Any thougts on USB DACs?
Discussion
I'm looking for a USB DAC to sit between a laptop and a modest 'last century' amp'n'speakers in my little office.
Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
OutInTheShed said:
I'm looking for a USB DAC to sit between a laptop and a modest 'last century' amp'n'speakers in my little office.
Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
What are you looking to spend?Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
And if USB in, what 'out' do you need (ie RCA etc)?
I'd highly recommend the SMSL or Topping DACs; this one is a little belter (brother has it in his system):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/S-M-S-L-MQA-CD-Decoder-AK...
This would be a good 'simple' DAC for USB; you'd just need a decetn 3.5mm to RCA cable to connect it to your hifi:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-Audio-Dongle-USB-C-3-...
Edited by danb79 on Wednesday 4th December 15:14
Topping D50 III.
About as clean and pure of a dac you can get regardless of price.
Can be had next day for £230 on Amazon.
Depends what you want from a dac. That will let everything though with incredibly low noise on it or timing errors, it does however mean it is very....not sure what to call it, lively?
Depending what you are putting it with amp and speaker wise you might need to EQ it, oh, it has EQ built in too, which is a bonus.
I think there may have been an issue with the optical input on it though, where it clicks between tracks when playing 44.1. Probably sorted now.
It is an Audiscience favourite, but they are all about measurements, not listening. Which to me is a flawed science.
They like to set everything up so it matches and then say "There is no difference."
"No way!?"
I saw someone arguing last night that they were wrong about their amp beating a forum favourite amp because he was obviously playing it too loud with speakers that were too much of a load on that forum favourite amp.
But you spend more money on an amp so it can play at the volumes you want to listen at and drive the speakers you like. That is the point.
About as clean and pure of a dac you can get regardless of price.
Can be had next day for £230 on Amazon.
Depends what you want from a dac. That will let everything though with incredibly low noise on it or timing errors, it does however mean it is very....not sure what to call it, lively?
Depending what you are putting it with amp and speaker wise you might need to EQ it, oh, it has EQ built in too, which is a bonus.
I think there may have been an issue with the optical input on it though, where it clicks between tracks when playing 44.1. Probably sorted now.
It is an Audiscience favourite, but they are all about measurements, not listening. Which to me is a flawed science.
They like to set everything up so it matches and then say "There is no difference."
"No way!?"
I saw someone arguing last night that they were wrong about their amp beating a forum favourite amp because he was obviously playing it too loud with speakers that were too much of a load on that forum favourite amp.
But you spend more money on an amp so it can play at the volumes you want to listen at and drive the speakers you like. That is the point.
The point with measuring is to determine the actual fidelity of the equipment. Does it accurately convey the source material, with a flat response and minimum noise/distortion? If you want the sound to have more bass, apply some EQ (or ideally, everything in the chain should have a flat response and then choose the speakers to add whatever "colour" you want).
Alternatively, choose some "bright" speakers and then match it with a "warm" amp but then the DAC has a midrange spike so you need to tame that with smoother pre-amp and then add some colouration with the speaker cables, ensuring that they don't cancel out the transient bass response of the interconnects....
Alternatively, choose some "bright" speakers and then match it with a "warm" amp but then the DAC has a midrange spike so you need to tame that with smoother pre-amp and then add some colouration with the speaker cables, ensuring that they don't cancel out the transient bass response of the interconnects....
A mete loaned me a USB DAC/headphone amp.
Which was great as a DAC,
But the whole thing of having the DAC physically plugged in to the laptop has turned out to be annoying.
So I'm dusting off a pi-based music server thingummy effort.
Also, it turns out the DAC in the laptop is pretty good!
Which was great as a DAC,
But the whole thing of having the DAC physically plugged in to the laptop has turned out to be annoying.
So I'm dusting off a pi-based music server thingummy effort.
Also, it turns out the DAC in the laptop is pretty good!
I have an Audioquest Dragonfly black which I think is the best £60 I've ever spent on hifi.
I've used it on a few different systems, first one being Kenwood KA3020SE and Wharfedale diamond 9s, a Rega IO and Dali Zensor 1s and currently a NAD c326 with the Dalis.
Fantastic little gadget.
I've used it on a few different systems, first one being Kenwood KA3020SE and Wharfedale diamond 9s, a Rega IO and Dali Zensor 1s and currently a NAD c326 with the Dalis.
Fantastic little gadget.
TEKNOPUG said:
The point with measuring is to determine the actual fidelity of the equipment. Does it accurately convey the source material, with a flat response and minimum noise/distortion? If you want the sound to have more bass, apply some EQ (or ideally, everything in the chain should have a flat response and then choose the speakers to add whatever "colour" you want).
Alternatively, choose some "bright" speakers and then match it with a "warm" amp but then the DAC has a midrange spike so you need to tame that with smoother pre-amp and then add some colouration with the speaker cables, ensuring that they don't cancel out the transient bass response of the interconnects....
I was talking more about the am measurements etc. however, playing devil's advocate here a little, but...Alternatively, choose some "bright" speakers and then match it with a "warm" amp but then the DAC has a midrange spike so you need to tame that with smoother pre-amp and then add some colouration with the speaker cables, ensuring that they don't cancel out the transient bass response of the interconnects....
That would be great if everything in the chain was colour free.
It is not.
Everything single part of the chain from the mics to the mixers to the studio monitors to the way each engineer hears differently is colouring the sound.
An engineer will hear things very differently in his 50s to how he remembers it sounding when he mixed it in his 30s I'm sure.
Music and we are talking systems here, are always, and I mean always, about the one you like the sound of best, because no one knows how it was meant to sound in the first place anyway.
I like valve amps, many of which measure terribly.
But I still listen to loads of older albums and they were all mastered for, and on, very coloured systems. I still have an old Quad amp and some Celestion Dittons, and if you playback some early Floyd it sounds amazing. Play back say something like Soulwax's Essentail Six and they sound like absolute pants.
But I agree with you on DACs, hence why I suggested the D50 III, I do think that DACs that have very low noise and measure well are a very good starting point.
Mind you, I think the D50 III has 10 different filters in it, so loads of variations these days within the same dac. Plus the EQ of course.
I also think EQ'ing a system is also not to be sniffed at, like so many still do. Decent EQ'ing can make building a system so much easier.
Get some speakers that don't sound boxy, an amp with enough volume to play without stressing and a bit of EQ can make it sound like systems costing far more money.
The Yamaha amps do incredibly well for very little money.
My gripe with the Audioscience lot are they 'sometimes' go too far with measurements.
A) They can't enjoy a system that sounds good if the measurements are not good, which is just silly. "It doesn't matter how good a system sounds, how much I love it, if I know it doesn't measure right I simply won't listen to it."
Those sort of comments are just ridiculous.
B) All this level matching down to the lowest common denominator is just plain dumb. Most systems sound great, and pretty much the same, pumping out 5 or 10 watts.
The fact we have DACs that perform so well for such little money these days is just amazing really, and when we have streamers like the WiiM Pro Plus with decent EQ built in, which can transform even a budget amp and speakers, means it is a very good time to be into listening to music imho.
OutInTheShed said:
I'm looking for a USB DAC to sit between a laptop and a modest 'last century' amp'n'speakers in my little office.
Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
If I haven’t got you mixed up with someone else, you don’t mind a bit of tinkering.. you might like a design I came up with a few years ago: Not sure how the 'diminishing returns' apply between a £15 chip and say a Cambridge DACmagic?
I mention the Cambridge, because I've had a shufty at the schematic and appreciate there's some proper analogue filtering going on.
Happy to buy something used.
A lot of brands out there I've never heard of.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jambo-dac.288159/#...
The Cambridge Audio DAC magic came a few years later so I didn’t copy their design
I have a few kits left and would love to see the back of them if you’d like a project.
Jambo85 said:
If I haven’t got you mixed up with someone else, you don’t mind a bit of tinkering.. you might like a design I came up with a few years ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jambo-dac.288159/#...
The Cambridge Audio DAC magic came a few years later so I didn’t copy their design
I have a few kits left and would love to see the back of them if you’d like a project.
Thanks, I'll have good look at that.https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jambo-dac.288159/#...
The Cambridge Audio DAC magic came a few years later so I didn’t copy their design
I have a few kits left and would love to see the back of them if you’d like a project.
I have here a CD player with a duff transport, but a nice DAC. I've wondered about pouring some digits into that...
I have a few other projects on the go. So I really need a quick fix.
Also a sudden rush of 'management buy-in' has moved the goalposts.
'We' now want streaming from phones all over the house.
I got a cheap bluetooth DAC intending to install it in my car, where the CD player is sometimes unco-operative.
I've been playing with that in the office, seems fine for 'background music' at least.
Jambo85 said:
For streaming, Chromecast Audios are a nice solution to bring pretty much any DAC up to date.
I mucked about with various audio-over-wifi stuff years back. My partner never bonded with it.
Bluetooth which 'just works' 'same as in the car' seems to be more palatable, but that may be because we've moved on, phones and computers have been changed, Audio quality seems fine when playing from a phone or ipad in the same room.
The thing I like about Chromecast is that while you can control it from your phone, your phone isn’t doing the streaming, doesn’t need to be in range and isn’t getting its battery caned.. but I understand the issue with the fairer sex!
How about popping one of these into your CD player if you can identify the I2S lines? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254450121443?mkcid=16&a...
How about popping one of these into your CD player if you can identify the I2S lines? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254450121443?mkcid=16&a...
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