Star Wars: The Acolyte

[C5_Steve]

zetec said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...

This review contains the line,

"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."

This article is in response to this review posted earlier in the thread, which is a very well written and not too geeky view of why it and the show are so bad:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2024/06/11/t...

In regards to the complaints the article you linked, I guess it depends where you look. The article you posted is doing the same thing as a lot of others where it's trying to say that the issues fans have aren't valid. For example, the force creating life. The article argues that this was in the prequels because of the story Anakin was told about Darth Plageious (prob spelt that wrong) being able to bring people back from the dead. Except that's not true. The story Anakin is told and the power he seeks was about EXTENDING life, never conception of life. It's right there in the script, yet the author of this article hasn't even done the most basic check and instead claims those complaining about it are the ones in the wrong.

I have no issues of criticism of the facts but it's not the fans twisting the narrative here.

[Lucas Ayde]

Antony Moxey said:

Thing is, I find ALL entertainment trivial. Roll your eyes all you like, but it's just a story, and one that's easy to watch. Like it, don't like it, I genuinely find myself completely bemused that people can get so hot under the collar about it, especially this latest episode. I mean, aliens right, they'd never do that...

We get it - this is your way of feeling smug and superior. You be you.

[Antony Moxey]

Evercross said:

Your take on Star Wars is IMO a bit lightweight and naïve.

I'm happy with that.

[Lucas Ayde]

zetec said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...

This review contains the line,

"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."

Any devoted fan of a TV show /series of movies /series of books /any work of fiction is going to get very annoyed when it gets wrecked due to bad writing etc. Because they really like 'the thing' and they see it being ruined. Star Wars was a pretty 'big thing' for a lot of people so a lot of people are up in arms as it turns into a raging dumpster fire.

A real extra problem for fans is that a lot of the bilge being churned out now actually retroactively ruins the entire show by trying to retcon origins which is what is going on here. Same thing with Doctor Who. That really pisses people off and it appears that the idiots with agendas to push are deliberately doing it.

Of course, eventually 'the thing' becomes so ruined that the fans stop caring about it any more and apathy sets in. That's where I am with a lot of the scifi shows I used to love.

[Antony Moxey]

Lucas Ayde said:

Antony Moxey said:

Thing is, I find ALL entertainment trivial. Roll your eyes all you like, but it's just a story, and one that's easy to watch. Like it, don't like it, I genuinely find myself completely bemused that people can get so hot under the collar about it, especially this latest episode. I mean, aliens right, they'd never do that...

We get it - this is your way of feeling smug and superior. You be you.

Bloody hell, some people really are triggered. I'm not feeling smug or superior to anyone, I'm just saying I don't get the hysteria. If you want to rant then rant away, but as much as it's your right to do so, it's also my right to feel bemused by it all.

[Lucas Ayde]

Antony Moxey said:

Bloody hell, some people really are triggered. I'm not feeling smug or superior to anyone, I'm just saying I don't get the hysteria. If you want to rant then rant away, but as much as it's your right to do so, it's also my right to feel bemused by it all.

Absolutely. You be you. Feel free to somehow feel better than everyone else by being above it all and jump into a thread to tell everyone that. I genuinely hope it makes your life feel better.

[bloomen]

Haven't bothered with ep3 yet.

I'm still processing how a few half hours with no big stars and presumably largely computer generated sets can cost nearly 1/5th of a billion dollars.

[Antony Moxey]

C5_Steve said:

But you don't care enough about the universe (apparently) to understand why there would be any other issues and so default to "oh it must be the lesbian space witches". But you care enough to come onto a thread about it and comment though, right? You'd rather just "lol people not liking a thing and getting annoyed are stupid" post, instead of engaging? Comes across as childish and baitish.

But I haven't defaulted to 'it must be the lesbian space witches', I'm not sure why you'd think that. Nor have I said anyone's stupid, although I have said I don't understand the depth of emotion. Childish and baiting - to me that's how you're coming across: 'how dare you not be completely immersed and take offence at everything everyone else does on here.'

[carl_w]

C5_Steve said:

For example, the force creating life. The article argues that this was in the prequels because of the story Anakin was told about Darth Plageious (prob spelt that wrong) being able to bring people back from the dead. Except that's not true. The story Anakin is told and the power he seeks was about EXTENDING life, never conception of life.

Remind me how Anakin was conceived?

