Advice on this home cinema/tv room setup
Discussion
Thanks for the comments everyone.
The space is part of the open plan living room, but the “TV area” is 6m x 4m. Agree, on reflection the 8” sounds rather small- think they were trying to get the sub to fit int the media wall- so there was a size constraint.
The soundbar is only there as its a promotion on the TV- being “free”. It wont be part of this setup but used in a separate room.
Any recommendations for a better/more suitable amp/subwoofer?
The space is part of the open plan living room, but the “TV area” is 6m x 4m. Agree, on reflection the 8” sounds rather small- think they were trying to get the sub to fit int the media wall- so there was a size constraint.
The soundbar is only there as its a promotion on the TV- being “free”. It wont be part of this setup but used in a separate room.
Any recommendations for a better/more suitable amp/subwoofer?
I got a BK P12-300SB-DF. It’s all the sub you’ll ever need and works great with music or film:
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/Platinum.ht...
It’s got its own amplifier too.
Power amps and speaker combos are a minefield so I’m not going there. I have gone with NAD Masters and ProAC and it sounds amazing.
http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/Platinum.ht...
It’s got its own amplifier too.
Power amps and speaker combos are a minefield so I’m not going there. I have gone with NAD Masters and ProAC and it sounds amazing.
The TV area might only be small, but if it's an open plan space then bass sound from a sub doesn't care that you only listen in a certain area. The sub is going to have to pressurise the whole space.
REL subs are good. I have two 10" in a small lounge that opens out to the dining room and kitchen beyond. I can close the door if I want greater intensity. REL uses very good drivers and good amps. That's important because it's not just about driver diameter but the quality of it. Having said that, there is a limit.
I have a customer with a cinema room that would have been a 4-car garage back in the '70s when cars were smaller. To give you an idea, it would have accommodated four Cortina 1600Es in a 2x2 layout. Anyway, his system has large speakers all the way around, and (I shudder) a Paradigm PS1000, 10" sub with 120W of power. It's totally out of its depth in the room, but he has it whacked up so it bangs and farts but at least he can hear it. That's one side benefit of being a ported sub.
Eventually the inevitable happened and the sub died. It cooked its transformer. While I was looking at whether it was repairable he went to Richers and the guys there sold him an SVS SB1000-Pro. 10" sealed box, 500W. What they never asked him I'm guessing is about the size of the room. The SVS is completely overwhelmed. Can't hear it because it can't pressurise the room.
Have a rethink on the sub and its position. Having something that looks neat is great, but if it doesn't work then you just wasted your time, their time, and a bunch of your money.
From an installation point of view, a sub in an enclosed space is a PITA to set up unless there's app control. The SVS subs have that. BK are really excellent subs. They made my two RELs. What they lack though is app control. That doesn't matter for me because I use a MiniDSP which does a far better job of individually EQ'ing each sub than any AV receiver can manage. Your installer will hate the idea of BK subs because the firm sells direct. If they're confident that the REL T-7 can pressurise the space then ask them to bring one out and prove it. Try sitting in all the seats to check how even the bass distribution is within the room. That's why I have two subs.
REL subs are good. I have two 10" in a small lounge that opens out to the dining room and kitchen beyond. I can close the door if I want greater intensity. REL uses very good drivers and good amps. That's important because it's not just about driver diameter but the quality of it. Having said that, there is a limit.
I have a customer with a cinema room that would have been a 4-car garage back in the '70s when cars were smaller. To give you an idea, it would have accommodated four Cortina 1600Es in a 2x2 layout. Anyway, his system has large speakers all the way around, and (I shudder) a Paradigm PS1000, 10" sub with 120W of power. It's totally out of its depth in the room, but he has it whacked up so it bangs and farts but at least he can hear it. That's one side benefit of being a ported sub.
Eventually the inevitable happened and the sub died. It cooked its transformer. While I was looking at whether it was repairable he went to Richers and the guys there sold him an SVS SB1000-Pro. 10" sealed box, 500W. What they never asked him I'm guessing is about the size of the room. The SVS is completely overwhelmed. Can't hear it because it can't pressurise the room.
Have a rethink on the sub and its position. Having something that looks neat is great, but if it doesn't work then you just wasted your time, their time, and a bunch of your money.
