may of his videos and when there is an incident you can see it unfolding before he appears to. I think familiarity has led to some complacency. I also think that occasionally he is not looking far enough ahead.
If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
I think he probably is over-familiar and also has half a mind on making good content chasing down lots of cars. Most accidents happen within a few miles from home - something like that. With proper discipline the above wouldn't really be an issue. But he may have got a bit too casual.If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
Watch the Kevin Estre passenger lap in the GT3 RS. Actually driving the car is using probably 10% of his conscious brain capacity which means he is totally relaxed and capable of dealing with traffic, looking at the track conditions and having a conversation with the passenger. I sometimes feel like Misha has seen these videos and thinks they're 'cool' and tries to recreate it/act like it's all super easy for him, but clearly it isn't!
RacerMike said:
crosseyedlion said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
My take on Misha, is that he is guilty of a loss of concentration whilst driving on track. Both in races and the laps in other peoples cars. I’ve seen may of his videos and when there is an incident you can see it unfolding before he appears to. I think familiarity has led to some complacency. I also think that occasionally he is not looking far enough ahead.
If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
I think he probably is over-familiar and also has half a mind on making good content chasing down lots of cars. Most accidents happen within a few miles from home - something like that. With proper discipline the above wouldn't really be an issue. But he may have got a bit too casual.If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
Watch the Kevin Estre passenger lap in the GT3 RS. Actually driving the car is using probably 10% of his conscious brain capacity which means he is totally relaxed and capable of dealing with traffic, looking at the track conditions and having a conversation with the passenger. I sometimes feel like Misha has seen these videos and thinks they're 'cool' and tries to recreate it/act like it's all super easy for him, but clearly it isn't!
A) A very talented driver who's learned to drive fast through racing, making a trackay look relatively easy (to the point of giving a running commentary on a 7.04 lap)
and
B) A moderately talented driver, who drives fast on TF days, but finds his limitations quickly when it gets tricky
The lap I'm referencing, for context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Lrlqz3z_0
Dave200 said:
RacerMike said:
crosseyedlion said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
My take on Misha, is that he is guilty of a loss of concentration whilst driving on track. Both in races and the laps in other peoples cars. I’ve seen may of his videos and when there is an incident you can see it unfolding before he appears to. I think familiarity has led to some complacency. I also think that occasionally he is not looking far enough ahead.
If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
I think he probably is over-familiar and also has half a mind on making good content chasing down lots of cars. Most accidents happen within a few miles from home - something like that. With proper discipline the above wouldn't really be an issue. But he may have got a bit too casual.If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
Watch the Kevin Estre passenger lap in the GT3 RS. Actually driving the car is using probably 10% of his conscious brain capacity which means he is totally relaxed and capable of dealing with traffic, looking at the track conditions and having a conversation with the passenger. I sometimes feel like Misha has seen these videos and thinks they're 'cool' and tries to recreate it/act like it's all super easy for him, but clearly it isn't!
A) A very talented driver who's learned to drive fast through racing, making a trackay look relatively easy (to the point of giving a running commentary on a 7.04 lap)
and
B) A moderately talented driver, who drives fast on TF days, but finds his limitations quickly when it gets tricky
The lap I'm referencing, for context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Lrlqz3z_0
Dave200 said:
RacerMike said:
crosseyedlion said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
My take on Misha, is that he is guilty of a loss of concentration whilst driving on track. Both in races and the laps in other peoples cars. I’ve seen may of his videos and when there is an incident you can see it unfolding before he appears to. I think familiarity has led to some complacency. I also think that occasionally he is not looking far enough ahead.
If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
I think he probably is over-familiar and also has half a mind on making good content chasing down lots of cars. Most accidents happen within a few miles from home - something like that. With proper discipline the above wouldn't really be an issue. But he may have got a bit too casual.If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
Watch the Kevin Estre passenger lap in the GT3 RS. Actually driving the car is using probably 10% of his conscious brain capacity which means he is totally relaxed and capable of dealing with traffic, looking at the track conditions and having a conversation with the passenger. I sometimes feel like Misha has seen these videos and thinks they're 'cool' and tries to recreate it/act like it's all super easy for him, but clearly it isn't!
