Which Hi-Fi Speakers? - Passive standmount
Discussion
I started my 'Which System' thread on Thursday which provided much food for thought. Although I will upgrade my amplifier in time, I have decided to start with my speakers.
I want a pair of passive standmount speakers which will do all of the work of my main Hi-Fi system. They're not going to get any help from additional speakers or subs.
The system will be in a small living room. Probably around 12' x 15'. I'll do my best to position them well on stands or brackets, but it's a living room so they will need to have some tolerance for imperfect positioning, maybe a bit too close to the wall, a bit crowded etc. Carpeted floor although not much in the way of soft furnishings.
I am willing to spring for a more powerful amplifier so the limiting factor is probably the physical size of the speakers themselves, and budget. I've got an old pair here which I think are a nice kind of size;
21cm (w) x 21cm (d) x 40cm (h)
I could deal with a slightly deeper or wider box but I have ruled out, for example, the B&W 602 because they are 49cm in height.
So a pretty domestic 2-way unit housing a 5" or 6" woofer.
They'll probably get fed as much as 90w into 8 Ohms.
Subjective preferences-
Initially I am on a quest for volume.
I listen to imperfect vinyl records as well as digital sources. I do listen to the standards- of funk, disco, jazz, rock, prog etc, however a lot of my favourite music is not immaculately mixed and mastered. A lot of it's a bit old or a bit downscale. The speakers need to have presence and be fun to listen to but perhaps paper over the cracks a bit. Maybe boisterous and enthusiastic rather than accurate and revealing.
Whenever I listen to something which professes to be 'natural' and 'accurate' sounding, It tends to sound a bit thin to my ears.
I was interested to learn from the 'Sound Check' feature for my headphones that I apparently like a boosted mid profile, although as these will be the only speakers in the system they do need to give me the full range.
I am drawn to softer cone materials... paper pulp, fibre reinforced, soft dome tweeters etc.
A nice wood finish on the cabinets would be appreciated, not white, black or dark coloured wood but more oak or teak. Would be lovely if they were veneer rather than vinyl. Hopefully they'll look nice with grilles on or off.
New or used considered, budget is flexible although I won't spend thousands. It would be nice if they were not much more than £500.
I have a Sevenoaks near me so I can maybe demo some current models there.
What does PH recommend?
I want a pair of passive standmount speakers which will do all of the work of my main Hi-Fi system. They're not going to get any help from additional speakers or subs.
The system will be in a small living room. Probably around 12' x 15'. I'll do my best to position them well on stands or brackets, but it's a living room so they will need to have some tolerance for imperfect positioning, maybe a bit too close to the wall, a bit crowded etc. Carpeted floor although not much in the way of soft furnishings.
I am willing to spring for a more powerful amplifier so the limiting factor is probably the physical size of the speakers themselves, and budget. I've got an old pair here which I think are a nice kind of size;
21cm (w) x 21cm (d) x 40cm (h)
I could deal with a slightly deeper or wider box but I have ruled out, for example, the B&W 602 because they are 49cm in height.
So a pretty domestic 2-way unit housing a 5" or 6" woofer.
They'll probably get fed as much as 90w into 8 Ohms.
Subjective preferences-
Initially I am on a quest for volume.
I listen to imperfect vinyl records as well as digital sources. I do listen to the standards- of funk, disco, jazz, rock, prog etc, however a lot of my favourite music is not immaculately mixed and mastered. A lot of it's a bit old or a bit downscale. The speakers need to have presence and be fun to listen to but perhaps paper over the cracks a bit. Maybe boisterous and enthusiastic rather than accurate and revealing.
Whenever I listen to something which professes to be 'natural' and 'accurate' sounding, It tends to sound a bit thin to my ears.
I was interested to learn from the 'Sound Check' feature for my headphones that I apparently like a boosted mid profile, although as these will be the only speakers in the system they do need to give me the full range.
I am drawn to softer cone materials... paper pulp, fibre reinforced, soft dome tweeters etc.
A nice wood finish on the cabinets would be appreciated, not white, black or dark coloured wood but more oak or teak. Would be lovely if they were veneer rather than vinyl. Hopefully they'll look nice with grilles on or off.
