Centre Speaker upgrade

[TorqueDirty]

I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my centre speaker for my AV system.

I'm currently using a Monitor Audio Silver LCR - which I guess I bought about 15 years ago. I have the old version that looks like this rather than to newer

The rest of my speaker system comprises of a pair of Kef Reference 203/2 fronts (seriously good IMO), a pair of Monitor Audio Gold Reference 10's used as rear left and right speakers and a BK XXLS400 sub (also excellent)

Amplification is via a Denon Avcx4700 AV amp with the front L/R driven by my Musical Fidelity A308 power amp.

The system sounds good but I tend to find that dialogue is not as crisp as it should be and I suspect that the centre speaker is the weak point.

So, any suggestions as to what to replace the Monitor Audio Silver LCR with? I'd prefer to buy used becuase I think that is the best way to get a good speaker for sensible money.

A Kef centre sounds like a good idea but I'm happy to consider anything that will substantially improve the system. I have looked at Kef, Dali, PMC, Monitor Audio and Klipsch (this last one only becuase it was mentioned as good in some reviews but I have never heard of them). NO listened to any of them, just ebay browsing.

Budget say £400 max, but £250 would be great if it would buy me something that is a substantial upgrade.

All suggestions / advice welcome.

[Miserablegit]

I purchased one of these last year- very pleased with it. Replaced a tannoy centre.

[karma mechanic]

The thing about centre speakers is that they are often hemmed-in by whatever the screen sits on, or otherwise compromised in position. If it is low down then tilting it upwards can be an improvement in the frequencies you need for clear dialogue.

There should be plenty of adjustment via the amp, both in equalisation and level, plus timing in relation to the other speakers.

Having said that, I'm using an SVS Prime centre and I like it a lot. It sits about 300mm off the floor below where the bottom bar of the PJ screen goes, with nothing else around it or behind it.

[bigandclever]

(I'm not an audiophile by any stretch) I went for the Dali Oberon Vokal. Was £329 from Richer Sounds, I note they're now £399.

[TorqueDirty]

karma mechanic said:

The thing about centre speakers is that they are often hemmed-in by whatever the screen sits on, or otherwise compromised in position. If it is low down then tilting it upwards can be an improvement in the frequencies you need for clear dialogue.

There should be plenty of adjustment via the amp, both in equalisation and level, plus timing in relation to the other speakers.

Having said that, I'm using an SVS Prime centre and I like it a lot. It sits about 300mm off the floor below where the bottom bar of the PJ screen goes, with nothing else around it or behind it.

The positioning for my existing centre is fine I think. The screen is wall mounted and the centre speaker sits on top of a dedicated component rack under the TV at listening height, and a sensible way from the wall.

To be honest I think it is just that my other speakers are way better than the centre (the Kefs 203/2s were about 7k new), where as the Monitor Audio Silver centre was probably about £300 if I recall correctly.

[TorqueDirty]

Miserablegit said:

I purchased one of these last year- very pleased with it. Replaced a tannoy centre.

I saw that earlier today.

Seems like a very good deal if the £699 is actually the real retail price. Not blown away with the looks to be honest but you can forgive that with the discount they are offering.

A second hand Kef R2c also looks like it might be a good bet but as I say, I'm open to other suggestions.

If I am going to replace the current speaker (which is still in as new condition) then I'd really like it to be quite a significant upgrade.

Edited by TorqueDirty on Monday 5th February 14:40

[stevoknevo]

I'd look to track down a KEF centre speaker that was a match for your L&R when they were released - there's a reference 200c, 202c, and 204c, the latter of which is exceptionally large so may not be practical for placement, and they tend to go for a lot more than your budget. There's a Reference 200c on Ebay, again pretty large, for £215 - however it's collection only from Edinburgh and his feedback isn't great https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154874663809?mkcid=16&a...

But I've always found that the centre speaker from the range it's intended to be paired with gives best results - I've got pair of PMC GB1 with a DB1c and it's absolutely seemless across the front stage compared to the previous Tannoy centre I used briefly whilst tracking down the DB1c.

If you do a search for matching centre for your KEFs you'll find a few posts, mostly on AVForums, with suggestions.

Edit - just realised you're in Scotland so the 'collection only from Edinburgh' might not be as much of a ballache depending on where you are (I'm on the west coast so 7 hour round trip, wouldn't put me off if it was something I really wanted) and on looking at his poor feedback it seems to be one for pulling out of a deal which makes me wonder if the buyer not reading the advert correctly could've been the issue...then spat the dummy...

