Any advice on " new " separates?
Discussion
Morning , sorting out house after last of children left home and feels like I want to start with a new system.Been years since I had a Technics all in one so now after a separate Amp , CD Player and bookshelf /small speakers.Looked at Richer Sounds and seems spending £1,000 gets you a Cambridge AX range ( 25 or 35 Amp ) but then what speakers (?) or spend a bit more and Marantz PM 6007 range and again speakers ?
I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
I recently bought a Cambridge CXA61 and CXC CD player (didn't need the extra bits that the CXA81 has). They were "open box" items from EBAY but they actually came from Cambridge Audio themselves and as far as I could tell the boxes had never in fact been opened.
Very pleased with both items and a good saving over buying them from a retailer, was about to purchase from RS then I saw the EBAY items.
I already had some very nice Monitor Audio floor standers and had my Rega Planar 3 refurbished by a company in Aylesbury (new motor, belt and cartridge).
Very pleased with both items and a good saving over buying them from a retailer, was about to purchase from RS then I saw the EBAY items.
I already had some very nice Monitor Audio floor standers and had my Rega Planar 3 refurbished by a company in Aylesbury (new motor, belt and cartridge).
alscar said:
Morning , sorting out house after last of children left home and feels like I want to start with a new system.Been years since I had a Technics all in one so now after a separate Amp , CD Player and bookshelf /small speakers.Looked at Richer Sounds and seems spending £1,000 gets you a Cambridge AX range ( 25 or 35 Amp ) but then what speakers (?) or spend a bit more and Marantz PM 6007 range and again speakers ?
I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
Do you want to buy stereo gear or buy Hi-Fi equipment. These ate two different things.I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
With stereo gear - you have a bit of a read of a few opinions, get a bit confused with all the conflicting advice, narrow down your choices, search around for deals, throw your list out of the window when some bargain pops up, then assemble a bunch of boxes, often without even listening to the stuff beforehand, and wonder what all this Hi-Fi malarkey is about because "this gear sounds just fine".
Buying Hi-Fi equipment should be more like visiting a tailor for a suit of clothes. It doesn't matter whether you go "off the peg with a few alterations" or full bespoke suit, the difference is that you walk out with something that fits you rather than some statistic in a bell curve.
Any purchase of Hi-Fi equipment should start with you finding a good dealer. In times past we used to laugh at RicherSounds with their pile-it-high-sell-it-cheap approach to electronics. They bought up end-of-line gear and stuff from less popular brands and sold it at big discounts. No demos and not much in the way of advice.
Times changed and Richers changed along with it. They're now a bit more focused on the Hi-Fi purchaser as well as the bloke after some stereo gear. The "as well as" is the bit you need to watch out for. The company has gained agencies for proper Hi-Fi brands such as Focal, B&W, KEF, Roksan, Audiolab, Rotel etc that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. However, not all of the staff have the correct approach to selling Hi-Fi as opposed to selling stereo gear.
Your first job then is finding a good dealer store near you, and then the right person inside who is interested in helping you get the best Hi-Fi system to suit you rather than just tucking you up with a bunch of boxes that earns them a nice commission.
When you walk into any dealer, take a look at the demo room(s). First, do they have a dedicated demo room? (If not, walk.) Is it crammed full of gear like an extension of the general shop area (If so, walk.) You want a space that resembles a living room. There shouldn't be any more than a couple of pairs of speakers in there. A single pair would be perfect, but lets be realistic here if you're just walking in off the street rather than having booked a demo. The room should look like it's set up to do an A-B demo and not an A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H...... comparison.
Okay, that's the store, but what bout the people?
Any conversation should start with them (a) asking a lot of questions - the room size, how it's furnished (sparse or cozy), other gear in the room such that the equipment might need to fit around, your expectations, who else might use the gear, is remote control for the amp important, colour finishes on speakers etc - and (b), them really listening to your answers. Buying gear shouldn't take all day, but if they're rushing to point you at some equipment then that's the wrong approach for a Hi-Fi sales person. Too high pressure. You want someone someone to suggest a couple of paths based on your earlier answers then discuss those with you to see if they're on the right track. It should be consultative and collaborative rather than fast food service.
