Transferring vinyl to PC, guitar very low in mix

[uknick]

When I record a LP via a USB phono pre amp to my windows 11 computer the guitar can be very low in the mix. For example, recording a Deep Purple album ends up with Blackmore’s guitar buried in the background. This only happens when playing back to a PC via USB. Playing through my hi-fi it sounds fine.

I’ve tried 2 phono amps and get the same result.

I’m going to dig out my old Windows 7 PC to see if that had the same problem, but before I do that has anybody here experienced this?

[RustyMX5]

I'm considering doing something similar myself. What kit / software are you using?

[miniman]

In the classic PH way, rather than answer the actual question, I'll instead ask why you'd want to record things from LP onto PC when you can listen via Spotify / Tidal et al?

[dundarach]

I still play vinyl (and tapes and reel to reel actually).

However as above, why are you messing around, just either grab from spotify, or even youtube, if you use something like JDownloader it'll grab MP3's directly from youtube and you'll find most albums full on there.

Otherwise, what soundcard are you using on the PC, line in for microphone's will be crab.

Laptop or desktop?

[OutInTheShed]

I had no problems recording from Hifi amp's 'pre out' to the PC's 'Mic in' other than getting the levels right.
I think the SW was audigy.

Sounds like the OP has either lost the RIAA equalistaion or something?

[RustyMX5]

miniman said:

In the classic PH way, rather than answer the actual question, I'll instead ask why you'd want to record things from LP onto PC when you can listen via Spotify / Tidal et al?

I have records which aren't on Spotify and when I rip, I tend to rip in FLAC because I want to hear all the little bumps in the record. Sorry

[996owner]

dundarach said:

I still play vinyl (and tapes and reel to reel actually).

However as above, why are you messing around, just either grab from spotify, or even youtube, if you use something like JDownloader it'll grab MP3's directly from youtube and you'll find most albums full on there.

Otherwise, what soundcard are you using on the PC, line in for microphone's will be crab.

Laptop or desktop?

Another fellow tape user. The cost of open reel tape is eyewatering! I'm in the process of borrowing lp's and copying to tape to make my own albums up.

Back on topic:

I'm wondering if the OP has plugged his record deck into the PC i/p a phono preamp is what's missing if this is the case.

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers...

[uknick]

To answer the questions -

Why pay for Spotify etc. when I have the hardware and albums?

Record is plugged into phono pre amp and the pre amp is connected to pc via USB

I’m using audacity. But, I have tried other apps and get the same problem

I have now tried my windows 7 pc and get the same problem via USB. But, when connected to microphone input it works fine. My windows 11 pc doesn’t have dedicated microphone input.

I’ve also noticed it is one of channel of the USB driver at fault. If I swap the inputs the guitar is fine, but the organ is too soft.

[996owner]

uknick said:

To answer the questions -

Why pay for Spotify etc. when I have the hardware and albums?

Record is plugged into phono pre amp and the pre amp is connected to pc via USB

I’m using audacity. But, I have tried other apps and get the same problem

I have now tried my windows 7 pc and get the same problem via USB. But, when connected to microphone input it works fine. My windows 11 pc doesn’t have dedicated microphone input.

I’ve also noticed it is one of channel of the USB driver at fault. If I swap the inputs the guitar is fine, but the organ is too soft.

Sounds like a uSB soundcard issue. does the usb soundcard have any software to configure it?

on your win 7 machine right click on the speaker icon and go to recording control panel, check that there's no audio enhancements set on the input, such as mic boost surround sound.... win 7 is normally pretty decent for audio, win 10 on the other hand can be a pain.

Edited by 996owner on Tuesday 14th May 20:25

[uknick]

996owner said:

uknick said:

To answer the questions -

Why pay for Spotify etc. when I have the hardware and albums?

Record is plugged into phono pre amp and the pre amp is connected to pc via USB

I’m using audacity. But, I have tried other apps and get the same problem

I have now tried my windows 7 pc and get the same problem via USB. But, when connected to microphone input it works fine. My windows 11 pc doesn’t have dedicated microphone input.

I’ve also noticed it is one of channel of the USB driver at fault. If I swap the inputs the guitar is fine, but the organ is too soft.

Sounds like a uSB soundcard issue. does the usb soundcard have any software to configure it?

on your win 7 machine right click on the speaker icon and go to recording control panel, check that there's no audio enhancements set on the input, such as mic boost surround sound.... win 7 is normally pretty decent for audio, win 10 on the other hand can be a pain.

Edited by 996owner on Tuesday 14th May 20:25

Thanks. I’ll have a look tomorrow. I’m also going to change the USB lead; not quite sure how that can be the issue but you never know.

[TonyRPH]

If you're using the on board sound card for this, then it's likely that's where the problem is.

Whilst many PCs have a good on board DAC, very few have a good on board ADC - and to record analogue into a PC, yo need a really good ADC.

Something like a FocusRite 2i2 will do a good job.

For software, I've had very good results with HarddiskOgg - it will record to Flac, Mp3 or Ogg, despite the name.

Getting the levels right is also crucial.

Edited by TonyRPH on Tuesday 14th May 20:35

[nuyorican]

Recording a stereo record in mono by accident perhaps? Or the other way round, old record in mono, recording in stereo… if the guitars were panned hard, or left straight down the middle, might get lost in translation.

