Harry's Garage - YouTube

[ArgonautX]

paralla said:

Letting it rev higher and sound better is what would give it the character it lacks. Nobody is saying it needs more power. It needs more personality.

It needed Lotus, that is Geely, to invest a bit more and put, ideally, a longitudinal mid engine in the Emira or less ideally, a different gearbox that can handle more revs/torque.
But, obviously, it's hard(er) to make a business case for that.

[keo]

paralla said:

Letting it rev higher and sound better is what would give it the character it lacks. Nobody is saying it needs more power. It needs more personality.

I seam to be the only one that things the engine has character. But mine is an Exige 410. Is the engine that much different to the one in the emira?

[otolith]

paralla said:

otolith said:

Ah, this one for the Exige?

https://www.komo-tec.com/en/Phase-EX4-550-Mehrleis...

It's making 550bhp, I'm not sure that investing in making it rev higher is really necessary!

Letting it rev higher and sound better is what would give it the character it lacks. Nobody is saying it needs more power. It needs more personality.

He's saying that the Komotec EUR21k tuning package only revs to 7400 so it can't rev higher - I'm suggesting that Komotec don't rev it higher because they don't need to.

Komotec do have valve springs on their website which they say are good for 8000rpm with titanium valves.

As for Lotus - if the market positioning says 400bhp, requiring 8000rpm to get that from 3.5 supercharged litres would invite accusations of crap engineering. 400bhp from a high revving naturally aspirated engine would certainly give it more character, but would be a slower car, probably substantially slower than the I4. Either way, much more expensive than sticking a blower on something straight from Toyota.

[ettore]

keo said:

paralla said:

Letting it rev higher and sound better is what would give it the character it lacks. Nobody is saying it needs more power. It needs more personality.

I seam to be the only one that things the engine has character. But mine is an Exige 410. Is the engine that much different to the one in the emira?

I agree, I had one in my Exige and thought it was a fabulous thing that sounded wonderful. Surely, it can't be that different?

[ArgonautX]

keo said:

I seam to be the only one that things the engine has character. But mine is an Exige 410. Is the engine that much different to the one in the emira?

I don't mind the engine at all... but several things have conspired against it, chiefly Emira weighs more than Evora(or Exige), but makes no more power(again, gearbox limitations). And the direct competitor has a really good 4 liter NA flat 6.

[thegreenhell]

Don't forget that Lotus are an OEM , and any internal engine mods will have to be warranted, as well as adding greatly to the cost over and above a crate engine and gearbox. Maybe they could have developed a higher revving NA engine with longitudinal gearbox, but it would have cost a whole lot more than an Emira to buy and put the car up against much tougher price opposition.

[paralla]

ArgonautX said:

keo said:

I seam to be the only one that things the engine has character. But mine is an Exige 410. Is the engine that much different to the one in the emira?

I don't mind the engine at all... but several things have conspired against it, chiefly Emira weighs more that Evora(or Exige), but makes no more power(again, gearbox limitatuons). And the direct competitor has a really good 4 liter NA flat 6.

This ^.

I’ve been lucky enough to have a few Porsche GT cars where the engine is unquestionably the star of the show.

The styling is the star of the Emira show.

[Olivera]

otolith said:

He's saying that the Komotec EUR21k tuning package only revs to 7400 so it can't rev higher - I'm suggesting that Komotec don't rev it higher because they don't need to.

If the engine could rev higher reliably then they would rev it higher, it's as simple as that. It's highly likely there is a fundamental problem revving it higher, such as excessive piston speed or the cylinder head just can't flow enough air.

[ArgonautX]

Olivera said:

If the engine could rev higher reliably then they would rev it higher, it's as simple as that. It's highly likely there is a fundamental problem revving it higher, such as excessive piston speed or the cylinder head just can't flow enough air.

The piston speed is not a problem on this engine, as it's short stroked - 83 mm. For heads to flow better, there are solutions already on the market.

[paralla]

ArgonautX said:

Olivera said:

If the engine could rev higher reliably then they would rev it higher, it's as simple as that. It's highly likely there is a fundamental problem revving it higher, such as excessive piston speed or the cylinder head just can't flow enough air.

The piston speed is not a problem on this engine, as it's short stroked - 83 mm. For heads to flow better, there are solutions already on the market.

But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.

[Olivera]

ArgonautX said:

The piston speed is not a problem on this engine, as it's short stroked - 83 mm. For heads to flow better, there are solutions already on the market.

You can spend 50 grand on the engine with the other major Lotus tuner, JUBU:https://www.jubu-performance.com/en/shop/part-jubu_exigeevora3eleven_600-2186

So 50 grand gets you a fully built 600bhp engine with a 7300/400 rev limit. Every single piece of evidence points towards not being able to rev this engine reliably past much beyond 7000rpm without spending absolutely colossal amounts of money.

[ArgonautX]

paralla said:

But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.

that's true, and I'm not really blaming the engine... Emira failed for various reasons, engine not being one of them. It's good enough.

[paralla]

ArgonautX said:

paralla said:

But the solutions aren’t in the engine that Lotus puts in the Emira.

that's true, and I'm not really blaming the engine... Emira failed for various reasons, engine not being one of them. It's good enough.

I guess I have higher expectations of an engine in an £80K sports car. I want it to be spectacular rather than “good enough”.

[ArgonautX]

Olivera said:

You can spend 50 grand on the engine with the other major Lotus tuner, JUBU:https://www.jubu-performance.com/en/shop/part-jubu_exigeevora3eleven_600-2186

So 50 grand gets you a fully built 600bhp engine with a 7300/400 rev limit. Every single piece of evidence points towards not being able to rev this engine reliably past much beyond 7000rpm without spending absolutely colossal amounts of money.

you can spend a lot less than that and build a naturally aspirated 2GR-FE that makes close to 400 whp(wheels, not crank) and revs to 8000 rpm. it's been done. Obviously, nobody makes any guarantees on it, but it's been done by multiple people. The basic engine is very good.

[ArgonautX]

paralla said:

I guess I have higher expectations of an engine in an £80K sports car. I want it to be spectacular rather than “good enough”.

Which new cars can you buy today for 80K that have a spectacular engine? I mean, I can only remember Boxter/Cayman 4.0, but a new model is on it's way and it's dubious whether you'll still be able to buy a 4.0 at 80K.

[Olivera]

ArgonautX said:

you can spend a lot less than that and build a naturally aspirated 2GR-FE that makes close to 400 whp(wheels, not crank) and revs to 8000 rpm. it's been done. Obviously, nobody makes any guarantees on it, but it's been done by multiple people. The basic engine is very good.

It struggles beyond 7000rpm in a supercharged application. The end.

[thegreenhell]

Porsche mass produce their sportscars. Nobody with Lotus' numbers can afford a bespoke engine or gearbox, so you're always going to be 'lumbered' with a the limited choices offered by a crate setup at that price point.

[DuncanM]

NA Evora ~30k, tune to rev to 8krpm = yes please!

[paralla]

ArgonautX said:

Which new cars can you buy today for 80K that have a spectacular engine? I mean, I can only remember Boxter/Cayman 4.0, but a new model is on it's way and it's dubious whether you'll still be able to buy a 4.0 at 80K.

Who says it has to be new? Harry’s replacement sports car wasn’t new. There are plenty of cars out there with a more charachterful engine gearbox combination.

[ArgonautX]

DuncanM said:

NA Evora ~30k, tune to rev to 8krpm = yes please!

the gearbox might make that impossible on the Evora. As it was the gearbox originally made for the diesel Auris, I believe it is close to its limits already in the stock Evora (revs wise)