The next stage is the demo. This should involve you going back for an appointment of between 30 minutes and an hour. You're buying a system, so there's a lot to audition, but any more than an hour is a waste because your head will be too full. I'd be tempted to split it into two sessions; a shorter one for the electronics, and then a longer session for speakers and to check that the electronics are still a good fit. Don't worry that walking out of the store without making a purchase somehow means you've failed. You haven't. It's just a step in the process.
It's popular to say that all amps sound the same. I'd challenge that. Have a listen to an ARCAM and then a Rega amp. The ARCAM is a big cozy duvet where as the Rega is the mad girlfriend who wants to strip naked, grab your hand and run through a meadow on a dare. Both are great amps, but they have different characters. The auditions help you find out which sorts of gear suit how you want to listen. With CD players the difference isn't as easy to make out, but you're listening to tempo and communication.
Speakers are simpler in that the differences will be quite pronounced. Bear in mind too that the room and speaker positioning are going to be major factors in how they work for you at home. Choosing some floorstanders that sound great in the large demo room, but when you get them home and find they end up stuffed in the room corners.... nuh-uh. The flipside would be some standmounters which work well in a smaller dem room but get lost at yours because the room is much bigger.
Check out other dealers in your location. Go to manufacturer sits for B&W, Focal, Roksan, Rega, ARCAM and look at their dealer finder lists. Don't bother doing that with Cambridge Audio. It's only sold via Richers and online. It's good gear, but it's effectively an in-house brand.
If you're sniffing around Richer Sounds have a look at the Audiolab 6000 gear. Great value for proper, modern kit.
Push the budget a bit and they have Roksan gear. Real hi-fi and you'll be able to haggle the price.
And there's nothing at all wrong with Marantz entry kit.
All of the above will deliver a good bang for your buck.
In the world of speakers Focal are always worth a look. Richer Sounds tend to push Dali so do a side-by-side comparison.
Push the budget a bit and they have Roksan gear. Real hi-fi and you'll be able to haggle the price.
And there's nothing at all wrong with Marantz entry kit.
All of the above will deliver a good bang for your buck.
In the world of speakers Focal are always worth a look. Richer Sounds tend to push Dali so do a side-by-side comparison.
alscar said:
Morning , sorting out house after last of children left home and feels like I want to start with a new system.Been years since I had a Technics all in one so now after a separate Amp , CD Player and bookshelf /small speakers.Looked at Richer Sounds and seems spending £1,000 gets you a Cambridge AX range ( 25 or 35 Amp ) but then what speakers (?) or spend a bit more and Marantz PM 6007 range and again speakers ?
I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
Have a look what's on offer in terms of active speakers, which can offer excellent performance without all the clutter.I'd like new and only want to do once so any advice much appreciated.
Choose the right ones and you'll get all sorts of convenient wireless interfaces too. KEF do some that may be worth looking at.
There are some bargain amps around, that really are very good. You can still get Denon pma60 unopened for about £350 and about £650 with its matching cd player. But also lots of digital inputs including network. If you want to spend more on speakers, just use the cheapest cd/dvd player you can find with a digital output. The Dac function in the pma60 reders it a transport and is hence perfect.
As for passive speakers, listen yourself.
Speakers are the biggest influence on a system sound alongside the room. Only your opinion matters.
Thanks Panamex and 911 - all noted.I had already decided I wanted the same make for the Amp and CD player ( for aesthetics if nothing else ) so all suggestions so far looks like being able to accommodate that depending on my budget which I guess is now more than £1,000.
No doubt when I start the shop visit I will also get mentioned interconnects and more importantly speaker wire so happy for any thoughts on that - clearly I should be sensible and keep the cost of those to a sensible percentage <10% ?
No doubt when I start the shop visit I will also get mentioned interconnects and more importantly speaker wire so happy for any thoughts on that - clearly I should be sensible and keep the cost of those to a sensible percentage <10% ?
Spec sheet for that Marantz says it doesn't have Spotify connect or Bluetooth.
