Bi - Wiring speakers or not?

[Jeux]

is it really worth it for mid range speakers and equipment?? have heard arguments both for and against, - just interested to hear other opinions...

[t84]

Bi wiring or Bi amping?

[Jeux]

Bi Wiring....

[Graham E]

IMO most people tend to compare 2 runs of £10 speaker cable vs 1 run of £10 cable. This means biwiring wins 99% of the time. I'm yet to be totally convinced re. biwire vs better single wire - they're pretty similar overall IMO. That said, my current setup is biwired fronts, single centre and rears. This is more of a hangover from my old biamp setup than a concious decision to biwire.

edited to speell propperley

Edited by Graham E on Wednesday 2nd December 09:16

[Incredible Sulk]

Have a shufti at this......

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/au...

If you get confused by the maths, just skip to the conclusion, which is that..................

[RedLeicester]

Bi-amping: yes.
Bi-wiring: pointless.

[Jeux]

thanks all, think I'll go with the straight forward non bi wired set up if it's that inconclusive, -- and save about £75 on cables...

[bodhi]

I biwired mine and noticed a massive difference - the sound was far clearer and punchier, treble definition was improved and it was easier to differentiate between different instruments. I tried it out with bell wire first before taking the plunge, and with my system, the difference was night and day. I'm running

Marantz PM66-Ki Sig
Marantz CD63 MkII KI Sig
Mission 733i's

I'd say there was a bigger difference between 1 and 2 strands of bellwire than there was between the bellwire and moving up to Lin speaker cable. So I personally woud look in to biwiring with cheaper cable rather than single wiring with the expensive stuff.

[wiffmaster]

I bi-wired my B&W 602s and noticed absolutely no difference whatsoever. Now back to single wires. I'm sure it makes a difference on very high end equipment, but it certainly didn't on mine.

[Jeux]

its not a particularly good system ( it's in the kitchen so accoustics are quite ecco'y) - Arcam cd player and Amp and MS914i speakers.. still waiting for the speaker cable to arrive from futureshop - the terminations cost almost as much as the cable as its only a 2m run! so shall have a play at the weekend with the single reasonable cable , and try switching with slightly older , non terminated cable in a bi wire set up to see if i can notice anything - but not really a subjective test as wil be using good single cable vs older bi wire, as suggested before...


edited for fat fingers spelling

Edited by Jeux on Wednesday 2nd December 10:18

[Plotloss]

We don't do it in a professional capacity, mainly because I've never heard a difference at any market point.

[Jeux]

i know its quite sad, but i looking forward to getting my new cables in the post today... or tomorrow.. or friday....

[Zod]

I'm going to admit that my speakers are biwired, but only becase at one stage they were biamped and so I left them that way when I upgraded to better monoblocs. I can't tell the difference.

[CRACKIE]

RedLeicester said:

Bi-amping: yes.
Bi-wiring: pointless.

+1 Bi-wiring still uses a common amplifier output stage for each cable run ~ why should there be any improvement ?

[theboss]

Can't say I've noticed a difference with bi-wiring mine in the past but as I'm bi-amping I needed to buy the extra cable pair anyway.

Is it not feasible that it could make a difference - particularly with very poor cable - purely because you're doubling up on the conductors rather than because you may be 'segregating' frequency ranges onto dedicated runs... just thinking of the previous poster who claimed to hear a big difference with bell wire... as surely two runs are better than one... I don't want this to turn into a "bell wire vs. proper cable" debate though...

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:35

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:38

[CRACKIE]

theboss said:

Can't say I've noticed a difference with bi-wiring mine in the past but as I'm bi-amping I needed to buy the extra cable pair anyway.

Is it not feasible that it could make a difference - particularly with very poor cable - purely because you're doubling up on the conductors rather than because you may be 'segregating' frequency ranges onto dedicated runs... just thinking of the previous poster who claimed to hear a big difference with bell wire... as surely two runs are better than one... I don't want this to turn into a "bell wire vs. proper cable" debate though...

