Can you "tee" off a sky cable (to feet freesat HD)??

[dave_s13]

My last post in here saw my mate with a shiny new panasonic plasma/blu-ray player...lovely stuff.

It's all set up now and he had Sky HD installed yesterday but only has the dual feed from the LNB to his box.

Question is. Can you tee off one of those feeds to supply the TV's Freesat HD "IN" socket. He could just watch through the Sky HD box obviously and not bother but for normal viewing (ch1-5 + BBC HD) he'll probably geat a cleaner picture using the TV's inbuilt freesat tuner.

Or do you have to buy a quad LNB and run a new line in - not a problem, just a bit more work/money.

Cheers all.

[Gingerbread Man]

I was recently looking to install Freesat which uses the same feeds, I was told that you can't tee off the cable like you can with analogue TV/ Freeview. It has to be a new run from the dish to work.

[Tuna]

No. At least not as I understand it.

The Sky box actually feeds the LNB with a voltage specific to the part of the satellite it's decoding. Each satellite broadcasts channels in a number of 'blocks' and each block has to be selected by the sky box before it can decode anything. At best you would only be able to watch channels in the same block (e.g. you might not be able to watch Sky One and Channel 4 at the same time). At worst, the boxes could fry each other trying to select different blocks.

[Cupramax]

dave_s13 said:

Or do you have to buy a quad LNB and run a new line in - not a problem, just a bit more work/money.

Cheers all.

I had Sky HD installed in my new place last week, they use quad Lnb's now by default for HD incase you want it in more than one room so slipped the installer a few notes and got him to run an extra feed to my bedroom for freesat. Job done.

[dave_s13]

Yeah I didn't think it was that easy.

Thanks for the confirmation chaps.

It's a pain in the arris having numpty mates. He only ever turns on his PC when he mistakes it for the kettle. Feckin luddite he is.

[dave_s13]

Cupramax said:

dave_s13 said:

Or do you have to buy a quad LNB and run a new line in - not a problem, just a bit more work/money.

Cheers all.

I had Sky HD installed in my new place last week, they use quad Lnb's now by default for HD incase you want it in more than one room so slipped the installer a few notes and got him to run an extra feed to my bedroom for freesat. Job done.

I told him to do this. But he didn't...the to$$er.

[LocoBlade]

You can use a cheap A/B switch to break into one of the Sky feeds and direct it to the Freesat as Ive done as a temporary measure, Maplin sell one for about £8. With this solution you obviously only have Freesat OR Sky depending on switch position, not both. That means you can't reliably record from Sky though, because depending on whether the Sky box is in standby and/or the channel you want to record is already selected, Sky won't always record off the second LNB which means you would miss the recording if you were switched to Freesat.

[Marvindodgers]

Tuna said:

No. At least not as I understand it.

The Sky box actually feeds the LNB with a voltage specific to the part of the satellite it's decoding. Each satellite broadcasts channels in a number of 'blocks' and each block has to be selected by the sky box before it can decode anything. At best you would only be able to watch channels in the same block (e.g. you might not be able to watch Sky One and Channel 4 at the same time). At worst, the boxes could fry each other trying to select different blocks.

This explains everything for me. I thought I'd try splitting the Sky cable with an F connector splitter to feed the Freesat socket on my Panasonic TV. I got some channels and not others through the Freesat this way. The only channel I was actually bothered about getting through Freesat was BBC HD and that one doesn't get a service, while other stuff I already get through Sky happily appear! Typical - back to the drawing board!

[LocoBlade]

Marvindodgers said:

Tuna said:

No. At least not as I understand it.

The Sky box actually feeds the LNB with a voltage specific to the part of the satellite it's decoding. Each satellite broadcasts channels in a number of 'blocks' and each block has to be selected by the sky box before it can decode anything. At best you would only be able to watch channels in the same block (e.g. you might not be able to watch Sky One and Channel 4 at the same time). At worst, the boxes could fry each other trying to select different blocks.

This explains everything for me. I thought I'd try splitting the Sky cable with an F connector splitter to feed the Freesat socket on my Panasonic TV. I got some channels and not others through the Freesat this way. The only channel I was actually bothered about getting through Freesat was BBC HD and that one doesn't get a service, while other stuff I already get through Sky happily appear! Typical - back to the drawing board!

I think there's 4 different "blocks" of channels on the Sky satellite, so you may find that if you changed the channel on your Sky box, BBC HD would work because in theory you have a 1 in 4 chance of finding the channel you want, but as mentioned if two devices are fighting for control of the LNB, it could damage the devices so not worth risking.

[redtwin]

"if two devices are fighting for control of the LNB, it could damage the devices so not worth risking."

I have a quad LNB feeding a Freesat HDR (2 feeds), a freesat SD (1 feed) and 2 Sky boxes (1 feed split into 2). The Sky boxes are rarely used so haven't tried all the channels on them, but from what I have tried, all the channels seem to work fine.

Would I be doing damage to any of the boxes or the LNB with the above setup?.

[dave_s13]

On a related note.

Is it, in fact, generally accepted that the freesat SD/HD picture will be superior to the Sky SD/HD one?

I would assume that it would be given Sky's insistance on broadcasting stuff at a derisery bitrate. Some of theire SD stuff can look super ropey sometimes.

[redtwin]

As I understand it, my TV (and other HD sets) upscales signals it receives through its HDMI ports so my Freesat HD box connected via HDMI would look better than the Sky box connected via scart even for the same SD program. I am open to correction on this of course, but if the above is correct then it may be that freesat is no better than Sky?.