New or used considered, budget is flexible although I won't spend thousands. It would be nice if they were not much more than £500.
I have a Sevenoaks near me so I can maybe demo some current models there.
What does PH recommend?
Over your budget new but I was considering Monitor Audio Silver 100s to replace some faulty B&W DM601s. Possibly dealer clearance or second hand might hit your price point? Maybe not quite what you're after but seem to get good reviews.
Also looking at Focal 906 but again only second hand would work.
Also looking at Focal 906 but again only second hand would work.
Edited by TheInternet on Sunday 15th January 17:27
TonyRPH said:
On reading your new OP something occurred to me...
Do you have the same issue with your sound regardless of source?
Just wondering, in case at high volumes you are getting feedback from your turntable?
There’s a little noise on the TT channel but no, the sound problem I’m experiencing is the same from other sources on other channels.Do you have the same issue with your sound regardless of source?
Just wondering, in case at high volumes you are getting feedback from your turntable?
TheInternet said:
Over your budget new but I was considering Monitor Audio Silver 100s to replace some faulty B&W DM601s. Possibly dealer clearance or second hand might hit your price point? Maybe not quite what you're after but seem to get good reviews.
Also looking at Focal 906 but again only second hand would work.
Both of these are interesting to me and I could stretch to the cost. Also looking at Focal 906 but again only second hand would work.
HustleRussell said:
TonyRPH- B&W 601 any good?
Typical of the time for B&W it's a big sounding speaker for it's size. Series 2 or 3 are preferable though.Just be mindful of poked in tweeters, as these seem to be quite problematic when young children are around (and not reined in).
Some think the tweeter can be a bit hard sounding, but I never found that to be the case.
The 603S3s I had could only be described as 'boom & tizz' but in a good way or bassheads!
I don't know anything about the Acoustic Energy speakers you mentioned in your last post - however I've had some AE speakers (AE100/105/109) over the years and they were decent speakers. Trouble is now, many of them (older ones) are suffering from rotting foam surrounds.
I am trapped in a Google / Youtube cycle lately and I know it's all a waste of time.
It's like when someone posts in General Gassing about which car to buy when they're up to their eyeballs in stats and reviews, my advice is always to go out and drive some cars.
Based on (a lot of) reviews and opinions, the AE300 could be a good speaker for me to try. However, they're £700. Which has me trawling eBay for B&W (plenty floating about but all old and many uncared for) and Dynaudio (which never come up).
I wonder how a brand new £700 pair of speakers match up to a good used pair.
It's like when someone posts in General Gassing about which car to buy when they're up to their eyeballs in stats and reviews, my advice is always to go out and drive some cars.
Based on (a lot of) reviews and opinions, the AE300 could be a good speaker for me to try. However, they're £700. Which has me trawling eBay for B&W (plenty floating about but all old and many uncared for) and Dynaudio (which never come up).
I wonder how a brand new £700 pair of speakers match up to a good used pair.
HustleRussell said:
<snip>
I wonder how a brand new £700 pair of speakers match up to a good used pair.
I can answer that to a certain extent.I wonder how a brand new £700 pair of speakers match up to a good used pair.
Over the past 20 years, I have actually only bought 3 pairs of brand new speakers. B&W 603S3s, KEF IQ7 and Wharfedale 9.1
In between I have owned:
AE100, 105 & 109 (at different times)
Linn Keilidh
Dynaudio 52 (my son now owns these)
Dynaudio 52SE (current speakers)
Paradigm Monitor 7 (original version - I still have these)
KEF IQ7 (I still have these)
Wharfdale 9.1
Wharfdale 8.2
Wharfedale 8.2 actives (still have these)
Eltax (various models)
JPW (various models)
+ others I've built myself - long since been dismantled / binned / whatever
Speakers I've demoed in my own system:
MS9xx series (914,916)
TDL Studio 10
Out of all of the above - the Dynaudios are probably the best (to be expected as they are the dearest) - the KEFs are good, the Paradigms are good.
The worst (to my ears!) were the MS9xx.
The Wharfedale's were excellent at the price - the 9.1s in particular sounded well above their price (still available new on Amazon too!)
