Star Wars: The Acolyte
Discussion
I've just watched all 3 of these over the last few days.
I thought it started ok but it's gone very down hill especially in Ep3. Terrible acting, weak incoherent story, inconsistent character motivations/reasoning. Not sure who it's aimed at either, one minute the bright colours and simple plot makes me thing young kids then that mixes with the suicide (for no obvious reason) and violence.
They couldn't even stick to the who did it plot for more than 20 minutes. Maybe they realised it was so sloppily put together it wasn't worth it.
I thought it started ok but it's gone very down hill especially in Ep3. Terrible acting, weak incoherent story, inconsistent character motivations/reasoning. Not sure who it's aimed at either, one minute the bright colours and simple plot makes me thing young kids then that mixes with the suicide (for no obvious reason) and violence.
They couldn't even stick to the who did it plot for more than 20 minutes. Maybe they realised it was so sloppily put together it wasn't worth it.
robemcdonald said:
Antony Moxey said:
This thread is hilarious, there’s almost NP&E levels of hysteria.
Do you have any thoughts yourself? or are you just here to poke people with a sharp stick?As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Antony Moxey said:
I’m watching it and will see it through to the end. It’s not brilliant but it’s not sending me into a seething rage, but I guess I’m just seeing it as a bit of light entertainment that isn’t worth taking seriously (rather like the rest of the franchise, going all the way back to A New Hope).
As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Ah yes, the usual trivialisation of genuine discussion of entertainment. As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Entertainment is a product just like any other, and people who invest time and money in it are entitled to express their opinions Bearing in mind that Disney spent $180,000,000 on The Acolyte, which is significantly more than Netflix spent on the last series of Stranger Things (which had a longer runtime and a more illustrious and expensive cast) you have to wonder what exactly are they thinking binning that amount of cash into this dross.
I'm fortunate that I don't have to pay a sub to D+ to watch it but I could understand after all the hype why people paying for this would be feeling a bit short changed, plus that witch chant in Episode 3 was pure cringe and (if more people were actually paying attention to it) would become the meme that defines the show.
If this was an original IP without the Star Wars branding I am certain it would never have been made, so this is nothing more than an expensive vanity project in a long string of expensive loss-making vanity projects by Lucasfilm.
For perspective - the 2023 cinematically released movie The Creator had a budget of only $80,000,000 yet looks technically better than The Acolyte (because it used live-location filming despite having less than half the budget) and was far more entertaining. Ironically, it was directed by Gareth Edwards who also directed Rogue One ie. the only Disney Star Wars movie that the fans and critics agree was any good.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 14th June 07:12
Antony Moxey said:
robemcdonald said:
Antony Moxey said:
This thread is hilarious, there’s almost NP&E levels of hysteria.
Do you have any thoughts yourself? or are you just here to poke people with a sharp stick?As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Help me out. Give me a few examples of redeeming qualities this show has.
Evercross said:
Antony Moxey said:
I’m watching it and will see it through to the end. It’s not brilliant but it’s not sending me into a seething rage, but I guess I’m just seeing it as a bit of light entertainment that isn’t worth taking seriously (rather like the rest of the franchise, going all the way back to A New Hope).
As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Ah yes, the usual trivialisation of genuine discussion of entertainment. As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
It’s a bit like arguing all cars are the same in that they. Am all get you from A to B, so why have an expensive one?
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless. That argument can best be surmised as ‘nothing matters’. Most of us don’t buy into that.
Entertainment is art. It will always be analysed and critiqued. When an IP which for many, links back to their childhood and is, perhaps as result, beloved, is birthing new content, people care. For many it’s almost like following a football team. You stick with them through good and bad because they are your team. When they are poor, you talk about it with others. Doesn’t mean you hate your team. Means you hate how they are playing at a particular time. Perhaps you blame the owner, the manager or the players. You hope better times will come.
That’s what we see here. Of late I had the epiphany that when content doesn’t appeal to me, even if I hoped it would, I don’t watch it. I didn’t watch Echo. Half an episode of Rings of Power was enough for me. Didn’t watch Ms Marvel. Couldn’t finish ‘The Marvels nor Blue Beetle.