A) A very talented driver who's learned to drive fast through racing, making a trackay look relatively easy (to the point of giving a running commentary on a 7.04 lap)
and
B) A moderately talented driver, who drives fast on TF days, but finds his limitations quickly when it gets tricky
The lap I'm referencing, for context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Lrlqz3z_0
It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 14:06
snoopy25 said:
Dave200 said:
RacerMike said:
crosseyedlion said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
My take on Misha, is that he is guilty of a loss of concentration whilst driving on track. Both in races and the laps in other peoples cars. I’ve seen may of his videos and when there is an incident you can see it unfolding before he appears to. I think familiarity has led to some complacency. I also think that occasionally he is not looking far enough ahead.
If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
I think he probably is over-familiar and also has half a mind on making good content chasing down lots of cars. Most accidents happen within a few miles from home - something like that. With proper discipline the above wouldn't really be an issue. But he may have got a bit too casual.If I was to have a word with him I’d ask him to concentrate all the time whatever he is driving and focus on looking as far down the road as possible all the time.
It really is the basics, the speed of a professional driver is there but the discipline is not.
Watch the Kevin Estre passenger lap in the GT3 RS. Actually driving the car is using probably 10% of his conscious brain capacity which means he is totally relaxed and capable of dealing with traffic, looking at the track conditions and having a conversation with the passenger. I sometimes feel like Misha has seen these videos and thinks they're 'cool' and tries to recreate it/act like it's all super easy for him, but clearly it isn't!
A) A very talented driver who's learned to drive fast through racing, making a trackay look relatively easy (to the point of giving a running commentary on a 7.04 lap)
and
B) A moderately talented driver, who drives fast on TF days, but finds his limitations quickly when it gets tricky
The lap I'm referencing, for context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Lrlqz3z_0
Meanwhile, Mischa gets a load of smoke blown up his backside for overtaking loads of ditherers in a really powerful car on a single TF lap.
It's not even in the same ballpark in talent terms, so it's hardly surprising that Mischa comes unstuck when it gets tricky.
Edited by Dave200 on Tuesday 25th June 14:07
Dave200 said:
That's because it is (relatively) easy for him. His 'normal' way of driving on track is to do that kind of pace, lap after lap, all while also having to think about attacking/defending the cars around him (all of which are similar machinery, being driven by talented drivers).
Meanwhile, Mischa gets a load of smoke blown up his backside for overtaking loads of ditherers in a really powerful car on a single TF lap.
It's not even in the same ballpark in talent terms, so it's hardly surprising that Mischa comes unstuck when it gets tricky.
Basically it takes Estre 30% of his consciousness to drive a GT3 RS at 80% of its ultimate pace and Misha 90% of his consciousness to drive at 60% of the cars pace.Meanwhile, Mischa gets a load of smoke blown up his backside for overtaking loads of ditherers in a really powerful car on a single TF lap.
It's not even in the same ballpark in talent terms, so it's hardly surprising that Mischa comes unstuck when it gets tricky.
Edited by Dave200 on Tuesday 25th June 14:07
RacerMike said:
Yup! Exactly my point. You see it with the AM drivers in British GT al the time too. See lap 1 of last weekends race at Spa for an example...
It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Not withstanding that Kevin does exactly that in the linked vid when the GT3 cuts across as Kevin is lining up to pass down the inside (then waves a hand in mild annoyance) It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 14:06
There's a massive difference between a trackday, like Kevin is doing, where the car in front is entitled to take the racing line so you can't just pass wherever and TF where the car in front isn't entitled to take a racing line unless there are no approaching overtaking cars. I keep seeing people saying 'barreling up the inside" for TF - there's no such thing, its essentially a one way dual carriage way the whole way round, keep right at all times, if you want to take a racing line the onus is on you to make sure nothing is approaching that may 'barrel up the inside'.
honda_exige said:
RacerMike said:
Yup! Exactly my point. You see it with the AM drivers in British GT al the time too. See lap 1 of last weekends race at Spa for an example...