Edited by stevoknevo on Monday 5th February 16:31

[TorqueDirty]

stevoknevo said:

I'd look to track down a KEF centre speaker that was a match for your L&R when they were released - there's a reference 200c, 202c, and 204c, the latter of which is exceptionally large so may not be practical for placement, and they tend to go for a lot more than your budget. There's a Reference 200c on Ebay, again pretty large, for £215 - however it's collection only from Edinburgh and his feedback isn't great https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154874663809?mkcid=16&a...

But I've always found that the centre speaker from the range it's intended to be paired with gives best results - I've got pair of PMC GB1 with a DB1c and it's absolutely seemless across the front stage compared to the previous Tannoy centre I used briefly whilst tracking down the DB1c.

If you do a search for matching centre for your KEFs you'll find a few posts, mostly on AVForums, with suggestions.

Edit - just realised you're in Scotland so the 'collection only from Edinburgh' might not be as much of a ballache depending on where you are (I'm on the west coast so 7 hour round trip, wouldn't put me off if it was something I really wanted) and on looking at his poor feedback it seems to be one for pulling out of a deal which makes me wonder if the buyer not reading the advert correctly could've been the issue...then spat the dummy...

Edited by stevoknevo on Monday 5th February 16:31

Thanks for the sensible suggestions. I did actually explore the 200c option but it seems that they suffer with age a bit. I saw a post where one guy have bought 3 just to get enough working components to get a good one!

After following your advice I did search for centres that would match my 203/2s and discovered the 204/2 c. Bloody hell!

Must resist temptation!

[normalbloke]

Go to Richer Sounds( if you can). Have a listen to your shortlist. Take your existing speaker along and compare.

[Lucid_AV]

normalbloke said:

Go to Richer Sounds( if you can). Have a listen to your shortlist. Take your existing speaker along and compare.

With respect to Richers, they top out at the Q series, the Q650C. AFAICT, they don't range the Reference series. Given the £7,000/pr when-new 203/2 front stereo speakers, it's asking a lot for the Q650C to compare with those.

I think if I were in the OPs shoes then what I'd want to do is listen to the options in-store before deciding what to take away for a home demo. The Reference 2 Meta centre is a whopping £4,750, but is really excellent (as you'd hope for nearly five grand) vs the R2 Meta centre (£1,199) to find out if there's £3,500 worth of difference. Then, if needed, compare the R2 Meta to the Q650C. This would settle all the "what ifs".

Taking the store's demo centre speaker home for a few days is far more practical than trying to transport the stereo speakers to a store where the listening environment is unfamiliar. Finishing off with a home demo puts the centre in the system where it would finally live. I think that's a more sensible way about things.

KEF's Reference-series dealers in Scotland are both in Edinburgh. They're James Morrow (Home Street, EH3 9JR) and Hi-Fi Corner (Joppa Road, EH15 2EU).

[TorqueDirty]

Lucid_AV said:

With respect to Richers, they top out at the Q series, the Q650C. AFAICT, they don't range the Reference series. Given the £7,000/pr when-new 203/2 front stereo speakers, it's asking a lot for the Q650C to compare with those.

I think if I were in the OPs shoes then what I'd want to do is listen to the options in-store before deciding what to take away for a home demo. The Reference 2 Meta centre is a whopping £4,750, but is really excellent (as you'd hope for nearly five grand) vs the R2 Meta centre (£1,199) to find out if there's £3,500 worth of difference. Then, if needed, compare the R2 Meta to the Q650C. This would settle all the "what ifs".

Taking the store's demo centre speaker home for a few days is far more practical than trying to transport the stereo speakers to a store where the listening environment is unfamiliar. Finishing off with a home demo puts the centre in the system where it would finally live. I think that's a more sensible way about things.

KEF's Reference-series dealers in Scotland are both in Edinburgh. They're James Morrow (Home Street, EH3 9JR) and Hi-Fi Corner (Joppa Road, EH15 2EU).

Thanks Lucid. Good info as always

Hoping to find something "good" but affordable for this particular upgrade so it will need to be 2nd hand I think.

A trip to the Kef dealer is definitely a good idea - but also fraught with danger due to the likelihood of me being so impressed that I decide to buy something brand new, very shiny - and very expensive!

I'll see what I can dig up on the S/H market for the next few weeks and if I draw a blank then I might just visit the Kef store.

[TorqueDirty]

Well I bid and won an eBay auction for a Kef R2c centre speaker that is a couple of years old.

Looking forward to seeing what difference it makes to my set up.

Thanks for all the suggestions and info. Will report back in due course.