After two episodes of Acolyte I think I’ve seen enough. It’s not for me. I hope for better days ahead.
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless. That argument can best be surmised as ‘nothing matters’. Most of us don’t buy into that.
Entertainment is art. It will always be analysed and critiqued. When an IP which for many, links back to their childhood and is, perhaps as result, beloved, is birthing new content, people care. For many it’s almost like following a football team. You stick with them through good and bad because they are your team. When they are poor, you talk about it with others. Doesn’t mean you hate your team. Means you hate how they are playing at a particular time. Perhaps you blame the owner, the manager or the players. You hope better times will come.
That’s what we see here. Of late I had the epiphany that when content doesn’t appeal to me, even if I hoped it would, I don’t watch it. I didn’t watch Echo. Half an episode of Rings of Power was enough for me. Didn’t watch Ms Marvel. Couldn’t finish ‘The Marvels nor Blue Beetle.
After two episodes of Acolyte I think I’ve seen enough. It’s not for me. I hope for better days ahead.
bstb3 said:
This chart has been doing the rounds the last couple of days. It's interesting (assuming it's not made up) but it does rather suggest that Star Wars, relative to Marvel movies as a compartive, is much more heavily male watched and also a little older in it's viewership too. It's probably not hugely surprising.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-olde...
Tv shows also seem to pull in an older audience than the movies, so again not surprising there. If Star Wars wants to capture younger fans, good solid movies need to come out, and if the last 3 didn't manage to do it (which it seems they didn't) then continuing with the same leads and theme is also an odd one.
Does rather sound like another case of interesting ideas such as 'who is good being a matter of perspective', 'exploitation', 'self appointed moral arbiters' etc, all of which are very valid modern issues to tell stories about, being undermined by poor execution and a lack of appreciation of the core audience and how far they can be stretched.
I think there are two main ways at looking at that chart:https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-olde...
Tv shows also seem to pull in an older audience than the movies, so again not surprising there. If Star Wars wants to capture younger fans, good solid movies need to come out, and if the last 3 didn't manage to do it (which it seems they didn't) then continuing with the same leads and theme is also an odd one.
Does rather sound like another case of interesting ideas such as 'who is good being a matter of perspective', 'exploitation', 'self appointed moral arbiters' etc, all of which are very valid modern issues to tell stories about, being undermined by poor execution and a lack of appreciation of the core audience and how far they can be stretched.
1) the fan base for Star Wars/Marvel is overwhelmingly male. To be successful we need to make sure we understand why they like it and ensure we keep delivering new stuff that meets their needs
2) the fan base is mainly male so we need to change it to attract females
Unfortunately if you are going for 2) but alienating a lot of 1) I don’t think it will be a financial success
Why are films liked by men being targeted for change? Are they doing the same for rom coms and genres traditionally preferred by women?
I am sure there are clever script writers and directors who could produce new material that keeps the existing fan base happy but also make it more appealing to women. Unfortunately none of them seem to work for Disney (or they do but are not being allowed to produce that material).
Antony Moxey said:
Evercross said:
Antony Moxey said:
I’m watching it and will see it through to the end. It’s not brilliant but it’s not sending me into a seething rage, but I guess I’m just seeing it as a bit of light entertainment that isn’t worth taking seriously (rather like the rest of the franchise, going all the way back to A New Hope).
As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
Ah yes, the usual trivialisation of genuine discussion of entertainment. As I said, some of the reactions on here are genuinely hilarious.
It's pretty disengenous to come onto a thread and try and tell people their opinions aren't valid simply because you don't care about the show and to then try and bait by throwing in the NP&E comment. Yes, in the media a lot of headlines of articles criticising the show have lead with the "Lesbian Space Witches" headline but almost all from decent sources have valid criticisms of the production. On this thread, again it's been almost all specific criticism of the how the show treas the wider universe and lore established over a very long time. Nothing wrong with that. Even Forbes have slammed it.