[Super Slo Mo]

dave_s13 said:

On a related note.

Is it, in fact, generally accepted that the freesat SD/HD picture will be superior to the Sky SD/HD one?

I would assume that it would be given Sky's insistance on broadcasting stuff at a derisery bitrate. Some of theire SD stuff can look super ropey sometimes.

Not sure what the bitrate is on Sky compared to Freesat, but obviously, the lower the bitrate, in general, the lower the picture quality (give or take a bit).

You can use a 2 or 4 way satellite splitter (Maplin sell them for a few quid), this passes the voltage to the LNB from one receiver only (not sure if you need to turn the other off, or if it's just blocked in the splitter). Unfortunately, it's not as flexible as a multi-way LNB, since you're restricted over what you can watch simultaneously (something to do with transmission polarity). They're fine though if you watch one receiver or another at a time.

Be aware though that there are fairly significant losses associated with a splitter. Your best option by far is to fit a 2 or 4 way LNB, since each receiver gets a dedicated feed.

[headcase]

Freesat uses the same Satellite, same transponder same channels as sky so the bitrate is the same as the signal is the same. It may be possible that a freesat reciever may be of better quality than a sky box so it is possible.

As for upscaling then a HD tv has to upscale an SD image in order for it to fill the screen, so as for upscaling sat boxes its a case of weather the upscaler in the sat box is better than the upscaler in the TV, TBH there usually isnt much in it. Its normally better to set the ouput of your sat box to as high as possible tht way the TV isnt switching resolutions with different programs and that can become annoying after a while.

[hwassall]

Super Slo Mo said:

dave_s13 said:

On a related note.

Is it, in fact, generally accepted that the freesat SD/HD picture will be superior to the Sky SD/HD one?

I would assume that it would be given Sky's insistance on broadcasting stuff at a derisery bitrate. Some of theire SD stuff can look super ropey sometimes.

Not sure what the bitrate is on Sky compared to Freesat, but obviously, the lower the bitrate, in general, the lower the picture quality (give or take a bit).

You can use a 2 or 4 way satellite splitter (Maplin sell them for a few quid), this passes the voltage to the LNB from one receiver only (not sure if you need to turn the other off, or if it's just blocked in the splitter). Unfortunately, it's not as flexible as a multi-way LNB, since you're restricted over what you can watch simultaneously (something to do with transmission polarity). They're fine though if you watch one receiver or another at a time.

Be aware though that there are fairly significant losses associated with a splitter. Your best option by far is to fit a 2 or 4 way LNB, since each receiver gets a dedicated feed.

It's polarisation. The behaviour of an LNB is driven by voltage, one voltage selects vertical polarisation and another horizontal. The various channels are divided up across the two polarisations. If you split the output from an LNB to two receivers, depending on which channels they are trying to select, they may try to drive the LNB with different voltages. As said, the splitters normally only allow one receiver to drive the LNB and so the other receiver(s) will be restricted to the polarisation selected by that one.

[JimNoble]

hwassall said:

It's polarisation. The behaviour of an LNB is driven by voltage, one voltage selects vertical polarisation and another horizontal. The various channels are divided up across the two polarisations. If you split the output from an LNB to two receivers, depending on which channels they are trying to select, they may try to drive the LNB with different voltages. As said, the splitters normally only allow one receiver to drive the LNB and so the other receiver(s) will be restricted to the polarisation selected by that one.

There are also High and Low bands, selected by the presence or lack of a 22kHz tone signal.

Jim

[Mroad]

I have a single LNB feed split between a bog standard Sky box (Panasonic) and a Humax Foxsat HD freesat receiver using this splitter from maplins (or similar) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=9273
The splitter only allows control of the LNB via one feed so no voltage issues.
With my set up the control of the LNB is done by the Sky box (master) and the Humax Freesat is the slave.
I can get BBC HD (freesat channel 108) via the Humax if the Sky box is set to BBC 1 (channel 101).
It works superbly. The quality of the Humax is great too.
I can also get ITV HD on the Freesat (Channel 103 and red button) with the Sky set to CH4 (channel 104).
I previously tried this set-up using a cheap refurb Ferguson Freesat HD box and it was a bit hit and miss.

You have to connect the Freesat up initially as the main controller of the LNB in order for it tune in all the channels. After that it can be moved to the 'slave' output.

As has been said you will only get certain 'blocks' of channels on the slave receiver depending on the channel the 'master' is set to.

[LocoBlade]

Mroad said:

I have a single LNB feed split between a bog standard Sky box (Panasonic) and a Humax Foxsat HD freesat receiver using this splitter from maplins (or similar) http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=9273
The splitter only allows control of the LNB via one feed so no voltage issues.
With my set up the control of the LNB is done by the Sky box (master) and the Humax Freesat is the slave.
I can get BBC HD (freesat channel 108) via the Humax if the Sky box is set to BBC 1 (channel 101).
It works superbly. The quality of the Humax is great too.
I can also get ITV HD on the Freesat (Channel 103 and red button) with the Sky set to CH4 (channel 104).
I previously tried this set-up using a cheap refurb Ferguson Freesat HD box and it was a bit hit and miss.

You have to connect the Freesat up initially as the main controller of the LNB in order for it tune in all the channels. After that it can be moved to the 'slave' output.

As has been said you will only get certain 'blocks' of channels on the slave receiver depending on the channel the 'master' is set to.

I dont think that will work as well with a Sky+ or Sky HD box with two LNB feeds though, because depending on what you're recording/watching and/or whether the box is off when recordings start, the feed you're watching/controlling isn't always from the same LNB.