Harry's Garage - YouTube

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Olivera

8,104 posts

254 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
The piston speed is not a problem on this engine, as it's short stroked - 83 mm. For heads to flow better, there are solutions already on the market.
You can spend 50 grand on the engine with the other major Lotus tuner, JUBU:https://www.jubu-performance.com/en/shop/part-jubu_exigeevora3eleven_600-2186

So 50 grand gets you a fully built 600bhp engine with a 7300/400 rev limit. Every single piece of evidence points towards not being able to rev this engine reliably past much beyond 7000rpm without spending absolutely colossal amounts of money.

ArgonautX

287 posts

66 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
paralla said:
But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.
that's true, and I'm not really blaming the engine... Emira failed for various reasons, engine not being one of them. It's good enough.

paralla

4,589 posts

150 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
paralla said:
But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.
that's true, and I'm not really blaming the engine... Emira failed for various reasons, engine not being one of them. It's good enough.
I guess I have higher expectations of an engine in an £80K sports car. I want it to be spectacular rather than “good enough”.

ArgonautX

287 posts

66 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
Olivera said:
You can spend 50 grand on the engine with the other major Lotus tuner, JUBU:https://www.jubu-performance.com/en/shop/part-jubu_exigeevora3eleven_600-2186

So 50 grand gets you a fully built 600bhp engine with a 7300/400 rev limit. Every single piece of evidence points towards not being able to rev this engine reliably past much beyond 7000rpm without spending absolutely colossal amounts of money.
you can spend a lot less than that and build a naturally aspirated 2GR-FE that makes close to 400 whp(wheels, not crank) and revs to 8000 rpm. it's been done. Obviously, nobody makes any guarantees on it, but it's been done by multiple people. The basic engine is very good.

ArgonautX

287 posts

66 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
paralla said:
I guess I have higher expectations of an engine in an £80K sports car. I want it to be spectacular rather than “good enough”.
Which new cars can you buy today for 80K that have a spectacular engine? I mean, I can only remember Boxter/Cayman 4.0, but a new model is on it's way and it's dubious whether you'll still be able to buy a 4.0 at 80K.

Olivera

8,104 posts

254 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
you can spend a lot less than that and build a naturally aspirated 2GR-FE that makes close to 400 whp(wheels, not crank) and revs to 8000 rpm. it's been done. Obviously, nobody makes any guarantees on it, but it's been done by multiple people. The basic engine is very good.
It struggles beyond 7000rpm in a supercharged application. The end.

thegreenhell

19,390 posts

234 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
Porsche mass produce their sportscars. Nobody with Lotus' numbers can afford a bespoke engine or gearbox, so you're always going to be 'lumbered' with a the limited choices offered by a crate setup at that price point.

DuncanM

6,878 posts

294 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
NA Evora ~30k, tune to rev to 8krpm = yes please!

paralla

4,589 posts

150 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
Which new cars can you buy today for 80K that have a spectacular engine? I mean, I can only remember Boxter/Cayman 4.0, but a new model is on it's way and it's dubious whether you'll still be able to buy a 4.0 at 80K.
Who says it has to be new? Harry’s replacement sports car wasn’t new. There are plenty of cars out there with a more charachterful engine gearbox combination.

ArgonautX

287 posts

66 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
DuncanM said:
NA Evora ~30k, tune to rev to 8krpm = yes please!
the gearbox might make that impossible on the Evora. As it was the gearbox originally made for the diesel Auris, I believe it is close to its limits already in the stock Evora (revs wise)

skwdenyer

18,215 posts

255 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
RSTurboPaul said:
skwdenyer said:
sisu said:
Yes, the reasons why he fell out of love with Lotus is going to have a long, long tail for them.

Given that he was invited to London to bring his yellow Elise, the whole walk around the factory, signatures from the lads who built it. Handshake and a wave goodbye from the staff as he collected his car at the factory. As one person noted, its all a bit of a kick in the teeth for Lotus.
To give some alternative context this would be like Harry trading in his 2 year old launch edition sports car that he had all of the hoopla above to privately buy a 6 year old Lotus Evora 410.

TBH I am waiting for a car event he can attend where he does not get a prize.

Its a great win for McLaren given that they did not have a history with Harry.
Given Harry’s well-documented consulting gigs with JLR & entirely unrelated heavy featuring / lauding of their product on-screen, perhaps Lotus simply a missed a trick in not hiring him for his product development expertise?
Are you suggesting Harry is financially influenced by JLR to provide good reviews?
I'm saying that Harry's likelihood of liking a car / brand is likely to be influenced by how much he's been involved in (and listened to during) the development of same; the personal relationships he's formed with the people involved; the general sense of being listened to. I'm also saying that Harry's reviews of JLR competitor products have often seemed a lot more negative than others'.

It is public knowledge that Harry was a paid consultant to JLR.

RichardHMorris

498 posts

105 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
Surprised Harry sold a car with known provenance and his own history, for a used and thrashed - albeit very good - car.