I'm a Star Trek fan first and have spent a lot of time on those threads defending and discussing Discovery for very similar reasons as that show has been seen as a big step away from established Trek, for better and for worse so I think these discussions can be and have been worthwhile. To not state you don't like something is ridiculous; criticism is healthy.
If you genuinely have no opinion on the show, then don't tell others they're opinion isn't valid. If you do enjoy the show (which it seems you actually do) then I, and I'm sure others would love to hear why. if The Acolyte brings in new fans or speaks to a new audience then I'm happy for you and the show. Like Discovery, this may be the thing that gets you into the world and that's brilliant. But to tell people they're wrong for not liking a thing, when they've given some very specific and detailed reasons as to why (that have nothing to do with anything NP&E as you put it) isn't the way to engage.
If all you want is pretty colours and loud noises then that's fine, you do you.
The rest of us like our trivial entertainment to have some merit like a coherent plot, characters that act in a consistent way. "it's all made up" isn't a free pass, even for Sci-fi, if you've established rules for your world you need to stick with them and seeing as most stories are about people they need to act like real people space wizards or not.
The bad acting is just inexcusable.
The rest of us like our trivial entertainment to have some merit like a coherent plot, characters that act in a consistent way. "it's all made up" isn't a free pass, even for Sci-fi, if you've established rules for your world you need to stick with them and seeing as most stories are about people they need to act like real people space wizards or not.
The bad acting is just inexcusable.
highway said:
It’s a bit like arguing all cars are the same in that they. Am all get you from A to B, so why have an expensive one?
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
It's nothing like that at all. If I don't like a particular car I won't buy it, if I don't like a particular restaurant I won't visit it again. If someone asked my opinion of either I'd say I thought they were rubbish but that that's my opinion. I wouldn't be going into a rage about how the franchise has been disrespected and other such nonsense. Your examples are literally ridiculous.Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
Antony Moxey said:
highway said:
It’s a bit like arguing all cars are the same in that they. Am all get you from A to B, so why have an expensive one?
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
It's nothing like that at all. If I don't like a particular car I won't buy it, if I don't like a particular restaurant I won't visit it again. If someone asked my opinion of either I'd say I thought they were rubbish but that that's my opinion. I wouldn't be going into a rage about how the franchise has been disrespected and other such nonsense. Your examples are literally ridiculous.Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
C5_Steve said:
Hmmm...but you're not quite being honest, are you? You don't find ALL entertainment trivial, some shows you follow along and know all the background behind the scenes, all the news and gossip etc. Like Strictly Come Dancing, for example. You literally started a thread on it. I'm sure to some people, that would come across as "bemusing" as to why you'd care so much about fake reality shows.
Yes, but if Strictly was cancelled or they decided to make it mostly female, or maybe introduce same sex couples... oh, wait, they have, but I haven't felt the need to fly into a rage over it. Thing is, and you can take it or leave it, I really don't care about it that much. It's entertaining, I enjoy it, I'm a fan, but were it cancelled, well there'd be something else along to take its place.As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.
People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).
rider73 said:
Antony Moxey said:
highway said:
It’s a bit like arguing all cars are the same in that they. Am all get you from A to B, so why have an expensive one?
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
It's nothing like that at all. If I don't like a particular car I won't buy it, if I don't like a particular restaurant I won't visit it again. If someone asked my opinion of either I'd say I thought they were rubbish but that that's my opinion. I wouldn't be going into a rage about how the franchise has been disrespected and other such nonsense. Your examples are literally ridiculous.Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
Antony Moxey said:
rider73 said:
Antony Moxey said:
highway said:
It’s a bit like arguing all cars are the same in that they. Am all get you from A to B, so why have an expensive one?
Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
It's nothing like that at all. If I don't like a particular car I won't buy it, if I don't like a particular restaurant I won't visit it again. If someone asked my opinion of either I'd say I thought they were rubbish but that that's my opinion. I wouldn't be going into a rage about how the franchise has been disrespected and other such nonsense. Your examples are literally ridiculous.Why eat in an expensive restaurant? Does t matter what the food tastes like, it all ends up the same.