From an installation point of view, a sub in an enclosed space is a PITA to set up unless there's app control. The SVS subs have that. BK are really excellent subs. They made my two RELs. What they lack though is app control. That doesn't matter for me because I use a MiniDSP which does a far better job of individually EQ'ing each sub than any AV receiver can manage. Your installer will hate the idea of BK subs because the firm sells direct. If they're confident that the REL T-7 can pressurise the space then ask them to bring one out and prove it. Try sitting in all the seats to check how even the bass distribution is within the room. That's why I have two subs.
Lucid_AV said:
The TV area might only be small, but if it's an open plan space then bass sound from a sub doesn't care that you only listen in a certain area. The sub is going to have to pressurise the whole space.
REL subs are good. I have two 10" in a small lounge that opens out to the dining room and kitchen beyond. I can close the door if I want greater intensity. REL uses very good drivers and good amps. That's important because it's not just about driver diameter but the quality of it. Having said that, there is a limit.
I have a customer with a cinema room that would have been a 4-car garage back in the '70s when cars were smaller. To give you an idea, it would have accommodated four Cortina 1600Es in a 2x2 layout. Anyway, his system has large speakers all the way around, and (I shudder) a Paradigm PS1000, 10" sub with 120W of power. It's totally out of its depth in the room, but he has it whacked up so it bangs and farts but at least he can hear it. That's one side benefit of being a ported sub.
Eventually the inevitable happened and the sub died. It cooked its transformer. While I was looking at whether it was repairable he went to Richers and the guys there sold him an SVS SB1000-Pro. 10" sealed box, 500W. What they never asked him I'm guessing is about the size of the room. The SVS is completely overwhelmed. Can't hear it because it can't pressurise the room.
Have a rethink on the sub and its position. Having something that looks neat is great, but if it doesn't work then you just wasted your time, their time, and a bunch of your money.
From an installation point of view, a sub in an enclosed space is a PITA to set up unless there's app control. The SVS subs have that. BK are really excellent subs. They made my two RELs. What they lack though is app control. That doesn't matter for me because I use a MiniDSP which does a far better job of individually EQ'ing each sub than any AV receiver can manage. Your installer will hate the idea of BK subs because the firm sells direct. If they're confident that the REL T-7 can pressurise the space then ask them to bring one out and prove it. Try sitting in all the seats to check how even the bass distribution is within the room. That's why I have two subs.
Excellent- thank you for the incredibly helpful comments. Yes, when I suggested I was concerned about the power of the subwoofer, he suggested that the SVS SB2000 is another common option that they use. To be honest, for starters I prefer the look if it (even if its not on display)- think the gloss black on the REL looks a bit tacky. I have never considered using 2 subs actually- always thought it had to be 1 for some reason, which is why you get the .1 in 5.1 or 7.1 systems. I was also concerned about putting the subs inside the media cabinet incase it causes vibration/reverberations- is that not an issue? REL subs are good. I have two 10" in a small lounge that opens out to the dining room and kitchen beyond. I can close the door if I want greater intensity. REL uses very good drivers and good amps. That's important because it's not just about driver diameter but the quality of it. Having said that, there is a limit.
I have a customer with a cinema room that would have been a 4-car garage back in the '70s when cars were smaller. To give you an idea, it would have accommodated four Cortina 1600Es in a 2x2 layout. Anyway, his system has large speakers all the way around, and (I shudder) a Paradigm PS1000, 10" sub with 120W of power. It's totally out of its depth in the room, but he has it whacked up so it bangs and farts but at least he can hear it. That's one side benefit of being a ported sub.
Eventually the inevitable happened and the sub died. It cooked its transformer. While I was looking at whether it was repairable he went to Richers and the guys there sold him an SVS SB1000-Pro. 10" sealed box, 500W. What they never asked him I'm guessing is about the size of the room. The SVS is completely overwhelmed. Can't hear it because it can't pressurise the room.
Have a rethink on the sub and its position. Having something that looks neat is great, but if it doesn't work then you just wasted your time, their time, and a bunch of your money.
From an installation point of view, a sub in an enclosed space is a PITA to set up unless there's app control. The SVS subs have that. BK are really excellent subs. They made my two RELs. What they lack though is app control. That doesn't matter for me because I use a MiniDSP which does a far better job of individually EQ'ing each sub than any AV receiver can manage. Your installer will hate the idea of BK subs because the firm sells direct. If they're confident that the REL T-7 can pressurise the space then ask them to bring one out and prove it. Try sitting in all the seats to check how even the bass distribution is within the room. That's why I have two subs.
