SONY HDD SD source
Discussion
I currently have a Sony 32" CRT which we watch freeview on and a Sony HDD recorder which we record onto (obviously!) The picture on the CRT is excellent.
I am trying to convince the other half to buy an HD TV (thinking of the sony kdl40w5810 or panny l37g10/g15) but i have always been dissapointed with SD pictures on HD TV's.
However the recorder is 1080 upscaling. Will the SD picture look better when it has been upscaled by the recorder or will it be similar to the SD picture from the TV's own decoder?
The reason for going HD would be XBOX, Freeview & Blu Ray.
I am trying to convince the other half to buy an HD TV (thinking of the sony kdl40w5810 or panny l37g10/g15) but i have always been dissapointed with SD pictures on HD TV's.
However the recorder is 1080 upscaling. Will the SD picture look better when it has been upscaled by the recorder or will it be similar to the SD picture from the TV's own decoder?
The reason for going HD would be XBOX, Freeview & Blu Ray.
I have a Sony HXD-870 HDD/DVD recorder going into a Sony 40W2000 TV via HDMI. In the begining I compared the two options and found a slight improvement using the recorder as a source. I can't remember now which setting gave the best result as it might have been that it was better leaving the TV to do the deinterlacing rather than the recorder, so I may have used 1080i rather than 1080p but it would just be a matter of experimenting.
These days I pass the recorder output (at 576i) into a spare input on a Lumagen video processor and it does the upscaling, deinterlacing and corrects the greyscale, gamma and colour gamut. As a result there is now some considerable difference between the internal (and effectively uncalibrated apart from greyscale) tuner and the external one in terms of colour accuracy, skin tones, sharpness and picture noise. I should temper this with a comment that it is less noticable from my usual viewing seat at 12', more that on text such as News24 the internal tuner looks slightly blurry and the reds are a bit too lurid compared to the external source. In some ways though this is also comparing a well set up TV to a calibrated one, so it also blurs the lines, but it's quite surprising how good SD TV can look on a HDTV. FWIW when the TV is on for casual viewing it doesn't strike me as a bad picture, so careful setup does help (plus turning off all those pointless 'advanced' menu items like black corrector, gamma boost, noise reduction, etc all helps).
These days I pass the recorder output (at 576i) into a spare input on a Lumagen video processor and it does the upscaling, deinterlacing and corrects the greyscale, gamma and colour gamut. As a result there is now some considerable difference between the internal (and effectively uncalibrated apart from greyscale) tuner and the external one in terms of colour accuracy, skin tones, sharpness and picture noise. I should temper this with a comment that it is less noticable from my usual viewing seat at 12', more that on text such as News24 the internal tuner looks slightly blurry and the reds are a bit too lurid compared to the external source. In some ways though this is also comparing a well set up TV to a calibrated one, so it also blurs the lines, but it's quite surprising how good SD TV can look on a HDTV. FWIW when the TV is on for casual viewing it doesn't strike me as a bad picture, so careful setup does help (plus turning off all those pointless 'advanced' menu items like black corrector, gamma boost, noise reduction, etc all helps).
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Thursday 7th January 20:15
guffhoover said:
Will the SD picture look better when it has been upscaled by the recorder or will it be similar to the SD picture from the TV's own decoder?
For a HDTV to display a SD picture then it has to be upscaled as im sure you are aware. So with an upscaling DVD player or HDD recorder in your case this also has an upscaler built into it, so its a case of weather the TV upscaler does a better job than the DVD or vice versa. There is no way of telling really without trying it. TBH your not gunna see much of a difference if any.guffhoover said:
The reason for going HD would be XBOX, Freeview & Blu Ray.
XBOX/Blu-Ray no problem, freeview currently is not HD and the Panny G10/15 does not support HD Freeview when it is released, its looking like its the next gen that will so for now even a brand new integrated freeview HDTV will need a seperate box to pick up HD Freeview.Doh! Spot the obvious mistake: I had chosen both of these sets because of their freesat capability not freeview as (wrongly) stated in my original thread.
Thanks for the comments. So there is no real advantage to decoding through the Sony recorder.
The Lumagen video processor sounds interesting. I have never heard of it; a bit of research is required.
From what i've read a 37/40" set shouldn't look overly blocky/noisy from a viewing distance of 5-7 foot.
Thanks for the comments. So there is no real advantage to decoding through the Sony recorder.
The Lumagen video processor sounds interesting. I have never heard of it; a bit of research is required.
From what i've read a 37/40" set shouldn't look overly blocky/noisy from a viewing distance of 5-7 foot.
I just saw this reply, if you are interested in the Lumagen lots of information on this link:
http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/lu_hdq.html
Be aware that the HDQ was a £1,300 or so item when new, though they do come up secondhand for under £500 and the simpler HDP (has fewer inputs and a different shaped box) for around £300. They only have DVI inputs and outputs so sound won't pass through so it needs to be put after your amplifier. A more modern alternative is the DVDO 'Edge' or 'Duo' which do use HDMI inputs and outputs but these are around £600 plus new (Edges have come up for sale on AVForums classifieds for around £375).
Video processors require a steep learning curve and some thing that a professional installer would be able to set up, either that or spend the long dark winter evenings reading up how to work them (and a few more after you've got it getting it to work). In other words it's a bit 'geeky' but the end result can be fantastic.
Easier option is to buy a TV with good built in upscaling like the Kuros and/or a good quality BluRay player that does a great job of DVD upscaling (like maybe Oppo, new Denon'2010 or the forthcoming Arcam BluRay player), but non of these will help with SD TV.
http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/lu_hdq.html
Be aware that the HDQ was a £1,300 or so item when new, though they do come up secondhand for under £500 and the simpler HDP (has fewer inputs and a different shaped box) for around £300. They only have DVI inputs and outputs so sound won't pass through so it needs to be put after your amplifier. A more modern alternative is the DVDO 'Edge' or 'Duo' which do use HDMI inputs and outputs but these are around £600 plus new (Edges have come up for sale on AVForums classifieds for around £375).
Video processors require a steep learning curve and some thing that a professional installer would be able to set up, either that or spend the long dark winter evenings reading up how to work them (and a few more after you've got it getting it to work). In other words it's a bit 'geeky' but the end result can be fantastic.
Easier option is to buy a TV with good built in upscaling like the Kuros and/or a good quality BluRay player that does a great job of DVD upscaling (like maybe Oppo, new Denon'2010 or the forthcoming Arcam BluRay player), but non of these will help with SD TV.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Saturday 9th January 20:11
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