The examples are literally endless.
Antony Moxey said:
Yes, but if Strictly was cancelled or they decided to make it mostly female, or maybe introduce same sex couples... oh, wait, they have, but I haven't felt the need to fly into a rage over it. Thing is, and you can take it or leave it, I really don't care about it that much. It's entertaining, I enjoy it, I'm a fan, but were it cancelled, well there'd be something else along to take its place.
As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.
People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).
It's clear from your posts that you're focusing on one specific aspect of the show and assuming all complaints are related to that aspect, but that's simply not true. There are literally pages and pages and pages of complaints about the show's first two episodes anywhere you care to look that have nothing to do with the gender, race or sexual orientation of the characters. It is perfectly possible to criticise a thing that features characters from an underrepresented group without the criticism being about that group. But you don't care enough about the universe (apparently) to understand why there would be any other issues and so default to "oh it must be the lesbian space witches". But you care enough to come onto a thread about it and comment though, right? You'd rather just "lol people not liking a thing and getting annoyed are stupid" post, instead of engaging? Comes across as childish and baitish. As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.
People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).
Also, do try and make a comment without insulting and assuming people's backgrounds and beliefs. We're not all middle-aged for a start
Anyway I'm off to the strictly thread to laugh at why anyone cares who's injured themselves and tell everyone they should care about their own lives and throw their TV out the window because how dare they have any form of escapism or joy in their life. See you there!
C5_Steve said:
Antony Moxey said:
Yes, but if Strictly was cancelled or they decided to make it mostly female, or maybe introduce same sex couples... oh, wait, they have, but I haven't felt the need to fly into a rage over it. Thing is, and you can take it or leave it, I really don't care about it that much. It's entertaining, I enjoy it, I'm a fan, but were it cancelled, well there'd be something else along to take its place.
As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.
People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).
It's clear from your posts that you're focusing on one specific aspect of the show and assuming all complaints are related to that aspect, but that's simply not true.As for the Star Wars stuff, yes, I like it. I own all the films and other than the animated stuff which I really don't enjoy so don't bother with I watch it and by and large enjoy it. It's escapist nonsense, so I don't bother thinking too deeply about it. And in the end I'd rather stuff was being put out than not, regardless of the middle aged vitriol it attracts.
People just take stuff too seriously at times (look at the Top Gear and James Bond threads - good grief!).
Antony Moxey said:
but I guess I’m just seeing it as a bit of light entertainment that isn’t worth taking seriously (rather like the rest of the franchise, going all the way back to A New Hope).
Star Wars (later retitled Star Wars Episode 4 - A New Hope) was a cultural phenomenon that defined a genre, spawned a multi-billion dollar industry, inspired a plethora of imitators and has had more societal influence over several generations than just about anything else in entertainment before or since. People probably don't remember political events in 1977 or any of the years the sequels and prequels were released, but they remember Star Wars.Your take on Star Wars is IMO a bit lightweight and naïve.
How about reflecting on my point that entertainment is an endeavour that costs money and has to make a return on that investment for people in jobs related to that endeavour to make a living. Disney Lucasfilm is continuing to bin hundreds of millions on a failing franchise and it doesn't make sense to me. Their creative decisions clearly are not landing. The numbers don't lie - the audience is shrinking and the revenue is falling.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 14th June 12:11
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...
This review contains the line,
"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."
This review contains the line,
"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."
zetec said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2024/06...
This review contains the line,
"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."
It also contains the line...This review contains the line,
"The most important part of being a Star Wars fan is, of course, bitterly complaining about Star Wars."
"Imagine if the black-and-white worldview of the Narnia series was clumsily injected with the philosophy of Game of Thrones halfway through the story, and never quite managed to strike the right tone — that’s where Star Wars is."
That is the punchline of the article (and the rest is the author carefully trying to avoid the types of politically charged accusations being directed at critics of the show).
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