[Evercross]

Antony Moxey said:

I'm just saying I don't get the hysteria. If you want to rant then rant away, but as much as it's your right to do so, it's also my right to feel bemused by it all.

You appear a bit insensitive to me TBH.

Lucas Ayde said:

Any devoted fan of a TV show /series of movies /series of books /any work of fiction is going to get very annoyed when it gets wrecked due to bad writing etc. Because they really like 'the thing' and they see it being ruined. Star Wars was a pretty 'big thing' for a lot of people so a lot of people are up in arms as it turns into a raging dumpster fire.

A real extra problem for fans is that a lot of the bilge being churned out now actually retroactively ruins the entire show by trying to retcon origins which is what is going on here. Same thing with Doctor Who. That really pisses people off and it appears that the idiots with agendas to push are deliberately doing it.

The agenda pushing is indeed one thing, but I take more of an issue with people who would otherwise have never achieved much in the industry off their own bat using the goodwill of existing IPs and their fan base to get traction for their substandard writing, directing and storytelling.

They argue that they are trying to bridge the gap between traditional and 'modern' audiences but the repeated failure of such endeavours shows this argument is specious. So, I have to ask again - are Disney Lucasfilm just straight up burning cash or what?

[robemcdonald]

As I said he is just here to poke people with a metaphorical sharp stick.
Each time anyone engages him you give him exactly what he wants.
ignore his “contributions” and he will go back to watching his preferred content of Z list celebrities mincing around in spandex.

[lambosagogo]

bloomen said:

Haven't bothered with ep3 yet.

I'm still processing how a few half hours with no big stars and presumably largely computer generated sets can cost nearly 1/5th of a billion dollars.

Apparently you can buy a monkey for around $3000. So you get about 30,000 of them, 30,000 typewriters, a supply of snacks and let them go for a few years. It quickly adds up.

[zetec]

Lucas Ayde said:

zetec said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...

This review contains the line,

"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."

Any devoted fan of a TV show /series of movies /series of books /any work of fiction is going to get very annoyed when it gets wrecked due to bad writing etc. Because they really like 'the thing' and they see it being ruined. Star Wars was a pretty 'big thing' for a lot of people so a lot of people are up in arms as it turns into a raging dumpster fire.

A real extra problem for fans is that a lot of the bilge being churned out now actually retroactively ruins the entire show by trying to retcon origins which is what is going on here. Same thing with Doctor Who. That really pisses people off and it appears that the idiots with agendas to push are deliberately doing it.

Of course, eventually 'the thing' becomes so ruined that the fans stop caring about it any more and apathy sets in. That's where I am with a lot of the scifi shows I used to love.

Don't get me wrong, I grew up with and am a massive Star Wars fan.
I thought the point being made about Star Wars fans complaining was because the recent releases are doing nothing but ruin a story fans understand and know inside out. It's all we can do, in hope someone at Disney listens and understands.
Apologies if my post was taken as mocking fans behaviour.

[C5_Steve]

carl_w said:

Remind me how Anakin was conceived?

I'm glad you asked...

It's not specified. In the film, Qui Gon says he believes the force itself created him as "The Chosen One".

In some side comics, I believe there's some stuff about Darth Sideous manipulating the midichlorians but that's not in the film and also, not the story the article referenced. Here in lies the fan outrage that Ep3's storyline means that no, it's not special at all and there's a group that can do it at will. Thus creating an issue with the chosen one thing.

The point of my comment is there are a lot of poorly researched opinions being given as fact as to why people being annoyed isn't a valid feeling. It's perfectly valid and it's not a small thing they're annoyed at. It's a massive fundamental plot point and not just one. A side series storyline shouldn't be undoing 9 films really should it? Forget the rest of the universe.

[Evercross]

C5_Steve said:

A side series storyline shouldn't be undoing 9 films really should it?

That's a good question, but taken in the light of this being a Lucasfilm production and the current head of Lucasfilm already having attempted to do this twice before ie. completely upend the premise and lore of a beloved franchise into their way of thinking, one has to ask is this person pissing away billions and torching the goodwill of a fanbase just to settle a perceived score they have with their former superiors?

It seemed like a joke before (South Park riffing on it massively) but I'm struggling now to see another explanation that fits what is playing out.

[C5_Steve]

Antony Moxey said:

But I haven't defaulted to 'it must be the lesbian space witches', I'm not sure why you'd think that. Nor have I said anyone's stupid, although I have said I don't understand the depth of emotion. Childish and baiting - to me that's how you're coming across: 'how dare you not be completely immersed and take offence at everything everyone else does on here.'