It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Not withstanding that Kevin does exactly that in the linked vid when the GT3 cuts across as Kevin is lining up to pass down the inside (then waves a hand in mild annoyance) It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 14:06
There's a massive difference between a trackday, like Kevin is doing, where the car in front is entitled to take the racing line so you can't just pass wherever and TF where the car in front isn't entitled to take a racing line unless there are no approaching overtaking cars. I keep seeing people saying 'barreling up the inside" for TF - there's no such thing, its essentially a one way dual carriage way the whole way round, keep right at all times, if you want to take a racing line the onus is on you to make sure nothing is approaching that may 'barrel up the inside'.
I know you keep jumping to Mishas defense but it’s an odd hill to die on. A number of people with a lot more experience than him have all commented that he needs to change his approach to overtaking and driving on track/TF days. What’s the point in trying to disagree with that? The only reason people are getting vocal about it is because he hasn’t learnt and they (including me) are concerned he’s going to injure someone or worse. And the fact you can’t see the issue is also part of the problem as he’s normalising the lack of judgement he displays. Absolutely no offence meant to you as I’m sure you’re a better track driver than he is, but I just don’t get the defence. We should absolutely call out people like Misha and Joe Achilles for doing things wrong!
And as for ‘barrelling up the inside’ check 12:50 onwards. No lift, no pause. Absolute commitment to trying to go up the inside of a much slower car without any indication the guy has seen him. If only he’d learnt from this, he may not have hit the back of that Aston last weekend:
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 15:00
RacerMike said:
The fact that you can’t see the difference between the two approaches means it’s pointless going into the minutiae of why Estre is justified in his confusion there. And it’s a moot point anyway given the fact that the issue is not the reaction but the approach to traffic. The hand wave may or may not be justified there for Estre. The fact is, he wasn’t alongside the car, halfway up the grass going ‘huh’ like Misha so often is.
I know you keep jumping to Mishas defense but it’s an odd hill to die on. A number of people with a lot more experience than him have all commented that he needs to change his approach to overtaking and driving on track/TF days. What’s the point in trying to disagree with that? The only reason people are getting vocal about it is because he hasn’t learnt and they (including me) are concerned he’s going to injure someone or worse. And the fact you can’t see the issue is also part of the problem as he’s normalising the lack of judgement he displays. Absolutely no offence meant to you as I’m sure you’re a better track driver than he is, but I just don’t get the defence. We should absolutely call out people like Misha and Joe Achilles for doing things wrong!
And as for ‘barrelling up the inside’ check 12:50 onwards. No lift, no pause. Absolute commitment to trying to go up the inside of a much slower car without any indication the guy has seen him. If only he’d learnt from this, he may not have hit the back of that Aston last weekend:
I get what you're saying I really do but to me the example you gave is 100% fault on the Peugeot as I was saying - the Peugeot changed lanes with no appreciation whatsoever of approaching traffic, indeed was going so slowly it had no need to take the racing line. I know you keep jumping to Mishas defense but it’s an odd hill to die on. A number of people with a lot more experience than him have all commented that he needs to change his approach to overtaking and driving on track/TF days. What’s the point in trying to disagree with that? The only reason people are getting vocal about it is because he hasn’t learnt and they (including me) are concerned he’s going to injure someone or worse. And the fact you can’t see the issue is also part of the problem as he’s normalising the lack of judgement he displays. Absolutely no offence meant to you as I’m sure you’re a better track driver than he is, but I just don’t get the defence. We should absolutely call out people like Misha and Joe Achilles for doing things wrong!
And as for ‘barrelling up the inside’ check 12:50 onwards. No lift, no pause. Absolute commitment to trying to go up the inside of a much slower car without any indication the guy has seen him. If only he’d learnt from this, he may not have hit the back of that Aston last weekend:
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 15:00
If it was a trackday Misha would be in the wrong but it isn't, it's TF.
Of course you could say 'I'd rather be slow and alive rather than correct and dead' but that's a risk for the driver to judge.
You see it on the derestricted Autobahns too, some people are happy at 180mph with a 100mph delta between you and a singular car in the right lane but you are trusting that the singular car will follow the law and keep right, that's your risk to take or not. Some people of course will prefer to not overtake anyone at large deltas and that's fine, it's up to you.
