Home cinema sounds replace existing hifi?

Home cinema sounds replace existing hifi?

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dvshannow

Original Poster:

1,601 posts

143 months

Saturday 15th July 2023
quotequote all
We are putting a new room in the house to use as a home cinema / additional lounge - it won’t be a fully dedicated home cinema more a second lounge which we will move the TV to and put some surround sound in

Tv is decent size 85” so will not add a projector though might like to keep option open in future

For sound need some advice. Have a decent enough 2.1 system , B&W 804ds, a db1 sub, NAP 300 DR amp.

Not sure above would integrate into a home cinema setup and don’t want to route sound into above we did that for a bit before and while it sounds great don’t like the constant messing around with the NAIM stuff when kids are watching a movie.

Would people suggest adding a separate setup for the home cinema and keeping the hifi completely separate in a difference room or are there any neat ways to integrate the hifi into a home cinema setup adding center and surrounds without compromising much the 2.1 performance?

My thoughts are cleaner to keep separate though ideally wanted to have the home cinema room also as the listening room

OMITN

2,405 posts

99 months

Saturday 15th July 2023
quotequote all
Haven’t got an answer, sorry, but this is exactly what we’re going to be doing. We’re repurposing a room into a TV/music room.

I don’t want 5(or more).1 - I’m happy with 3.1. But want to get a decent hifi experience.

The only constant - and I know it’s the wrong way to do it - are the speakers: my beloved Quad floorstanders (I have a choice of 21L or 22L), the matching centre and the matching subwoofer.

Apart from the LP12, everything else is up for grabs. Like you, keeping it simple is key, but equally I’m keen to limit the compromise that mixing music and movies can produce.

My thinking - but which is probably very out of date - is to use the cheap Yamaha surround amp I already have and pair it with a new stereo integrated with a “HT bypass” input.

I want to retain the sub with music as well as movies, so suspect I won’t be able to access the LF output of the surround amp. Instead the front speakers will use the sub’s crossover and present as “full range/large” to the surround amp. The surround amp will basically only power the centre.

Music inputs (turntable/CD/streaming) can go into the integrated amp. TV/BluRay can go into the surround amp.

That’s the plan. Whether I can achieve that or if there is a better way, who knows..?!!!!!

tdm34

7,400 posts

217 months

Saturday 15th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
We are putting a new room in the house to use as a home cinema / additional lounge - it won’t be a fully dedicated home cinema more a second lounge which we will move the TV to and put some surround sound in

Tv is decent size 85” so will not add a projector though might like to keep option open in future

For sound need some advice. Have a decent enough 2.1 system , B&W 804ds, a db1 sub, NAP 300 DR amp.

Not sure above would integrate into a home cinema setup and don’t want to route sound into above we did that for a bit before and while it sounds great don’t like the constant messing around with the NAIM stuff when kids are watching a movie.

Would people suggest adding a separate setup for the home cinema and keeping the hifi completely separate in a difference room or are there any neat ways to integrate the hifi into a home cinema setup adding center and surrounds without compromising much the 2.1 performance?

My thoughts are cleaner to keep separate though ideally wanted to have the home cinema room also as the listening room
Given the size of the screen, i'd look at this, still compact enough, all satellite units (Surrounds/Subs) are wireless, have the main HiFi in another area, not cheap mind.....

https://www.techradar.com/news/nakamichis-sonos-st...

Brilliantly OTT promo video from Nakamichi.......

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=nakamichi+dra...

Great set-up Video.....

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&q=nakamich...


Edited by tdm34 on Saturday 15th July 13:16


Edited by tdm34 on Saturday 15th July 13:17

JimbobVFR

2,727 posts

151 months

Saturday 15th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
For sound need some advice. Have a decent enough 2.1 system , B&W 804ds, a db1 sub, NAP 300 DR amp.

Not sure above would integrate into a home cinema setup
IIRC the 300 DR is a poweramp, do you also have a pre-amp for switching and volume control? Which one?