You can add these with a wiim mini for about £80 or look for an amp with these already available. (marantz do have one with these available).
Cost of cables depends on how long they need to be, try a blind test with an expensive one and a cheap one at the store and see if you can notice the difference.
I'd skip the CDs and cd player and just use lossless files unless you really want to collect physical discs.
I've got a Dali Spector with my old AV receiver and a Wii mini setup in one small office room and think they sound amazing and total cost is a fraction of your budget, I don't think my main setup sounds multiple times better although it cost multiple times what this did. Room has a big effect though and my next "upgrades" is Al going to be on the room where possible.
You can add these with a wiim mini for about £80 or look for an amp with these already available. (marantz do have one with these available).
Cost of cables depends on how long they need to be, try a blind test with an expensive one and a cheap one at the store and see if you can notice the difference.
I'd skip the CDs and cd player and just use lossless files unless you really want to collect physical discs.
I've got a Dali Spector with my old AV receiver and a Wii mini setup in one small office room and think they sound amazing and total cost is a fraction of your budget, I don't think my main setup sounds multiple times better although it cost multiple times what this did. Room has a big effect though and my next "upgrades" is Al going to be on the room where possible.
Byronwww said:
Spec sheet for that Marantz says it doesn't have Spotify connect or Bluetooth.
You can add these with a wiim mini for about £80 or look for an amp with these already available. (marantz do have one with these available).
Cost of cables depends on how long they need to be, try a blind test with an expensive one and a cheap one at the store and see if you can notice the difference.
I'd skip the CDs and cd player and just use lossless files unless you really want to collect physical discs.
I've got a Dali Spector with my old AV receiver and a Wii mini setup in one small office room and think they sound amazing and total cost is a fraction of your budget, I don't think my main setup sounds multiple times better although it cost multiple times what this did. Room has a big effect though and my next "upgrades" is Al going to be on the room where possible.
Blind test on the cables sounds a good idea -thanks.You can add these with a wiim mini for about £80 or look for an amp with these already available. (marantz do have one with these available).
Cost of cables depends on how long they need to be, try a blind test with an expensive one and a cheap one at the store and see if you can notice the difference.
I'd skip the CDs and cd player and just use lossless files unless you really want to collect physical discs.
I've got a Dali Spector with my old AV receiver and a Wii mini setup in one small office room and think they sound amazing and total cost is a fraction of your budget, I don't think my main setup sounds multiple times better although it cost multiple times what this did. Room has a big effect though and my next "upgrades" is Al going to be on the room where possible.
Unfortunately too late to worry about collecting CD's -already have !
Also I'd avoid stuff like the Kef meta speakers where everything is built in, for similar money you can get a separates system which can be upgraded over time and bits replaced if they break or become outdated. All in one system not so much and I've heard Kef have already abandoned their v1 software with the new speakers being released.
911hope said:
Have a look what's on offer in terms of active speakers, which can offer excellent performance without all the clutter.
Choose the right ones and you'll get all sorts of convenient wireless interfaces too. KEF do some that may be worth looking at.
There are some bargain amps around, that really are very good. You can still get Denon pma60 unopened for about £350 and about £650 with its matching cd player. But also lots of digital inputs including network. If you want to spend more on speakers, just use the cheapest cd/dvd player you can find with a digital output. The Dac function in the pma60 reders it a transport and is hence perfect.
As for passive speakers, listen yourself.
Speakers are the biggest influence on a system sound alongside the room. Only your opinion matters.
Good post. I agree with all of that.Choose the right ones and you'll get all sorts of convenient wireless interfaces too. KEF do some that may be worth looking at.
There are some bargain amps around, that really are very good. You can still get Denon pma60 unopened for about £350 and about £650 with its matching cd player. But also lots of digital inputs including network. If you want to spend more on speakers, just use the cheapest cd/dvd player you can find with a digital output. The Dac function in the pma60 reders it a transport and is hence perfect.
As for passive speakers, listen yourself.
Speakers are the biggest influence on a system sound alongside the room. Only your opinion matters.