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:35

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:38

The people who advocate bi-wiring usually talk up the advantages of keeping the higher current bass signals away from the smaller HF signals because of intermodulation issues, magnetic induction issues etc etc. I haven't heard any real advantages even with bell wire. I've been lucky enough to have worked in the past with acoustic engineers from KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Acoustic Energy, B&W & Spendor ; most have said "spend the money on better speakers not more cable" or words to that effect.

[qube_TA]

The electrical circuit is identical so it shouldn't make any difference.

I ran in 2 sets of cables on my hi-fi so that if I ever decide to be poncy and run 2 amps I won't have to pull the floor up!

[theboss]

CRACKIE said:

theboss said:

Can't say I've noticed a difference with bi-wiring mine in the past but as I'm bi-amping I needed to buy the extra cable pair anyway.

Is it not feasible that it could make a difference - particularly with very poor cable - purely because you're doubling up on the conductors rather than because you may be 'segregating' frequency ranges onto dedicated runs... just thinking of the previous poster who claimed to hear a big difference with bell wire... as surely two runs are better than one... I don't want this to turn into a "bell wire vs. proper cable" debate though...

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:35

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:38

The people who advocate bi-wiring usually talk up the advantages of keeping the higher current bass signals away from the smaller HF signals because of intermodulation issues, magnetic induction issues etc etc. I haven't heard any real advantages even with bell wire. I've been lucky enough to have worked in the past with acoustic engineers from KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Acoustic Energy, B&W & Spendor ; most have said "spend the money on better speakers not more cable" or words to that effect.

I'm not 'religious' about cable myself, but isn't it worth bearing in mind that all of the manufacturers you mention make speakers and not cable? Their guys *are* going to say that then, surely?

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 19:27

[Graham E]

With regard to the great cable debate, I know better than to try to convert 50% of the internet. However, from memory, e.g B+W 602 with Chord rumour sounds better than B+W 603 on 42 strand. Both cables are pretty similar thickness, the prices are very different. 603's were also 600 wuid, vs (350?) for 602. Each to their own though =)

[CRACKIE]

theboss said:

CRACKIE said:

theboss said:

Can't say I've noticed a difference with bi-wiring mine in the past but as I'm bi-amping I needed to buy the extra cable pair anyway.

Is it not feasible that it could make a difference - particularly with very poor cable - purely because you're doubling up on the conductors rather than because you may be 'segregating' frequency ranges onto dedicated runs... just thinking of the previous poster who claimed to hear a big difference with bell wire... as surely two runs are better than one... I don't want this to turn into a "bell wire vs. proper cable" debate though...

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:35

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 17:38

The people who advocate bi-wiring usually talk up the advantages of keeping the higher current bass signals away from the smaller HF signals because of intermodulation issues, magnetic induction issues etc etc. I haven't heard any real advantages even with bell wire. I've been lucky enough to have worked in the past with acoustic engineers from KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Acoustic Energy, B&W & Spendor ; most have said "spend the money on better speakers not more cable" or words to that effect.

I'm not 'religious' about cable myself, but isn't it worth bearing in mind that all of the manufacturers you mention make speakers and not cable? Their guys *are* going to say that then, surely?

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 2nd December 19:27

Understood but some also marketed their own speaker cable too( at far higher retail margin ) They were not trying to sell me any of their speakers, it was advice which came about when discussing best sound for your budget. Cynical maybe but IMHO speaker companies like to market Bi-Wire 'cos they can have another papragraph of techy sounding blurb in the brochure and a pretty gold plated picture in there too. AVI's passive speakers have a reputation up with the very best but their products are single wire only. Spendor recommend single wiring on their website. Have search on some of the professional or studio forums regarding the subject.

Bi-amping is another matter altogether and to do this you need the independant LF/HF terminals.

Edited by CRACKIE on Thursday 3rd December 15:06