My friend is one of the slowest drivers around and I've been introducing him to TF - my absolute rule to him is never ever take the racing line ( because he's neither experienced or fast enough), keep right absolutely. He's done multiple laps TF on his own with nary a close call despite having a btg closer to 15minutes than 10 lol.
Interesting take on the new channels form after people leave the big ones. All common sense stuff but good to hear it from someone behind the scenes rather than someone in front of the camera, where you do wonder if a small part of them going alone is because they see themselves as the star of the channel.
Edited by WilsonWilson on Tuesday 25th June 17:37
Edited by WilsonWilson on Tuesday 25th June 17:38
honda_exige said:
I get what you're saying I really do but to me the example you gave is 100% fault on the Peugeot as I was saying - the Peugeot changed lanes with no appreciation whatsoever of approaching traffic, indeed was going so slowly it had no need to take the racing line.
Cool. But as the faster car approaching the slower one, you have all the information literally in front of you. He can claim rules and regulations until the cows come home but it won’t uncrash the car.Having raced several times in multiclass racing, sometime with huge offsets in performance, you’re the master of your own destiny as the approaching car and regardless of the pedantries of TF ‘rules’ the fact is that good drivers don’t crash. Least of all 10 times in 6 months many with a common cause….contact with another slower car whilst overtaking. Put yourself in the seat or the slower car. Would you be staring in your mirror as you turn into the apex expecting the car that was a dot 3 seconds ago to be on your inside? I’d say that even a very experienced driver would struggle to judge the approaching speed of a car behind in a mirror without literally staring in it for several seconds….plus you’d also assume they don’t have a death wish. The fire rule of multiclass racing as a slower class of car is to just stick to your racing line. The faster drivers can more easily work out where you’re going. So in this instance the Peugeot did quite literally the right thing. He’s likely a good driver in a slower car…so why would he be driving all the way round the outside of the track any more than Misha should be driving on the left the whole time?
RacerMike said:
honda_exige said:
RacerMike said:
Yup! Exactly my point. You see it with the AM drivers in British GT al the time too. See lap 1 of last weekends race at Spa for an example...
It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Not withstanding that Kevin does exactly that in the linked vid when the GT3 cuts across as Kevin is lining up to pass down the inside (then waves a hand in mild annoyance) It's interesting watching the Estre video again as his first interaction with the first bit of traffic in Hatzenbach is a prime example of someone who's capable and considered. He lifts quite early. Waits to see what the guy does, then makes a clear and confident pass on them once it's clear what he's doing. Misha by comparison has a habit of barrelling up to the back of someone way too fast, fires it up the inside of them before it's clear what they're doing and then waves his hands in anger at the 'terrible driving' from the car in front when it nearly turns across him...
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 14:06
There's a massive difference between a trackday, like Kevin is doing, where the car in front is entitled to take the racing line so you can't just pass wherever and TF where the car in front isn't entitled to take a racing line unless there are no approaching overtaking cars. I keep seeing people saying 'barreling up the inside" for TF - there's no such thing, its essentially a one way dual carriage way the whole way round, keep right at all times, if you want to take a racing line the onus is on you to make sure nothing is approaching that may 'barrel up the inside'.
I know you keep jumping to Mishas defense but it’s an odd hill to die on. A number of people with a lot more experience than him have all commented that he needs to change his approach to overtaking and driving on track/TF days. What’s the point in trying to disagree with that? The only reason people are getting vocal about it is because he hasn’t learnt and they (including me) are concerned he’s going to injure someone or worse. And the fact you can’t see the issue is also part of the problem as he’s normalising the lack of judgement he displays. Absolutely no offence meant to you as I’m sure you’re a better track driver than he is, but I just don’t get the defence. We should absolutely call out people like Misha and Joe Achilles for doing things wrong!
And as for ‘barrelling up the inside’ check 12:50 onwards. No lift, no pause. Absolute commitment to trying to go up the inside of a much slower car without any indication the guy has seen him. If only he’d learnt from this, he may not have hit the back of that Aston last weekend:
Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 25th June 15:00
You and many others here have already made it clear you think he's a bad driver and I think we all get it, but the constant pile-on is quite tiresome
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff