Is there any way to tame a sub in an alcove?

[Griffith4ever]

I live in an old cottage now. My old place had a huge living room with very high ceilings. I ran an ASW 750 B&W sub - bloody monster of a thing. 12".

In my new place its a "snug", not a living room ;-)

I tried the sub in teh alcove as per below but it was boomy and overpowering, even turned down.

I've since put a baby sub up front - BK Gemini 150. It's tunefull, and subtle, but has to be run on literally 0.5 out of 10 to prevent distortion during movie crashes and bangs. I'd like to use my ASW 750 , but it really has to live in the alcove due to its size.

Is there ANY way to tame a sub positioned like that? or is it just a non starter?

The end of the large open fireplace is a solid thick old wall. It really is an alcove.

[RSTurboPaul]

Do you have any digital EQ in the system, e.g. Audyssey or similar?

You might need to download REW (Room EQ Wizard) to calculate room nodes / best seating positions.

[Griffith4ever]

My Denon has Audissy

[D.warrengolf]

Griffith4ever said:

My Denon has Audissy

Give Acoustix a go, it's done wonders for my system.

[Mazinbrum]

I thought this thread was about something completely different, wrong forum!

[Techno9000]

Have you run the Audyssey calibration since putting the B&W in the alcove?
If so, was the Sub within the limits they indicate before moving on to the rest of the calibration?
Is the Sub overpowering when listening to stereo music or only on Surround sound movies? If only on movies, is the LFE channel been adjusted?

[Griffith4ever]

D.warrengolf said:

Griffith4ever said:

My Denon has Audissy

Give Acoustix a go, it's done wonders for my system.

Bugger, seems my X2200W is too old - mind you - been looking for an upgrade excuse......

[Composeriser]

What are you looking to achieve with the sub? Just subtle bass extension for music or full on LFE for film? And is this part of a 5.1 setup or just 2.1?

[Griffith4ever]

Composeriser said:

What are you looking to achieve with the sub? Just subtle bass extension for music or full on LFE for film? And is this part of a 5.1 setup or just 2.1?

Its exclusively for TV/movies - I just want nice smooth low end "addition" that my tiny Q acoustics can't do. 5.1

I've plopped it up front for now, on a VERY low gain to ease it off. We tried Eurovision last night (I know...) and it was just too much so backed it right off. I want it to be low, but unobtrusive.

The little BK Gemini 150 did a beautiful job of adding very subtle low end without being "obvious" with 90% of material - but, throw something a bit explody at it and it distorts.. The B&W is a beast and isn't so subtle.

I've not moved it to the back alcove yet. Am pondering on a small upgrade to the next model (AVR) to get access to A1 Acoustix.

I just like bass that is deep and "part" of the sound track, NOT earth shaking overpowering. I DID like it like that in a big room, but in a small room at lower volumes I want subtelty.

I'm still undecided if it should be LFE, or mains+LFE - could do with advice on that too. Just movies. Music is in ..... the music room (posh name for conservatory). Snug/lounge - Mains are Q acoustics 2010i with matching centre.

[RSTurboPaul]

Have you run Audyssey?

[Griffith4ever]

RSTurboPaul said:

Have you run Audyssey?

Indeed - and it completely overbaked the sub, which I dialled right back. I get the feeling Audissy can't really measure the lFE properly with it's little supplied mic. Could be wrong of course.

[Red9zero]

Mazinbrum said:

I thought this thread was about something completely different, wrong forum!

I think I saw something similar on Reddit

[Griffith4ever]

Red9zero said:

Mazinbrum said:

I thought this thread was about something completely different, wrong forum!

I think I saw something similar on Reddit

Bring out the gimp

[Techno9000]

Griffith4ever said:

Its exclusively for TV/movies - I just want nice smooth low end "addition" that my tiny Q acoustics can't do. 5.1

….

I'm still undecided if it should be LFE, or mains+LFE - could do with advice on that too. Just movies. Music is in ..... the music room (posh name for conservatory). Snug/lounge - Mains are Q acoustics 2010i with matching centre.

Given the 2010i has a 4” driver it’s not going to do deep bass, so Main + LFE is required.

Do you run the Audyssey calibration each time you move or change the speakers / sub ?
If so, was the Sub within the limits they indicate before moving on to the rest of the calibration?
Is the Sub overpowering when listening to stereo music or only on Surround sound movies? If only on movies, is the LFE channel been adjusted?

[Composeriser]

Griffith4ever said:

Composeriser said:

What are you looking to achieve with the sub? Just subtle bass extension for music or full on LFE for film? And is this part of a 5.1 setup or just 2.1? ,

Its exclusively for TV/movies - I just want nice smooth low end "addition" that my tiny Q acoustics can't do. 5.1

I've plopped it up front for now, on a VERY low gain to ease it off. We tried Eurovision last night (I know...) and it was just too much so backed it right off. I want it to be low, but unobtrusive.

The little BK Gemini 150 did a beautiful job of adding very subtle low end without being "obvious" with 90% of material - but, throw something a bit explody at it and it distorts.. The B&W is a beast and isn't so subtle.

I've not moved it to the back alcove yet. Am pondering on a small upgrade to the next model (AVR) to get access to A1 Acoustix.

I just like bass that is deep and "part" of the sound track, NOT earth shaking overpowering. I DID like it like that in a big room, but in a small room at lower volumes I want subtelty.

I'm still undecided if it should be LFE, or mains+LFE - could do with advice on that too. Just movies. Music is in ..... the music room (posh name for conservatory). Snug/lounge - Mains are Q acoustics 2010i with matching centre.

Theoretically subs can sit anywhere as frequencies below about 150 hz are omnidirectional. But I would suggest you put some music and a film you know well on your system and walk around your room and experience where you hear lots of bass and also minimal bass. Yes you have a small room but nodes and antinodes will still be very apparent. Move the sub around if you can too and each time you move it, alk around.

Ultimately I would suggest getting your sub out of that alcove if you can because you will be plagued by standing waves and eigentons. Only other thing I’d suggest is stuffing a big bass trap in the alcove too if there’s room.

Edited by Composeriser on Monday 18th May 00:27

Edited by Composeriser on Monday 18th May 00:29

Edited by Composeriser on Monday 18th May 01:12

[RSTurboPaul]

Griffith4ever said:

RSTurboPaul said:

Have you run Audyssey?

Indeed - and it completely overbaked the sub, which I dialled right back. I get the feeling Audissy can't really measure the lFE properly with it's little supplied mic. Could be wrong of course.

If Audyssey needs a big boost at the lower end to (try to) achieve a 'flat' in-room response at the bottom end <30Hz (or whatever the sub cuts off at), perhaps it needs the sub run at a fairly high level to achieve that - but setting the sub at that level then means Audyssey cannot cut enough further up the range, where the mid-bass boom is, because it has 'maxed out' the cut in that boomy range, to -12dB (or whatever it is) but it is not enough?

Perhaps the answer is Mooooar Sub so that the lower end is more easily provided and the sub(s) can be turned down lower, meaning Audyssey needs to cut less higher up.

[Griffith4ever]

RSTurboPaul said:

Griffith4ever said:

RSTurboPaul said:

Have you run Audyssey?

Indeed - and it completely overbaked the sub, which I dialled right back. I get the feeling Audissy can't really measure the lFE properly with it's little supplied mic. Could be wrong of course.

If Audyssey needs a big boost at the lower end to (try to) achieve a 'flat' in-room response at the bottom end <30Hz (or whatever the sub cuts off at), perhaps it needs the sub run at a fairly high level to achieve that - but setting the sub at that level then means Audyssey cannot cut enough further up the range, where the mid-bass boom is, because it has 'maxed out' the cut in that boomy range, to -12dB (or whatever it is) but it is not enough?

Perhaps the answer is Mooooar Sub so that the lower end is more easily provided and the sub(s) can be turned down lower, meaning Audyssey needs to cut less higher up.

Well the ASW750 is already way too big for the room. I'm just replacing two capacitors on the Gemini 150 and then I'll prob just run with that. I just dont' think the ASW750 is suited to such a small "snug". It's "Fugly" too.

My ASW750: (with dinky Q Acoustics speakers)



Vs my little 8" (the cone is 7" really) Gemini 150 (currently inside out as waiting for two capacitors - they were humming)



I'm eyeing up a used AVR-X2700W whcih will run A1 Acoustix.....

Really, I'd like the really subtle control of the Gemin with the ability to not distory during very loud scenes. I'm sure the ASW will do it. I just need to play more.

[RSTurboPaul]

What is this 'too big for the room' concept that you speak of?

[Griffith4ever]

RSTurboPaul said:

What is this 'too big for the room' concept that you speak of?

Haha - from a previous owner of a Paradigm Servo 15, in a london mid terrace house, I understand ;-)