The Linn Keilidhs were also very good, however I found the treble a little sharp.
The various Eltax speakers... Ok but no cigar.
KEF IQ7s - quite good, probably better as a surround speaker though (and that's what they've mostly been used For)
The AE's... ironically the middle of the range (the 105s) were the best. The 100s (small) were a little light in bass, and the 109s were overblown with bass.
The JPWs - I still have a pair of Monitor Golds, previously owned Mini Monitors and ML501 (I think). The Golds are amazing with a good sub.
I keep the Wharfedale actives or the occasional preamp testing (quicker than wiring up power amps etc.).
In summary:
In my opinion, a good 'old' speaker can sound as good as an equivalent new speaker (mostly - depends on brand I think though).
But most of the mainstream speaker manufacturers have been 'getting it right' for years now - I don't think there's any new 'magic' in current designs.
Sorry for the long post - hope it's useful.
EDIT: Moved house recently and had to clear some stu out. Sold this little lot or £50...
The large black ones were a pair of custom built speakers - the rest were AE105, Eltax Liberty 3+, Wharfedale 8.2, JPW ML501, Eltax Liberty 5+ (very modified). The new owner was a happy bunny.
Edited by TonyRPH on Wednesday 18th January 20:28
I bet they were a happy bunny with that lot for £50!
Because I am probably moving this year, the right thing to do is to wait until I see what kind of living room I end up with. That said I am impatient. Also I won't end up with a space where B&W 602 won't look huge so I am in the realm of small standmount speakers. Probably the smaller the better really as it's a living room not a listening room.
I am a bit awkward around the demo'ing thing. I am not sure I can buy something on eBay and then turn up with my amp and demo them. I feel like I'd be able to do that with a new purchase but not so much with a pair of used speakers at a fraction of the price.
I had considered buying a pair of Wharfedale 9.1 as an interim but hadn't noticed that they are only £120 on Amazon
I have been enjoying this guy's Youtube channel Pursuit Perfect System and the AE300 did very well in his review and group test despite being the smallest. Their characteristic as described by Terry sounds right for me, too, on the face of it. Only fly in the ointment is that the price on these has actually gone up by £50 or £100 to a very serious £700
Wish I could get them all in a room. Or would you be confident TonyRPH that the Dynaudio 52 SE would be better than speakers available today around the ~£700 mark, even if ~15 years old? I think that is what I am to take from your previous post.
Also on the Dynaudios I have read that some of the Contour line perform well?
I am expecting the arrival of the Sony amp today so maybe that will satisfy my January retail therapy needs.
Because I am probably moving this year, the right thing to do is to wait until I see what kind of living room I end up with. That said I am impatient. Also I won't end up with a space where B&W 602 won't look huge so I am in the realm of small standmount speakers. Probably the smaller the better really as it's a living room not a listening room.
I am a bit awkward around the demo'ing thing. I am not sure I can buy something on eBay and then turn up with my amp and demo them. I feel like I'd be able to do that with a new purchase but not so much with a pair of used speakers at a fraction of the price.
I had considered buying a pair of Wharfedale 9.1 as an interim but hadn't noticed that they are only £120 on Amazon
I have been enjoying this guy's Youtube channel Pursuit Perfect System and the AE300 did very well in his review and group test despite being the smallest. Their characteristic as described by Terry sounds right for me, too, on the face of it. Only fly in the ointment is that the price on these has actually gone up by £50 or £100 to a very serious £700
Wish I could get them all in a room. Or would you be confident TonyRPH that the Dynaudio 52 SE would be better than speakers available today around the ~£700 mark, even if ~15 years old? I think that is what I am to take from your previous post.
Also on the Dynaudios I have read that some of the Contour line perform well?
I am expecting the arrival of the Sony amp today so maybe that will satisfy my January retail therapy needs.
HustleRussell said:
I bet they were a happy bunny with that lot for £50!
He certainly was.HustleRussell said:
Because I am probably moving this year, the right thing to do is to wait until I see what kind of living room I end up with. That said I am impatient. Also I won't end up with a space where B&W 602 won't look huge so I am in the realm of small standmount speakers. Probably the smaller the better really as it's a living room not a listening room.