Total guess, just adding an extra idea

[uknick]

nuyorican said:

Recording a stereo record in mono by accident perhaps? Or the other way round, old record in mono, recording in stereo… if the guitars were panned hard, or left straight down the middle, might get lost in translation.

Total guess, just adding an extra idea

Definitely not that. Ironically, the 1st Deep Purple album I tried is recorded in mono and that sounds fine. It's when I did the 2nd Deep Purple one which is in stereo the issue arose.

[uknick]

TonyRPH said:

If you're using the on board sound card for this, then it's likely that's where the problem is.

Whilst many PCs have a good on board DAC, very few have a good on board ADC - and to record analogue into a PC, yo need a really good ADC.

Something like a FocusRite 2i2 will do a good job.

For software, I've had very good results with HarddiskOgg - it will record to Flac, Mp3 or Ogg, despite the name.

Getting the levels right is also crucial.

Edited by TonyRPH on Tuesday 14th May 20:35

My Windows 11 machine is a Dell Inspiron bought a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how good the sound card/chip is in the machine.

But, if the built in sound card/chip could be the problem, how come this issue is not all over the internet? Or, does this mean most people have no idea what the sound is supposed to be like?

I'll have a look at HardDiskOGG.

[TonyRPH]

uknick said:

My Windows 11 machine is a Dell Inspiron bought a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how good the sound card/chip is in the machine.

But, if the built in sound card/chip could be the problem, how come this issue is not all over the internet? Or, does this mean most people have no idea what the sound is supposed to be like?

I'll have a look at HardDiskOGG.

I just read your OP again, and it looks as though you are using a phono preamp with built in USB? In which case this won't be going near your on board sound for the recording process.

But it could just be a limitation of the sound quality of the phono preamp (if it's what I thin kit is) - what make & model is it? Can you post a link please?

[OutInTheShed]

uknick said:

My Windows 11 machine is a Dell Inspiron bought a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how good the sound card/chip is in the machine.

But, if the built in sound card/chip could be the problem, how come this issue is not all over the internet? Or, does this mean most people have no idea what the sound is supposed to be like?

I'll have a look at HardDiskOGG.

How many people actually record analogue sound using their PC?
I've used my PC's mic inputs as a soundcard oscilloscope.
It's quite an old PC with on-mobo sound, not a separate soundcard, just an Intel MoBo and its ADC's are entirely adequate for basic 16 bit stuff.

I wondered if you're doing some processing which has one of the stereo channels inverted.
Is your playback plain old 2 channel stereo?

[Dragster]

uknick said:

When I record a LP via a USB phono pre amp to my windows 11 computer the guitar can be very low in the mix. For example, recording a Deep Purple album ends up with Blackmore’s guitar buried in the background. This only happens when playing back to a PC via USB. Playing through my hi-fi it sounds fine.

I’ve tried 2 phono amps and get the same result.

I’m going to dig out my old Windows 7 PC to see if that had the same problem, but before I do that has anybody here experienced this?

Have you ever used Audacity software?...............iirc it was originally developed for the purpose of ripping vinyl.

Dead easy to use, it's free too. Some amazing features including the ability to remove scratches, pops and crackles from old vinyl. This can be done automatically or manually if you have the time and patience. Auto is a pretty blunt tool..........manual gives far better results.

Hundreds of online tutorials showing how to get the best from it.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDbNIieMYdA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8z_X0Iia0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts11mER9YH4

[TonyRPH]

Dragster said:

Have you ever used Audacity software?...............iirc it was originally developed for the purpose of ripping vinyl.

Dead easy to use, it's free too. Some amazing features including the ability to remove scratches, pops and crackles from old vinyl. This can be done automatically or manually if you have the time and patience. Auto is a pretty blunt tool..........manual gives far better results.

Hundreds of online tutorials showing how to get the best from it.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDbNIieMYdA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8z_X0Iia0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts11mER9YH4

OP is already using audacity.

[uknick]

Just to recap, I'm using Audacity to record, and have done for years when editing sound files, a Pro-Ject phono preamp with USB connection and decent record decks; a Pro-Ject PPM Genie and more recently my 1988 Bang and Olufsen.

I've just dug out some files I recorded a few years ago using my Windows 7 machine along with the same preamp and Pro-Ject deck and they have the same issue. I hadn't listened to them using headphones so hadn't noticed the issue. Therefore, it can't be a recent thing.

The fact it works OK through a microphone input indicates to me it's a USB driver issue. I've checked and have the latest Windows 11 drivers loaded.

Unfortunately, my Dell doesn't have a dedicated microphone, just for a socket for a combined headset with microphone input. Is there an adaptor to convert a standard 3.5mm stereo lead to work with this?

[ATG]

In the other copy of this thread I suggested trying to attach an A2D downstream of the OP's hifi's phono stage. I.e. either record from the output of his hifi's phono stage, or the output of his pre-amp, or a line-out from the back of his power amp, or a tape-out. Try using the PC's sound card to do this. That would eliminate the integrated phono-stage/A2D/USB device.

From my limited knowledge of these things, a phono stage is not just an amplifier. They need to include a frequency filter to reverse the filtering that's been applied during the production of the vinyl record ... RIAA equalisation. I wonder if the integrated USB device the OP is using has a crap RIAA filter?