Harry's Garage - YouTube

[durbster]

Ken_Code said:

durbster said:

Yeah you're right, there's little room for sentiment if there's money to be made. If somebody told me that in 15 years we'd see the Lotus badge on some dull, 5 door family estates I could believe it. It happened with MG after all.

I can’t imagine a firm like Lotus getting involved with something like a Vauxhall Carlton.

I'm not sure anyone would describe the Lotus Carlton as a dull family car.

[Ken_Code]

durbster said:

I'm not sure anyone would describe the Lotus Carlton as a dull family car.

It was before Lotus got involved though.

[WPA]

Ken_Code said:

durbster said:

I'm not sure anyone would describe the Lotus Carlton as a dull family car.

It was before Lotus got involved though.

I think your completely overlooking the GSI3000 24v which at the time was highly praised against rivals.

[Unreal]

E90_M3Ross said:

Unreal said:

E90_M3Ross said:

Unreal said:

I've started the process of selling seven or eight cars and replacing them with two. I like the idea of a Mclaren so will be following his experience with interest. I don't deal well with unreliability. I can put up with odd glitches such as a radio or mirror not working or a hard to trace rattle; in fact with some cars they can be enjoyable to fix, but I don't do breakdowns and I suspect glitches on cars like the 650S are invariably tricky fixes.. Nor will I put up with stupid expensive maintenance requirements when usage is low. Thorney seem to have a very food reputation but I don't want a car that forces me to regularly make use of that reputation.

I know through Porsche ownership that internet hype can be unrepresentative of ownership so we'll see how Harry's car performs against the negative rep that gets touted.

The problem with this, however, is that it is just one car, and also that I suspect his annual mileage will be fairly low. If he keeps it 2-3 years, I suspect it'll do less than 5k miles.

That would not be far off what I would expect. So in such a case, assuming the car is freshly serviced at the time of purchase, what would be the need for another two or three annual services? Service what exactly?

You're asking the wrong person there I'd assume oil and brake fluid at least. Perhaps coolant as well, as fluids will have a life span, not just mileage span. Obviously an inspection of parts etc.

In two years, from a starting point of fresh oil, brake fluid and coolant? Not a chance any of those liquids would significantly deteriorate with a mileage of less than 5K miles unless it was made up of a majority of track days. As for the inspection of parts, tick box exercise which ime is far less useful than a proper MOT.

[durbster]

Ken_Code said:

durbster said:

I'm not sure anyone would describe the Lotus Carlton as a dull family car.

It was before Lotus got involved though.

I'm not talking about Lotus taking somebody else's product and tuning it. They've always done that - it would be totally on brand.

I'm talking about them simply becoming another manufacturer of every day, affordable, competent family cars and no sporting credentials whatsoever. Just as happened with MG, as I said.

[Mezzanine]

skwdenyer said:

Mezzanine said:

I’m not sure Geely really cares all that much. It’s essentially two separate companies with one based in Norfolk and one based in China.

The Norfolk branch is a legacy that is nearing its end.

It doesn’t really matter if the next generation of product has a ‘Lotus’ feel or not to be honest. As long as their electric stuff sells around the world, the Emira is really a minor distraction.

Geely should really make sure the Hethel stuff is beyond reproach. If they want a Porsche-like strategy, the profitable MPVs need to be underpinned by cast iron desirability for the sports cars.

There is nothing beyond Emira for the sports cars.

[Quags]

If Harry was replacing the Emira for a car of the same value/range then I'd be concerned.

But lobbing another £50k into the equation does change things somewhat.

Really disappointed at the comments regarding Lotus, but - I tend to agree in the main.

My Elise Sprint seems to be one of the last great Lotus it seems.

I do hope they bring out another edition of the Emira, it just needs more poke I feel.

[Ken_Code]

Quags said:

If Harry was replacing the Emira for a car of the same value/range then I'd be concerned.

But lobbing another £50k into the equation does change things somewhat.

Really disappointed at the comments regarding Lotus, but - I tend to agree in the main.

My Elise Sprint seems to be one of the last great Lotus it seems.

I do hope they bring out another edition of the Emira, it just needs more poke I feel.

The inline four may well be capable of quite a lot more power than the V6 currently has.

[Speed 3]

ChocolateFrog said:

Original owner got his wallet reamed over all those carbon trinkets.

The original owner was the MSO Marketing department, Harry knew the car from his press days, so I doubt they reamed themselves. First secondhand owner may have got a (relative to book price) bargain like Harry.

[otolith]

Mezzanine said:

There is nothing beyond Emira for the sports cars.

Eh?

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...

[ChocolateFrog]

Speed 3 said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Original owner got his wallet reamed over all those carbon trinkets.