Are the speakers going to be stand mounted, or placed on shelves / furniture?HustleRussell said:
I am a bit awkward around the demo'ing thing. I am not sure I can buy something on eBay and then turn up with my amp and demo them. I feel like I'd be able to do that with a new purchase but not so much with a pair of used speakers at a fraction of the price.
I've yet to demo a 2nd hand purchase - I just pitch up with my money, and pay after ensuring they are ok. It would be somewhat inconsiderate to pitch up with my own gear and expect to hear them attached to that first!HustleRussell said:
I had considered buying a pair of Wharfedale 9.1 as an interim but hadn't noticed that they are only £120 on Amazon
The 9.1s are shockingly good, although many on here would disagree with that.HustleRussell said:
I have been enjoying this guy's Youtube channel Pursuit Perfect System and the AE300 did very well in his review and group test despite being the smallest. Their characteristic as described by Terry sounds right for me, too, on the face of it. Only fly in the ointment is that the price on these has actually gone up by £50 or £100 to a very serious £700
That's a lot of money, but if you are able to demo them fist in your system it would help.Opinions (my own included) are very subjective, and usually biased by the taste of the reviewer.
HustleRussell said:
Wish I could get them all in a room. Or would you be confident TonyRPH that the Dynaudio 52 SE would be better than speakers available today around the ~£700 mark, even if ~15 years old? I think that is what I am to take from your previous post.
The 52 and 52SE are both good speakers - the SE version is a 'hot rodded' version of the 52 - but to be fair, apart from the cabinet the speakers are quite different - but yet retain the Dynaudio sonic signature - I think the SEs are just more refined.HustleRussell said:
Also on the Dynaudios I have read that some of the Contour line perform well?
I've not listened to the contour line (I don't get out much these days - the missus trembles whenever we pass a HiFi shop!!) - so I have no opinion on them.For what it's worth, you do quite often see the 52s (non SE) in use in BBC studios.
HustleRussell said:
I am expecting the arrival of the Sony amp today so maybe that will satisfy my January retail therapy needs.
I'm eagerly awaiting your feedback on this!Really hope the Sony has weathered well over the years and has survived the journey unscathed. Seems a bit careless to have had it posted really but it was in Newport so not at all economical for me to collect.
I will be sure to share my findings with it, probably in the other thread. I'm really not sure what to expect... not sure whether it's reasonable to expect it not to have niggles although the ad described it as being in good working order. The photos weren't very revealing.
I am really excited. I hope it doesn't arrive until late afternoon / evening, in the interest of my employer!
I will be sure to share my findings with it, probably in the other thread. I'm really not sure what to expect... not sure whether it's reasonable to expect it not to have niggles although the ad described it as being in good working order. The photos weren't very revealing.
I am really excited. I hope it doesn't arrive until late afternoon / evening, in the interest of my employer!
[quote=HustleRussell
Also on the Dynaudios I have read that some of the Contour line perform well?
[/quote]
"Old" Contours (1.1 and 1.3 for the standmounts) are absolutely brilliant and will amaze you when you hear a pair (I used to have a pair of 1.3 Mk.2)
There's a scruffy pair of 1.1s with a slightly dented tweeter on Ebay -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354376601020?hash=item5...
At £650 which is really not much less that their new price (about £850 i think), but it is the sort of price they go for.
If you are near him it may be worth a visit.
Also on the Dynaudios I have read that some of the Contour line perform well?
[/quote]
"Old" Contours (1.1 and 1.3 for the standmounts) are absolutely brilliant and will amaze you when you hear a pair (I used to have a pair of 1.3 Mk.2)
There's a scruffy pair of 1.1s with a slightly dented tweeter on Ebay -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354376601020?hash=item5...
At £650 which is really not much less that their new price (about £850 i think), but it is the sort of price they go for.
If you are near him it may be worth a visit.
ACOUSTIC ENERGY RADIANCE ONE SPEAKERS
These were £600 new a few years ago - this seller is offering them for £95 - usual caveats wrt scams etc. etc.
These were £600 new a few years ago - this seller is offering them for £95 - usual caveats wrt scams etc. etc.
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