Dissapointment with Blueray

[jac-in-a-box]

First foray into Blueray has left me feeling distinctly cold. Picture, especially in dark scenes lacks any colour and definition everything is just too dark. Brighter scenes don't look so bad but far from ideal. If I adjust the darker picture to "brighten" it the lighter sections are way too light.

TV is a LCD 40" Sony KDL 40V5810 and BD player is a Sony BDP S760 connected via HDMI using a QED Silver reference cable. Audio is perfect via a digital coax to an Arcam reciever - no issues there.
Power cables are routed well away from any signal cables. I've got (I think!) all the TV /BD player inputs/outputs for HDMI set correctly and the player is set to detect source quality automatically...TV is capable of displaying 1080p and 24fps material. If thats what it's doing I'm not impressed!

Countless hours have been spent tweaking any video related controls (on TV and player) without any success. Picture via Virgin+ Box is passable but nothing to shout about...I get a far superior pictures from a second set set-up using a 3 year old Panny plasma and DVD player on non HD sources.

I'm considering buying a "set-up" disc to see if I can improve the picture - reset the TV and BD player to their default settings and starting again.
A quick ferret on the net has thrown up 2 discs that may do the trick "Video Essentials" and "Pixel Protector" - both have mixed reviews. Anyone any experience or advice on using these?

If anyone could give me some pointers on how to extract the best from the TV and player it would be hugely appreciated

Edited by jac-in-a-box on Monday 5th April 09:24

[Plotloss]

Plasma better than LCD shocker...

[headcase]

+1

The only thing i can suggest is that you really must have the brightness and contrast set correctly to get the most from your set,

follow this document i written a long time ago (its still usefull on modern sets) except the test cards are all SD (is basically a cut down version of commercially available setup discs)

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AQwyoj0hghSKZGZu...

Edited by headcase on Monday 5th April 10:14

[jac-in-a-box]

Plotloss said:

Plasma better than LCD shocker...

Wasn't the point or intention of my post fella - but as you've raised it, that would be my view at the moment!
I'm sure that deep inside those boxes of electronic wizardry there's a picture to die for waiting to get out; so go on, tell me how to release it;)

[rhinochopig]

jac-in-a-box said:

Plotloss said:

Plasma better than LCD shocker...

Wasn't the point or intention of my post fella - but as you've raised it, that would be my view at the moment!
I'm sure that deep inside those boxes of electronic wizardry there's a picture to die for waiting to get out; so go on, tell me how to release it;)

I'm far from being an expert, but the theme I picked up on from reading this area of the forum is that LCD tech just doesn't do deep blacks very well - although some of the very expensive LCDs seem to be getting close. I recall either Plotters or Der mentioning the new Phillips being very good in that respect.

Most Disney and Lucas film DVDs have a THX set-up section on them to enable you get the best picture. Failing that your looking at professional calibration, although that is probably not going to address your issues as it just seems to be an artefact of LCD displays, i.e. very bright, lurid picture, with poor blacks but impresses in the showroom.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 5th April 10:20

[OldSkoolRS]

You should be able to adjust the Sony to a respectable picture IMHO. First recommendation is to turn off all the pointless 'advanced' menu items, things like contrast enhance, black level boost, gamma correction, etc as they tend to make the picture worse rather than better. Secondly get a copy of DVE on BluRay or download the free AVS709 disc image from AVSForums and burn this to a DVD in AVCHD format: Your Sony will play this as a high definition disc the same as a BluRay (I use this disc to do full calibration on my TV and projector using an older Sony BDP-S350 player).

Use the 'basic' setup patterns on AVS709 (particularly the flashing black bars) to set up your TV, you should adjust the brightness so that the 17 IRE bar is just visible but not the 16 bar. Likewise for the white bars pattern make sure that the contrast is adjusted so that the 235 bar at least is visible (ideally upto 245 or more to allow for 'headroom'). If the higher value white bars look tinted pink/green/blue then lower the main contrast so that at least to 235 look white. Make sure the player's settings are at default and only use the TV controls to setup. It's also usually recommended to use 'Warm 2' colour temp on Sony LCDs as this is usually closest to 6500K which is the colour temperature a professional calibrator would be aiming for. You may need to change the TV setting from 'Vivid' or whatever they call it these days, to allow you to make changes; mine is in 'Custom' set for each input independantly for example.

Try adjusting the back light to allow for the room ambient lighting: If you tend to watch more in evenings with low light, then lower the backlight (mine is on 4 out of 10 for example). Equally if you find the image is too dim, then turn it up. Finally, once you've set the TV controls as best you can, you can try the player's gamma controls if it helps: It should be in 'Standard' initially, but if you change to 'Cinema' it will darken the image without changing the absolute black level, equaly 'Bright room' will help you see shadow detail better, though technically 'Standard' should be correct, if you prefer the other settings, that's more important.

I've got an older 40W2000 which I've calibrated using this disc and the picture is very acceptable although I don't generally watch BluRays on it as I have a projector, they look pretty good on it IMHO.

I hope this helps.

Link to test disc and full instructions to use it (very long thread!).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12...