Some amplifiers and pre-amps have a direct or HT bypass input you can connect to the pre-output on an AV amp and use your poweramp and speakers as part of your AV system

In my experience it's important to have tone matching centre speaker, the surrounds are less critical but ideally a matching centre would be best.

TEKNOPUG

19,336 posts

212 months

Saturday 15th July 2023
quotequote all
As said, get an AVR with pre-outs. AVR can run the surround speakers and the sub and control the cut offs and processing. Power Amp runs the BWs and can be a pure 2.0 or 2.1 for music. Obviously all your sources will need to connect via the AVR.

dvshannow

Original Poster:

1,601 posts

143 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
The pre is a Supernait 2 with a qutest dac. Not easy to use a non-naim pre as the Naim gear connects with bespoke connections. Feeding the 300DR with an AVR think would be a bad plan, might as well get rid of it if was going to do that but could feed the SN2 pre with the AVR if it has a line-out for the front speakers and run the center and 2 rears from the AVR directly

Not sure where that would leave the sub - if I connect to the AVR would be fine for movies

Above would be a little annoying for use as I’d have a separate volume for the front stereo speakers compared with the rest of the system and prob have balance/timing issues for surround sound

I guess one option is I run an old style switch box like in old day hifi shops with the front speakers wired to both the Naim and AVR and you switch between sources- that would leave hifi only used for music and leave the AVR to do all the surround sound stuff as designed

Just near to find a low noise cable switch if want to do that

Nomme de Plum

6,111 posts

23 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
It's quite straightforward to integrate the stereo set up into a home cinema system.

I used a Merdian 861V8 but there are a number of cinema processors on the Market. They are effectively a multi channel preamp with DSP.

Something like the Anthem AVM 90 comes in at about £6,800 you can link your power amp to this and add another multi channel amp for centre rears anything else you want like ATMOS. The Lyngdorf MP60 is ate premium end at over £17K.
Nad and Arcam do much more economic models.

If you want separate systems though it would be much more straightforward to use a AV receiver with integrated multi channel amp and a speaker package. Ultimate Hi Fi quality is normally not such an issue in multi channel mode.

OutInTheShed

9,379 posts

33 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
.....

Would people suggest adding a separate setup for the home cinema and keeping the hifi completely separate in a difference room or are there any neat ways to integrate the hifi into a home cinema setup adding center and surrounds without compromising much the 2.1 performance?

My thoughts are cleaner to keep separate though ideally wanted to have the home cinema room also as the listening room
There's only two of us, and the concept of only having one 'listening room' sounds completely potty to me!

It sounds like you're happy to invest a few coins in this, so, personally I'd go for a system intended to get good performance from the Home Cinema, but also look for it to be able to stream your audio reasonably well.

Meanwhile, keep the 'purist' hifi in another room.

dvshannow

Original Poster:

1,601 posts

143 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
dvshannow said:
.....

Would people suggest adding a separate setup for the home cinema and keeping the hifi completely separate in a difference room or are there any neat ways to integrate the hifi into a home cinema setup adding center and surrounds without compromising much the 2.1 performance?

My thoughts are cleaner to keep separate though ideally wanted to have the home cinema room also as the listening room
There's only two of us, and the concept of only having one 'listening room' sounds completely potty to me!

It sounds like you're happy to invest a few coins in this, so, personally I'd go for a system intended to get good performance from the Home Cinema, but also look for it to be able to stream your audio reasonably well.

Meanwhile, keep the 'purist' hifi in another room.
Yep think going to do this , already investing I think enough in the hifi trying to be sensible!

Will keep the existing hifi which I’m happy with completely separate and add an AVR plus 5.1 speaker system to the new room it’s the simplest solution and can still listen to music which kids are watching a movie


Nomme de Plum

6,111 posts

23 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
Yep think going to do this , already investing I think enough in the hifi trying to be sensible!

Will keep the existing hifi which I’m happy with completely separate and add an AVR plus 5.1 speaker system to the new room it’s the simplest solution and can still listen to music which kids are watching a movie
I trust your rooms have some good sound separation.