We test drove one and loved it but the prices were already increasing significantly and delivery periods still many months so didn't order one.

Now, you can only order one of their "pre-configured" ones yet they're still quoting a 4 - 6 week delivery period and a £90,000+ price tag.

Except for that money I'd want the touring chassis, dark red paint and light grey seats with a V6 and some convenience nonsense. "No, Sir".

My mind boggles.

Maybe buying a low mileage one in the mid-sixties might actually be a better option?

E90_M3Ross

36,176 posts

227 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
RichardHMorris said:
Surprised Harry sold a car with known provenance and his own history, for a used and thrashed - albeit very good - car.

We test drove one and loved it but the prices were already increasing significantly and delivery periods still many months so didn't order one.

Now, you can only order one of their "pre-configured" ones yet they're still quoting a 4 - 6 week delivery period and a £90,000+ price tag.

Except for that money I'd want the touring chassis, dark red paint and light grey seats with a V6 and some convenience nonsense. "No, Sir".

My mind boggles.

Maybe buying a low mileage one in the mid-sixties might actually be a better option?
I think it's fair to say that most supercars have been driven hard. He'll get a warranty so what exactly are you worried about RE being driven hard? Would you never buy a car that's been on track?

Mezzanine

10,139 posts

234 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
Ken_Code said:
Mezzanine said:
We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.
So a bloke in a pub told you it's all made-up?
If there is a pub at Hethel, then sure…

rolleyes

carl_w

9,853 posts

273 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
Mezzanine said:
If there is a pub at Hethel, then sure…

rolleyes
The Bird in Hand and the Worlds End are both local

E90_M3Ross

36,176 posts

227 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
paralla said:
ArgonautX said:
paralla said:
But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.
that's true, and I'm not really blaming the engine... Emira failed for various reasons, engine not being one of them. It's good enough.
I guess I have higher expectations of an engine in an £80K sports car. I want it to be spectacular rather than “good enough”.
Are there many £80k sports cars that have "spectacular" engines? Porsche 4.0 Cayman? Spectacular? Maybe. Any others?

The Surveyor

7,607 posts

252 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
h0b0 said:
Uncle Meat said:
I know Harry said he's swapping the tyres, but I'm surprised the dealer was happy to sell a car with 8 year old tyres...unless that was part of the negotiations.
I thought it interesting when Harry said Charlie did the negotiations. Maybe Harry was sold on the car and would have just said "Take my money".
Harry said he’s doing a Pirelli event soon, leaving on the old tyres works well for a tyre test and future content.

sisu

2,850 posts

188 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
RSTurboPaul said:
skwdenyer said:
sisu said:
Yes, the reasons why he fell out of love with Lotus is going to have a long, long tail for them.

Given that he was invited to London to bring his yellow Elise, the whole walk around the factory, signatures from the lads who built it. Handshake and a wave goodbye from the staff as he collected his car at the factory. As one person noted, its all a bit of a kick in the teeth for Lotus.
To give some alternative context this would be like Harry trading in his 2 year old launch edition sports car that he had all of the hoopla above to privately buy a 6 year old Lotus Evora 410.

TBH I am waiting for a car event he can attend where he does not get a prize.

Its a great win for McLaren given that they did not have a history with Harry.
Given Harry’s well-documented consulting gigs with JLR & entirely unrelated heavy featuring / lauding of their product on-screen, perhaps Lotus simply a missed a trick in not hiring him for his product development expertise?
Are you suggesting Harry is financially influenced by JLR to provide good reviews?
I'm saying that Harry's likelihood of liking a car / brand is likely to be influenced by how much he's been involved in (and listened to during) the development of same; the personal relationships he's formed with the people involved; the general sense of being listened to. I'm also saying that Harry's reviews of JLR competitor products have often seemed a lot more negative than others'.

It is public knowledge that Harry was a paid consultant to JLR.
I agree. I find anyone who buys a Jaguar F-Pace SVR odd, i like finding out, other than the looks why they bought it. He even Man mathed the Diesel Range Rover for the troops.

But this "Hawk Thau" of the Green McLaren 750S on the last trip to France made the Emira seem a bit beige.

740EVTORQUES

980 posts

16 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
h0b0 said:
Uncle Meat said:
I know Harry said he's swapping the tyres, but I'm surprised the dealer was happy to sell a car with 8 year old tyres...unless that was part of the negotiations.
I thought it interesting when Harry said Charlie did the negotiations. Maybe Harry was sold on the car and would have just said "Take my money".
Harry said he’s doing a Pirelli event soon, leaving on the old tyres works well for a tyre test and future content.
Tyres over a certain age really should be an automatic MOT fail, even if there are no obvious cracks etc.


Regarding the 650s, at £80k it makes sense but over £100k like some of the higher spec spiders it’s awfully close to 458s and even 488s.

Doofus

30,655 posts

188 months

Monday 24th June 2024
quotequote all
sisu said:
"Hawk Thau"
Forgive me. I've tried, but I have no clue what this means.