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000-pro?srslt...
Really, I’d be more concerned about the equipment and placement than the way it looks. Enclosed anything for the sake of athletics will be a compromise and if you cannot move it about to get the best sound, you’ll be disappointed. Stuff in cabinets can overheat too, causing failure so ventilation is important.
As above, BK are hand made and brilliant value with great performance. I set mine up by ear and haven’t touched the settings in 7 years. Who needs an app?
As above, BK are hand made and brilliant value with great performance. I set mine up by ear and haven’t touched the settings in 7 years. Who needs an app?
Edited by KingGary on Friday 20th September 19:06
I see you're going for the Focal 300 speakers. I have a set of those but went for the ON-wall version instead of IN-wall. Having a proper cabinet really helps things along.
You certainly shouldn't need a soundbar IMO. I'd cheerfully recommend a basic Anthem amp to run those speakers.
That 77" TV screen is pretty darned big. Unless you have a very large room it'll be a bit like sitting in the front row at the cinema. I went for a 65" and it does the job nicely.
You certainly shouldn't need a soundbar IMO. I'd cheerfully recommend a basic Anthem amp to run those speakers.
That 77" TV screen is pretty darned big. Unless you have a very large room it'll be a bit like sitting in the front row at the cinema. I went for a 65" and it does the job nicely.
Room dimensions and size is critical when choosing speakers including the sub size. Room finisjes will also impact the sound substantially.
An AV amp with decent DSP(room correction) like Dirac Live or similar is recommended. It seems little point in spending a not insubstantial amount on components if the room acoustics doesn't suit them. Consider some acoustic treatment although aesthetically this can be challenging. Has your AV supplier mentioned this?
I find Darko Audio quite helpful as although he reviews Hi Fi components he does cover room acoustics and treatment.
An AV amp with decent DSP(room correction) like Dirac Live or similar is recommended. It seems little point in spending a not insubstantial amount on components if the room acoustics doesn't suit them. Consider some acoustic treatment although aesthetically this can be challenging. Has your AV supplier mentioned this?
I find Darko Audio quite helpful as although he reviews Hi Fi components he does cover room acoustics and treatment.
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Saturday 21st September 11:37
R33FAL said:
Excellent- thank you for the incredibly helpful comments. Yes, when I suggested I was concerned about the power of the subwoofer, he suggested that the SVS SB2000 is another common option that they use. To be honest, for starters I prefer the look if it (even if its not on display)- think the gloss black on the REL looks a bit tacky. I have never considered using 2 subs actually- always thought it had to be 1 for some reason, which is why you get the .1 in 5.1 or 7.1 systems. I was also concerned about putting the subs inside the media cabinet incase it causes vibration/reverberations- is that not an issue?
https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000-pro?srslt...
You're correct. Putting the sub in the cabinet will be a challenge for all sorts of reasons. Have a read of this article from Sound & Vision mag https://www.soundandvision.com/content/cabinet-sub...https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-2000-pro?srslt...
Regarding single woofer, no, that's some confusion between the audio file being 5.1 and the way that translated to early AV receivers which were also 5.1
Think about the number of seats in a decent sized cinema. There's going to be as many as 500 for some of the larger screens. There's no way that a single sub can provide even bass over that many seating positions. What they do then is take the mono LFE track and amplify it across a lot of subs. You don't see these around the seating area because they're built into the walls, but they're there. The number of subs then has no relation to the .1 of 5.1 or 7.1
In consumer gear, we don't just send Low Frequency Effects sound (LFE) to the sub. The receiver also mixes in any bass that the main channel speakers can't handle. At this point this bass info has direction - centre, left, right, surround left, surround right and so on. Where an AV receiver has a single sub output, or dual mono outputs, then the directionality is lost in creating a mono signal for the sub. The directional cues rely on the sound from the main speakers, and in a small space such as a living room, this works.
Bigger AV receivers have the ability to run dual subs, which a software change can make to be single mono, dual mono, stereo left right, or a front/back split. Some part of the directional cues can be kept. It depends what works best in the space and for the owner's preference.
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