Dirac Live is a highly regarded DSP Room correction system and a few AV receivers have it on board.

legzr1

3,868 posts

146 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
Split them.

I tried for years to reach a happy middle ground using AV pre-outs to a stereo set up and never found it convincing.
I’m talking £3K AV processors from Marantz, DENON and Krell that were heralded for their 2 channel performance.

Your SN2 is an integrated amp - using it as a pre is a waste of the power amp part of it.
I’d be looking at moving it on a replacing with a dedicated pre such as a Naim 252.

Griffith4ever

4,784 posts

42 months

Sunday 16th July 2023
quotequote all
I'd split them, personally.

I'm lucky - I bought my hifi with an equal lean to home cinema (Mirage OM9s with all Mirage surrounds) - the music is epic from the mains, and then surround is mind blowing (omnipolar really makes for a massive sound stage)

dvshannow

Original Poster:

1,601 posts

143 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
Split them.

I tried for years to reach a happy middle ground using AV pre-outs to a stereo set up and never found it convincing.
I’m talking £3K AV processors from Marantz, DENON and Krell that were heralded for their 2 channel performance.

Your SN2 is an integrated amp - using it as a pre is a waste of the power amp part of it.
I’d be looking at moving it on a replacing with a dedicated pre such as a Naim 252.
Looked into this a lot at the time , the SN2 works very well as a pre and spoke with Naim who said that the SN2 pre stage is on par with its lower end dedicated ores that cost a similar amount to the SN2 (surprisingly) - so yes it’s a waste in that it doesn’t use a perfectly good power amp section but it avoided an unnecessary addition.

This was what I was told by Naim directly at them
“ Yes you could use a SN2 as a stepping stone pre amp for NAP300, you would need a Y lead to carry signal from SN2 to the 300. SN2 is similar to NAC282”

I reached a point I was happy with my regular hifi and stopped upgrading it a while back, the only addition being switching the Dacv1 for a chord qutest 2 years ago after deciding I prefer the Chord DAC sound and opted for that instead of a higher end Naim streamer

The biggest problem with it is I don’t get to listen to it enough! Hoping having it in its own room will help

Deranged Rover

3,780 posts

81 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
One of the SN2s inputs should be configurable as a "straight-through" AV input, so you can take the front channels out of an AV receiver and into this straight through input, then through the SN2 and DR300 into your main speakers.

That way you get the front channels of AV surround through the Naim/B&Ws but the AV receiver will control the volume for all channels as normal. You can then still use the other SN2 inputs for dedicated 2-channel stuff.

JimbobVFR

2,727 posts

151 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
The pre is a Supernait 2 with a qutest dac. Not easy to use a non-naim pre as the Naim gear connects with bespoke connections. Feeding the 300DR with an AVR think would be a bad plan, might as well get rid of it if was going to do that but could feed the SN2 pre with the AVR if it has a line-out for the front speakers and run the center and 2 rears from the AVR directly

Not sure where that would leave the sub - if I connect to the AVR would be fine for movies

Above would be a little annoying for use as I’d have a separate volume for the front stereo speakers compared with the rest of the system and prob have balance/timing issues for surround sound

I guess one option is I run an old style switch box like in old day hifi shops with the front speakers wired to both the Naim and AVR and you switch between sources- that would leave hifi only used for music and leave the AVR to do all the surround sound stuff as designed

Just near to find a low noise cable switch if want to do that
Your SN2 DOES have a HT bypass function so it wouldn't be annoying to use, no issues with volume controls

Copied from the manual


When I had a similar setup I was using a sub with both high-level speaker inputs and an RCA input that use both at the same time which made the sub connection very easy.

mgv8

1,646 posts

278 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
I have a NAD AV amp that does a good job at 2 channle for music. I think it can be done but you will just need to spend more to get the same peformence.

Panamax

5,098 posts

41 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
This may be a minority view but IMO if you've got a really good stereo,
  • You don't need a sub, and
  • You don't need surround.
Get the TV sensibly positioned between good stereo speakers and there's no hole in the middle. Stereo has been painting a full and wide soundstage for decades.