The original owner was the MSO Marketing department, Harry knew the car from his press days, so I doubt they reamed themselves. First secondhand owner may have got a (relative to book price) bargain like Harry.

Good point.

I guess the trade off for a very expensive spec is the knowledge that its been ragged by a 100 journalists.

[Olivera]

ChocolateFrog said:

I'm struggling to think of anything the Lotus would do better than the 650

The Emira (at least on paper) does the analogue sports car bit (manual gearbox and traditional locking rear diff) better than the 650.

Wheel Turned Out said:

To be fair he did also preface it by saying after the novelty wore off there weren't many times when it was the obvious car for him to take for a drive

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget and/or had to cut back the production cars due to ballooning costs. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

[DonkeyApple]

Mezzanine said:

I’m not sure Geely really cares all that much. It’s essentially two separate companies with one based in Norfolk and one based in China.

The Norfolk branch is a legacy that is nearing its end.

It doesn’t really matter if the next generation of product has a ‘Lotus’ feel or not to be honest. As long as their electric stuff sells around the world, the Emira is really a minor distraction.

I think that's a fair assessment. Norfolk will probably only exist in ten years time if Lotus manages the move upmarket and can sell some more exotic sports cars that need to be built in the U.K. to underpin their pricing etc.

But the Emira is a very good car and despite being a victim of the post Covid collapse of the crazy, short lived trend of everyone putting money down for anything new and gambling on making a quick turn, it's still looking like it will sell in numbers far higher than anything they've previously managed.

[Mezzanine]

otolith said:

Mezzanine said:

There is nothing beyond Emira for the sports cars.

Eh?

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...

We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.

[Ken_Code]

Olivera said:

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

I don't like the V6 engine. It doesn't feel "lively", which for me is down to the slow-revving nature of it, the shape of the torque curve, and the low rev limit.

I also didn't like the sound.

Taken together this meant that the car felt slower than it really was, with a less responsive throttle than I would like.

I was extremely happy with how it drove, how comfortable it was, with the perveived build quality, and with how it looked.

[greenarrow]

Isebac said:

Very exciting! Just wish the video also included at least some driving. But oh well, will have to wait a bit for that.

The 650S is a great car, and a great steal. The 12C and the 650S are some of the best supercar bargains at the moment. The price of the options just shows what a complete vanity it is to get a highly specced car. 73k in options, and a few years later they don't even add 20k to the base price. And a lot of them arguably make the car look worse. Overall, though, I think the spec is pretty nice.

Look forward to watching this later. A few weeks ago I predicted this could be Harry's choice on this thread, saying that I could quite see Harry getting an early McLaren as he is also so enthusiastic about them in his reviews and the depreciation is largely done. I did think it would be a 12C though, but the 650S is possibly even more of a bargain....

[Ken_Code]

Mezzanine said:

We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.

So a bloke in a pub told you it's all made-up?

[Wheel Turned Out]

Olivera said:

Wheel Turned Out said:

To be fair he did also preface it by saying after the novelty wore off there weren't many times when it was the obvious car for him to take for a drive

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

I think he did by comparing it to the other cars he mentioned he'd take instead; it's not enough of an event like the Countach, it's not cosseting and comfortable like the Rolls, and it's not as involving or direct as his little Elan. The McLaren is much more of an event, but a better driving one than the Countach, and will likely better justify its place in the garage.

If you didn't happen to have a garage full of other classics I think the Emira would probably do very nicely as a jack of all trades (possibly master of none).

[Smollet]

greenarrow said:

Look forward to watching this later. A few weeks ago I predicted this could be Harry's choice on this thread, saying that I could quite see Harry getting an early McLaren as he is also so enthusiastic about them in his reviews and the depreciation is largely done. I did think it would be a 12C though, but the 650S is possibly even more of a bargain....

Given its performance and how much you’d have to spend with another marque to achieve the same, I’d say bargain is a bit of an understatement

[Olivera]

Ken_Code said:

I don't like the V6 engine. It doesn't feel "lively", which for me is down to the slow-revving nature of it, the shape of the torque curve, and the low rev limit.

I also didn't like the sound.

Taken together this meant that the car felt slower than it really was, with a less responsive throttle than I would like.

I was extremely happy with how it drove, how comfortable it was, with the perveived build quality, and with how it looked.

Cheers.

The engine is an interesting one, I recall EVO car of the year in about 2014 had an Evora 400, they loved the car but stated they engine had reached about the end of the road for competitiveness versus rivals. Yet 10 years later Lotus launched the Emira with same engine? I'm not sure what went wrong, perhaps it still seemed a reasonable choice for a car priced at the much touted £59,995, but at £85k people start asking questions.