[Plotloss]

jac-in-a-box said:

Plotloss said:

Plasma better than LCD shocker...

Wasn't the point or intention of my post fella - but as you've raised it, that would be my view at the moment!
I'm sure that deep inside those boxes of electronic wizardry there's a picture to die for waiting to get out; so go on, tell me how to release it;)

Trouble is, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Whilst there is an element of tweaking that can be done to make the picture slightly better, if you're expecting contrast, colours and motion to be comparable to what is a good Plasma it just isn't going to happen because of a fundamental limitation in the technology.

[jac-in-a-box]

Thanks for the replies guys...OldSkoolRS that's a helpful post of useful information which I'll dig into with enthusiasm, looks good

Unfortunately, the list of BD players which the calibration disc supports doesn't include mine (Sony BDP S760) - and I don't have the capabilty of knocking up a DVD...I'll find someone who can and give it a go.

For Plotloss - sadly the choice of plasma or LCD wasn't mine to make. My "financial controller" made that decision!
While I don't want to get into what format's better (I'm sure it's been done to death) I'd have to say that I could see very little difference in PQ between the two at similar price points in showrooms. In the home it's a different story.
With a little luck, a go with some sort of calibration disc will improve the situation.

[Plotloss]

That's because of showroom lighting.

If you turn the contrast up to 11, turn all the nonsense on, under strip lights its easy to make LCD look a lot better.

In the home however, unless you've a load of strip lights in your lounge this isn't possible.

[LongLiveTazio]

Sorry to be another one but LCDs are rubbish, get a plasma. The amount of people that have seen BR/HD DVD/Sky HD on my Panasonic and asked me why it looks much better than other people's...

We also seem to be in the bizarre situation where a plasma is now cheaper than an LCD!

[chr15b]

Must read this later

[OldSkoolRS]

jac-in-a-box said:

Thanks for the replies guys...OldSkoolRS that's a helpful post of useful information which I'll dig into with enthusiasm, looks good

Unfortunately, the list of BD players which the calibration disc supports doesn't include mine (Sony BDP S760) - and I don't have the capabilty of knocking up a DVD...I'll find someone who can and give it a go.

Glad it's of help as you're obviously not going to scrap it and run out and buy a plasma at this point (despite the nay sayers). It's quite possible to adjust a Sony LCD so that it's as dim as a plasma, so no need to have everything bumped upto 11 unless you like it that way.

I'm sure the BDP-S760 can play AVCHD format discs which you can create on a blank DVD-R or DVD+R as far as I know, as it's just the newer (plus extra features) version of my player, plus my older S300 could also play these discs. You just need someone with a DVD burner and a copy of Nero (or similar) to burn the disc from the downloadable iso file. If you get really stuck, I could send you a disc, but I don't know how to send private messages on here?

[PJ S]

OldSkool - PM is via e-mail, which is linked in their profile, top right.

[oola]

jac-in-a-box said:

I'd have to say that I could see very little difference in PQ between the two at similar price points in showrooms. In the home it's a different story.
With a little luck, a go with some sort of calibration disc will improve the situation.

Usually because TV's are set to 'showroom' settings to wow customers when on sale.

I wouldn't say that 'LCD is rubbish' unlike the poster above ... clearly it has its limitations and plasma is far better on larger screens and for blu ray but when the settings are right, you should still be able to receive an impressive image on the Sony.

[bogie]

definately get DVD essentials setup disc and actully set the screen up properly before judging things

[RedLeicester]

Staying at arm's length of the techies for a minute or two, it's also worth noting there are Blu-Rays and Blu-Rays - just like DVD and even VHS before them, some BR discs are shockingly bad, some are surprisingly good. A classic that everyone rushed out to buy is 300 which is SO heavily digitally graded to give the film its comic book feel, that it looks frankly crap even on a good system. What worked for the big screen does not translate well to the small.

Notables are things like Wall-E which is exquisite. One other left-field choice is MSP's Claim, which was shot in both SD, xD and HD, and then edited in HD - it's amazing from shot to shot to see which cameras have been used where, and really shows up the capabilities of both the player and the telly and highlights the difference between different source material all coming from the same source medium.

[JB!]

do images still burn into plasma screens???

i have a HD LCD TV that also runs my 360 and pc through it... but if i play alot of games, am i going to burn the image into the plasma?

[dave_s13]

JB! said:

do images still burn into plasma screens???

i have a HD LCD TV that also runs my 360 and pc through it... but if i play alot of games, am i going to burn the image into the plasma?

No.

You might have to re-gas your screen after long stints on COD4 though.

[mr_fibuli]

Ratatouille on blu-ray has a decent set of THX calibration screens if you can get hold of a copy - very similar to those ones mentioned above that you have to download and burn to disc.

[Plotloss]

mr_fibuli said:

Ratatouille on blu-ray has a decent set of THX calibration screens if you can get hold of a copy - very similar to those ones mentioned above that you have to download and burn to disc.

The THX Optimizer is on all THX Certified DVDs and Blurays.

You need the glasses ideally but it will get you pretty close for what it is.