I've just had a search and found the Audiolab 8300CDQ https://www.audiolab.co.uk/8300cdq/ for £850. Great combination CD player / Pre amp with several analogue and digital inputs to use as the source for active speakers. With a little man maths and budget creep. Audiolab via balanced outputs into a pair of https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/adam-t7v £1200
Worth auditioning to set a benchmark.Not wanting to start a cable debate but as someone who's come to his senses after years of drinking the Kool Aid early on: don't spunk a fortune on them.
£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
Edited by Funk on Monday 27th February 17:04
I'd suggest having a clear idea of what you want in terms of multi-room functionality.
It's easy to appreciate an extra pair of speakers in the kitchen.
From there, mission-creep can set in and you're into diverse worlds of different approaches.
Especially if you sometimes want the same source to be playing in two rooms, but sometimes not.
Some of the wife's music I can't stand, other stuff irritates when I can only half-hear it.
Once I got some speakers I like in the lounge, the kitchen radio and the PC's audio in the office began to grate.
Also do you want something you drive with your phone, or do you often just want to press the 'on button' and the 'play button'?
Do you want 'serious' 'sit down and listen to a side of vinyl' listening or do you want fair quality music that plays with no effort?
I don't have a clear answer for what I want. And what 'we' want might be subtly different.
And it may vary from day to day.
I have a few reasonable analogue amps, so players/streamers/storage/distribution are important right now, even if I upgrade amps and speakers later.
It's easy to appreciate an extra pair of speakers in the kitchen.
From there, mission-creep can set in and you're into diverse worlds of different approaches.
Especially if you sometimes want the same source to be playing in two rooms, but sometimes not.
Some of the wife's music I can't stand, other stuff irritates when I can only half-hear it.
Once I got some speakers I like in the lounge, the kitchen radio and the PC's audio in the office began to grate.
Also do you want something you drive with your phone, or do you often just want to press the 'on button' and the 'play button'?
Do you want 'serious' 'sit down and listen to a side of vinyl' listening or do you want fair quality music that plays with no effort?
I don't have a clear answer for what I want. And what 'we' want might be subtly different.
And it may vary from day to day.
I have a few reasonable analogue amps, so players/streamers/storage/distribution are important right now, even if I upgrade amps and speakers later.
Funk said:
Not wanting to start a cable debate but as someone who's come to his senses after years of drinking the Kool Aid early on: don't spunk a fortune on them.
£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
Good Post.£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
I've been really impressed by my used bargain Nobsound Bluetooth amp (the one with the three eq knobs and inboard PSU) with my 90s/00s Mission 700s in my garage, as per my other thread.
I use 2.5mm2 twin and earth for the garage speaker cables
(I use a set of old Gale cables for my office system)
I won't upset you with talk of my disproportionately good per £ bitsa kitchen setup
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 27th February 21:22
Funk said:
Not wanting to start a cable debate but as someone who's come to his senses after years of drinking the Kool Aid early on: don't spunk a fortune on them.
£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
I pushed the boat out and bought some Van Damme studio cable to run in the walls, connecting a pair of Tannoy Turnberry with a lowish power Leak amplifier - I've used Tellurium Q, thick Chord 'cords' etc (all bought secondhand) and the Van Damme is not noticeably inferior. Thin bellwire or heavier gauge, they have something for everyone.£25-50 will get you a perfectly nice RCA stereo phono cable which should offer some electrical shielding/insulation but don't be drawn in with lurid claims by hugely expensive ones. Indeed, you might even just want to start with the included RCA cables which will be more than decent enough most likely.
Don't go nuts on speaker cable either - £20 on Amazon will get you 10m of QED Classic 79-strand OFC cable (5m per side sufficient for you?) and stick some banana plugs on to make life easy and reduce tarnishing a bit - a tenner should get you a pack of eight. Most of them will boast of 'gold this or that' but it's moot anyway as what you're plugging them into won't be gold-plated.
When it comes to digital cables they will either work or won't so even Amazon Basics or equivalent would be fine for optical signals etc.
Above all enjoy it - it's ridiculously easy to get a phenomenal sound for relatively little outlay nowadays and hopefully you'll be enjoying it for years to come.
Edited by Funk on Monday 27th February 17:04
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