But you have, by only focusing on the NPE element as you call it. It's painfully obvious from your comments that your issue is with those who feel that the themes in Ep3 are "woke" and have no place in SW. I couldn't agree with you more on that point and I'm sure most others posting would also agree. I'll say it again, the issue isn't with the "lesbian space witches" themselves as characters, it's with everything else

And whilst you haven't called anyone stupid, you did say you find the "middle-aged vitriol" amusing. Hardly meant as a compliment was it.

I don't have an issue with you not being immersed in a thing, I wouldn't even care if you disliked it and explained why. In fact I'd welcome the opinion and relish the opportunity to discuss the thing from opposing viewpoints. My issue (and others) is the way you've told everyone you find their interest in a thing "amusing" and feel that those who don't like the direction it's taken are the problem.

You keep saying you don't care but have made no effort to engage or understand so I've inferred from that you are indeed just posting comments to bait a response or feel somehow above it all. Pretty shallow if you ask me when you obviously do have things in your life you enjoy. If that's not the case, then perhaps next time you don't understand a thing don't laugh at others. Ask.

[Antony Moxey]

Lucas Ayde said:

Antony Moxey said:

Bloody hell, some people really are triggered. I'm not feeling smug or superior to anyone, I'm just saying I don't get the hysteria. If you want to rant then rant away, but as much as it's your right to do so, it's also my right to feel bemused by it all.

Absolutely. You be you. Feel free to somehow feel better than everyone else by being above it all and jump into a thread to tell everyone that. I genuinely hope it makes your life feel better.

Grow up and stop being such a baby. You are literally acting like a five year old having a tantrum.

[rider73]

C5_Steve said:

A side series storyline shouldn't be undoing 9 films really should it?

they have to give relevance to something they spent millions on and touted as the best thing every released.....because they cant really go with the acting or script.

[Evercross]

rider73 said:

they have to give relevance to something they spent millions on and touted as the best thing every released.....because they cant really go with the acting or script.

Just had a chat during lunchtime there with a colleague who is a life-long Star Wars fan. This is someone who has watched it all including the animated series and said he "enjoyed" Ashoka and, let's just say, he's of a demographic who should have no issues whatsoever with the socio-political agendas some people are saying are the cause of the criticism of The Acolyte (yeah, he's gay).

He summed up episode 3 in one word - "pants".

[Antony Moxey]

C5_Steve said:

Antony Moxey said:

But I haven't defaulted to 'it must be the lesbian space witches', I'm not sure why you'd think that. Nor have I said anyone's stupid, although I have said I don't understand the depth of emotion. Childish and baiting - to me that's how you're coming across: 'how dare you not be completely immersed and take offence at everything everyone else does on here.'

But you have, by only focusing on the NPE element as you call it. It's painfully obvious from your comments that your issue is with those who feel that the themes in Ep3 are "woke" and have no place in SW. I couldn't agree with you more on that point and I'm sure most others posting would also agree. I'll say it again, the issue isn't with the "lesbian space witches" themselves as characters, it's with everything else

And whilst you haven't called anyone stupid, you did say you find the "middle-aged vitriol" amusing. Hardly meant as a compliment was it.

I don't have an issue with you not being immersed in a thing, I wouldn't even care if you disliked it and explained why. In fact I'd welcome the opinion and relish the opportunity to discuss the thing from opposing viewpoints. My issue (and others) is the way you've told everyone you find their interest in a thing "amusing" and feel that those who don't like the direction it's taken are the problem.

You keep saying you don't care but have made no effort to engage or understand so I've inferred from that you are indeed just posting comments to bait a response or feel somehow above it all. Pretty shallow if you ask me when you obviously do have things in your life you enjoy. If that's not the case, then perhaps next time you don't understand a thing don't laugh at others. Ask.

My whole point was that I think people are taking the whole thing too seriously and I find that bewildering and amusing. Simply that. Nothing else. I've not insulted or called anyone out on it, I haven't said they're wrong, I haven't said I'm better than anyone because I don't share their views or need to forensically dissect every scene in every episode. That's it. That's all I've been saying.

I do still watch the episodes, and I do still read the threads because there's a lot of information on stuff I might have missed so I'll stick around, but I'm not sure why I've had quite so many tantrums thrown in my direction.