Harry's Garage - YouTube

[ChocolateFrog]

Speed 3 said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Original owner got his wallet reamed over all those carbon trinkets.

The original owner was the MSO Marketing department, Harry knew the car from his press days, so I doubt they reamed themselves. First secondhand owner may have got a (relative to book price) bargain like Harry.

Good point.

I guess the trade off for a very expensive spec is the knowledge that its been ragged by a 100 journalists.

[Olivera]

ChocolateFrog said:

I'm struggling to think of anything the Lotus would do better than the 650

The Emira (at least on paper) does the analogue sports car bit (manual gearbox and traditional locking rear diff) better than the 650.

Wheel Turned Out said:

To be fair he did also preface it by saying after the novelty wore off there weren't many times when it was the obvious car for him to take for a drive

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget and/or had to cut back the production cars due to ballooning costs. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

[DonkeyApple]

Mezzanine said:

I’m not sure Geely really cares all that much. It’s essentially two separate companies with one based in Norfolk and one based in China.

The Norfolk branch is a legacy that is nearing its end.

It doesn’t really matter if the next generation of product has a ‘Lotus’ feel or not to be honest. As long as their electric stuff sells around the world, the Emira is really a minor distraction.

I think that's a fair assessment. Norfolk will probably only exist in ten years time if Lotus manages the move upmarket and can sell some more exotic sports cars that need to be built in the U.K. to underpin their pricing etc.

But the Emira is a very good car and despite being a victim of the post Covid collapse of the crazy, short lived trend of everyone putting money down for anything new and gambling on making a quick turn, it's still looking like it will sell in numbers far higher than anything they've previously managed.

[Mezzanine]

otolith said:

Mezzanine said:

There is nothing beyond Emira for the sports cars.

Eh?

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...

We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.

[Ken_Code]

Olivera said:

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

I don't like the V6 engine. It doesn't feel "lively", which for me is down to the slow-revving nature of it, the shape of the torque curve, and the low rev limit.

I also didn't like the sound.

Taken together this meant that the car felt slower than it really was, with a less responsive throttle than I would like.

I was extremely happy with how it drove, how comfortable it was, with the perveived build quality, and with how it looked.

[greenarrow]

Isebac said:

Very exciting! Just wish the video also included at least some driving. But oh well, will have to wait a bit for that.

The 650S is a great car, and a great steal. The 12C and the 650S are some of the best supercar bargains at the moment. The price of the options just shows what a complete vanity it is to get a highly specced car. 73k in options, and a few years later they don't even add 20k to the base price. And a lot of them arguably make the car look worse. Overall, though, I think the spec is pretty nice.

Look forward to watching this later. A few weeks ago I predicted this could be Harry's choice on this thread, saying that I could quite see Harry getting an early McLaren as he is also so enthusiastic about them in his reviews and the depreciation is largely done. I did think it would be a 12C though, but the 650S is possibly even more of a bargain....

[Ken_Code]

Mezzanine said:

We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.

So a bloke in a pub told you it's all made-up?

[Wheel Turned Out]

Olivera said:

Wheel Turned Out said:

To be fair he did also preface it by saying after the novelty wore off there weren't many times when it was the obvious car for him to take for a drive

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

I think he did by comparing it to the other cars he mentioned he'd take instead; it's not enough of an event like the Countach, it's not cosseting and comfortable like the Rolls, and it's not as involving or direct as his little Elan. The McLaren is much more of an event, but a better driving one than the Countach, and will likely better justify its place in the garage.

If you didn't happen to have a garage full of other classics I think the Emira would probably do very nicely as a jack of all trades (possibly master of none).

[Smollet]

greenarrow said:

Look forward to watching this later. A few weeks ago I predicted this could be Harry's choice on this thread, saying that I could quite see Harry getting an early McLaren as he is also so enthusiastic about them in his reviews and the depreciation is largely done. I did think it would be a 12C though, but the 650S is possibly even more of a bargain....

Given its performance and how much you’d have to spend with another marque to achieve the same, I’d say bargain is a bit of an understatement

[Olivera]

Ken_Code said:

I don't like the V6 engine. It doesn't feel "lively", which for me is down to the slow-revving nature of it, the shape of the torque curve, and the low rev limit.

I also didn't like the sound.

Taken together this meant that the car felt slower than it really was, with a less responsive throttle than I would like.

I was extremely happy with how it drove, how comfortable it was, with the perveived build quality, and with how it looked.

Cheers.

The engine is an interesting one, I recall EVO car of the year in about 2014 had an Evora 400, they loved the car but stated they engine had reached about the end of the road for competitiveness versus rivals. Yet 10 years later Lotus launched the Emira with same engine? I'm not sure what went wrong, perhaps it still seemed a reasonable choice for a car priced at the much touted £59,995, but at £85k people start asking questions.

[Sway]

Mezzanine said:

otolith said:

Mezzanine said:

There is nothing beyond Emira for the sports cars.

Eh?

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...

We’ll see.

I heard this from ‘sources close to the company’ shall we say.

There's named quotes and press release materials in that article...

It would certainly seem they're planning such a thing - and potentially with Geely money, showing a bunch of potential future models might not be as daft as the Bahar days.

[Purso]

Interesting point, what is Harrys newest supercar? He has the testarossa and countach but these are decades older. I am struggling to think what he has that offers similar performance barring the p8 which is very quick but still a 4 door car.