Sure, you won't get fighter jets flying in from the back of the room.

But if you want both decent stereo and a decent surround system there's little choice other then to buy two separate systems - which can get expensive.

dvshannow

Original Poster:

1,601 posts

143 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
JimbobVFR said:
dvshannow said:
The pre is a Supernait 2 with a qutest dac. Not easy to use a non-naim pre as the Naim gear connects with bespoke connections. Feeding the 300DR with an AVR think would be a bad plan, might as well get rid of it if was going to do that but could feed the SN2 pre with the AVR if it has a line-out for the front speakers and run the center and 2 rears from the AVR directly

Not sure where that would leave the sub - if I connect to the AVR would be fine for movies

Above would be a little annoying for use as I’d have a separate volume for the front stereo speakers compared with the rest of the system and prob have balance/timing issues for surround sound

I guess one option is I run an old style switch box like in old day hifi shops with the front speakers wired to both the Naim and AVR and you switch between sources- that would leave hifi only used for music and leave the AVR to do all the surround sound stuff as designed

Just near to find a low noise cable switch if want to do that
Your SN2 DOES have a HT bypass function so it wouldn't be annoying to use, no issues with volume controls

Copied from the manual


When I had a similar setup I was using a sub with both high-level speaker inputs and an RCA input that use both at the same time which made the sub connection very easy.
Good info thanks - if I do this it is effectively using the AVR as a pre- stage and the SN as a power section only?
Given I have also setup the SN2 as a pre this might work but be a little convoluted and add a step in for listening to music. Were you using the SN2s power section?

The only thing to consider here is the DB1 as I v much like it as part of the 2.1 setup it doesn’t cover many frequencies with the 804Ds but adds a great sense of scale and bottom end and don’t want to lose that .

Which means I’d have to get a separate sub for the HT playback running off the AVR sub out , this sounds ok

legzr1

3,868 posts

146 months

Monday 17th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
Good info thanks - if I do this it is effectively using the AVR as a pre- stage and the SN as a power section only?
Given I have also setup the SN2 as a pre this might work but be a little convoluted and add a step in for listening to music. Were you using the SN2s power section?
No.

Theatre pass-through / AV input effectively allows your SN2 to pass the input signal straight to your 300 power amp without ‘touching it or attenuating the level- unity gain is the phrase commonly used.

Your AV amp, via pre-out left&right front channels of a surround format, will set levels / timings.

This is what I tried for several years using decent AV processors and separate power amps for each channel as mentioned earlier but, whilst the stereo hi-if sound was naturally unaffected, I was never happy with the AV side of things.

I have up, concentrated on my first love (stereo) and got a decent sound bar for occasional AV duties.
I have the bigger 800Ds so sub wasn’t necessary for stereo use. I used the .1 output from the AV amp and only used the sub for movies etc.

The sub calibration from a recent AV amp gets far, far greater results than trying to dial in a sub ‘by ear’ as you’ve probably done with your DB1.

If you go down the route of integrating 2-channel and surround, Rel and BKelectric offer subs with twin inputs switchable for stereo and av input - 2 separate calibrations such as subtle fill-in for stereo then balls out depth and slam for movies.

Good luck with it.

JimbobVFR

2,727 posts

151 months

Tuesday 18th July 2023
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
Good info thanks - if I do this it is effectively using the AVR as a pre- stage and the SN as a power section only?
Given I have also setup the SN2 as a pre this might work but be a little convoluted and add a step in for listening to music. Were you using the SN2s power section?

The only thing to consider here is the DB1 as I v much like it as part of the 2.1 setup it doesn’t cover many frequencies with the 804Ds but adds a great sense of scale and bottom end and don’t want to lose that .

Which means I’d have to get a separate sub for the HT playback running off the AVR sub out , this sounds ok
Actually your DB1 sub is ideal for both diuties here. Have a read of this review and they describe its use in a combined HT and Stereo system. You use the presets to switch between inputs and configurations, you can even connect a trigger wire to automatically switch presets.

https://hometheaterreview.com/bowers-wilkins-db-1-...