Wheel Turned Out said:

I think he did by comparing it to the other cars he mentioned he'd take instead; it's not enough of an event like the Countach, it's not cosseting and comfortable like the Rolls, and it's not as involving or direct as his little Elan. The McLaren is much more of an event, but a better driving one than the Countach, and will likely better justify its place in the garage.

If you didn't happen to have a garage full of other classics I think the Emira would probably do very nicely as a jack of all trades (possibly master of none).

[Ken_Code]

Olivera said:

Cheers.

The engine is an interesting one, I recall EVO car of the year in about 2014 had an Evora 400, they loved the car but stated they engine had reached about the end of the road for competitiveness versus rivals. Yet 10 years later Lotus launched the Emira with same engine? I'm not sure what went wrong, perhaps it still seemed a reasonable choice for a car priced at the much touted £59,995, but at £85k people start asking questions.

Because I ordered it on the day that orders opened I didn't get a chance to try it first, and hadn't really given the engine much thought. After all, if Lotus managed to make a 1.6 litre K series so much fun I assumed they could do something similar with a decently-sized V6.

I don't realy have the language to describe what it s that I wanted, and that this didn't have, but there was no "zing."

I had exactly the same experience with a Honda ADV 750 motorbike. The engine there s apparently based on half of a Honda Jazz's engine, and it felt it. No interest in revving, no feeling of growing pace or acceleration, just something out of sigh underneath me making the bike go.

It's not only about the rev celing eiher. My R1200GS doesn't exactly have a high redline, but it does feel like it wants to charge towards the one that it has. I don't understand how and why the Emira's engine doesn't.

[Pistom]

I suspect Harry got caught up with the excitement of the Emira launch and who can blame him.

But, he's had a bit of use out of it and he's sensible about the number of cars he owns so perfectly understandable that he'd get shut once the sparkle started to dim.

For £50K extra he's certainly got great value.

It will be interesting to watch his ownership experience which we can be sure will be reported honestly without much if any YouTube presenters BS or spin.

Great content is guaranteed to be on its way.

[DuncanM]

Olivera said:

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget and/or had to cut back the production cars due to ballooning costs. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

I'd love an Emira, everything I want in a sports car, a gorgeous car, and with Toyota running gear, a realistic future ownership prospect for me. I also hate the idea of losing the tactile pleasure of a manual gearbox, and so in that respect, it's more appealing than the 650S.

Mclaren ownership would require me to be at a much higher price point than I am now, a dream car sure, but it comes with dream car financial responsibilities.

[ntiz]

Obviously I don’t know Harry but I get the impression he was in the mindset like me where the resurgence of Lotus was really exciting to see and wanted to be a part of it.

I had an Emira on order and legitimately saw myself becoming an all Lotus household in this decade. But then Lotus did a spectacular job of repeatedly fire bombing any good will I had for them.

To the point when I eventually got a test drive, it wasn’t totally knockout amazing I cancelled it. Putting Lotus on my list of companies not to bother with in the future.

It since becoming clear the EVs have very little to do with Hethal just reinforces that. I just don’t think Lotus are becoming the company we all hoped they would be under Geely. Which kind of sours the Emira from being the beginning of a great future of Hethal designed cars to the symbol of when it all changed in many ways for the worse. Although I’m sure they will be vastly more successful than previously.

[Ken_Code]

DuncanM said:

I'd love an Emira, everything I want in a sports car, a gorgeous car, and with Toyota running gear, a realistic future ownership prospect for me. I also hate the idea of losing the tactile pleasure of a manual gearbox, and so in that respect, it's more appealing than the 650S.

Mclaren ownership would require me to be at a much higher price point than I am now, a dream car sure, but it comes with dream car financial responsibilities.

It's more, but possibly in the same sort of ball-park. £80,000 will likely get you a decent 570GT, or 540c, neither of which is likely to depreicate as much as a one year-old Emira.

One part of the decision to sell the Emira and keep my 650s was my expectation that the Lotus would be the more expensive car to own for another couple of years.

[paralla]

I firmly believe that the engine in a sports car is central to its appeal.

Seems to me like the 3.5 V6 got the job done but lacked any sort of drama, theatre, personality, fizz, or whatever else that endears a car to its owner.

The 2GR-FE 3.5 was developed in 2005 and just wasn’t special enough for the Emira.

[Ken_Code]

I’d like to try the four cylinder version, and would love to try one once any unnecessary restrictions on it have been removed.

I think it’s very possible that that engine was turned down so as not to detract from the V6, and that once turned back up again it could be a far better match to the car.

[PinkHouse]

Ken_Code said:

Olivera said:

I'd like it if some reviewers were more explicit in where exactly the Emira falls short. There seems to be a lot of waffle and skirting around outright criticism.

@DrPittenstein on YouTube is a Lotus nut, he reviewed the Emira and suggested they ran out of development budget. Hence the extremely odd anachronism of choosing between touring and sport springs, as even hot hatches have been fitted with ~20 stage adaptive DCC dampers for many years.

I don't like the V6 engine. It doesn't feel "lively", which for me is down to the slow-revving nature of it, the shape of the torque curve, and the low rev limit.

I also didn't like the sound.

Taken together this meant that the car felt slower than it really was, with a less responsive throttle than I would like.

I was extremely happy with how it drove, how comfortable it was, with the perveived build quality, and with how it looked.

The same engine is much more sonorous and visceral in a 410 and 430 although the rev limit still arrives quite quickly