System for Vinyl and Spotify
Discussion
I have been struggling along with an underpowered amplifier and I am now minded to do something about it. Problem is I don't know exactly what.
My first thought was for an integrated amplifier which features a phono stage for my turntable (MM) as well as a bluetooth input. Those are my main sources- so shoot me. NAD and Audiolab make such things.
However I would consider separates if that was going to be a better route.
Currently I have;
Rega RP1 MM TT
Rega A2D Mini Phono pre-stage*
Separate Bluetooth receiver from Amazon*
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
I expect the turntable and the speakers are still good and was thinking to replace all of the asterisk'd items... perhaps with a single box.
Say I was willing to eventually spend up to £1k to upgrade this system- what would the advice be?
My first thought was for an integrated amplifier which features a phono stage for my turntable (MM) as well as a bluetooth input. Those are my main sources- so shoot me. NAD and Audiolab make such things.
However I would consider separates if that was going to be a better route.
Currently I have;
Rega RP1 MM TT
Rega A2D Mini Phono pre-stage*
Separate Bluetooth receiver from Amazon*
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
I expect the turntable and the speakers are still good and was thinking to replace all of the asterisk'd items... perhaps with a single box.
Say I was willing to eventually spend up to £1k to upgrade this system- what would the advice be?
I had a similar requirement to get a one box type thing for streaming plus turntable, though supporting Chromecast rather than Spotify.
I went with the Arcam SA30 which does allegedly have something called Spotify Connect though I've not tried that out. I imagine that requires a Spotify source like a phone or similar, so not 100% perfect.
I went with the Arcam SA30 which does allegedly have something called Spotify Connect though I've not tried that out. I imagine that requires a Spotify source like a phone or similar, so not 100% perfect.
I have a Yamaha RN-602 in my home office which is an integrated amplifier with a built in phono stage and network streaming including Spotify connect. I think it was only about £350. I'm not sure what the current equivalent model is but they did do more expensive and presumably better versions of the same theme. It's worth looking into as a one box solution with the added bonus of old school aesthetics.
I have a Naim Nova as my main system using a Graham Slee Gran Amp 2 Communicator phono stage with PSU1 power pack. A much more expensive and bulky way to achieve the same features as Yamaha. The Yamaha doesn't sound as nice as my main setup but for the money, it sounds great, has loads of features and will do what you need without breaking the bank (and also allowing for an upgrade path, unlike the Naim kit I have.)
I have a Naim Nova as my main system using a Graham Slee Gran Amp 2 Communicator phono stage with PSU1 power pack. A much more expensive and bulky way to achieve the same features as Yamaha. The Yamaha doesn't sound as nice as my main setup but for the money, it sounds great, has loads of features and will do what you need without breaking the bank (and also allowing for an upgrade path, unlike the Naim kit I have.)
aizvara said:
I had a similar requirement to get a one box type thing for streaming plus turntable, though supporting Chromecast rather than Spotify.
I went with the Arcam SA30 which does allegedly have something called Spotify Connect though I've not tried that out. I imagine that requires a Spotify source like a phone or similar, so not 100% perfect.
Yes I should've said that I would be streaming Spotify from my phone.I went with the Arcam SA30 which does allegedly have something called Spotify Connect though I've not tried that out. I imagine that requires a Spotify source like a phone or similar, so not 100% perfect.
HustleRussell said:
Yes I should've said that I would be streaming Spotify from my phone.
Anything with Spotify connect would be my advice. You can just use the Spotify on your phone as a remote control for your playlists and let the device receive Spotify directly. I'd not be without Spotify connect now. HustleRussell said:
Yes I should've said that I would be streaming Spotify from my phone.
Makes sense. I do recommend the Arcam, then, though you'd probably want to check it really does support Spotify Connect. It's a great amp with a fair bit of power, interesting room correction ability, and a nice clear sound (with dali speakers at least). The MM stage seems good too. I got mine ex demo slightly over your budget I think.
HustleRussell said:
I have been struggling along with an underpowered amplifier and I am now minded to do something about it. Problem is I don't know exactly what.
My first thought was for an integrated amplifier which features a phono stage for my turntable (MM) as well as a bluetooth input. Those are my main sources- so shoot me. NAD and Audiolab make such things.
However I would consider separates if that was going to be a better route.
Currently I have;
Rega RP1 MM TT
Rega A2D Mini Phono pre-stage*
Separate Bluetooth receiver from Amazon*
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
I expect the turntable and the speakers are still good and was thinking to replace all of the asterisk'd items... perhaps with a single box.
Say I was willing to eventually spend up to £1k to upgrade this system- what would the advice be?
Pros and cons: Having everything integrated in the amp potentially saves money and of course it reduces clutter. The question is whether the stuff inside the amp is as good as standalone units, and also what happens if/when standards change? My first thought was for an integrated amplifier which features a phono stage for my turntable (MM) as well as a bluetooth input. Those are my main sources- so shoot me. NAD and Audiolab make such things.
However I would consider separates if that was going to be a better route.
Currently I have;
Rega RP1 MM TT
Rega A2D Mini Phono pre-stage*
Separate Bluetooth receiver from Amazon*
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
I expect the turntable and the speakers are still good and was thinking to replace all of the asterisk'd items... perhaps with a single box.
Say I was willing to eventually spend up to £1k to upgrade this system- what would the advice be?
Phono pre-amp standards aren't going to change. However, you've now got a phono re-amp that does more than just handle the analogue RIAA EQ and signal level conversion. It also converts to digital at 16bit 44.1kHz. Would 96kHz or 192kHz sound significantly better from vinyl? I don't know. But having an external box at least gives you the option to try it should the opportunity ever arise.
I have a standard Rega Phono, and it's very good for the money. Certainly better than the phono pre-amps in most of the AV receivers I'm likely to use in my main AV system. The A2D is equally as good but with a digital out. I'd be surprised if an integrated phono pre-amp changes the game significantly. If anything, the trend is to move to an outboard pre-amp as the main amp quality increases, not the other way round. Also, in the context of your RP1 TT, do you need to go any higher?
The next logical question is whether searching for an amp which must include a phono pre-amp limits your choices. IMO this is the bigger consideration. I'd stick with the Rega and keep my amp choices open.
Bluetooth is where I think you could make some meaningful improvements. Standards here though do evolve more rapidly. Aptx HD and LDAC moved the game forward, but at the same time I think you need to keep an eye on the older standards which are being phased out. BT 4.0 has been with us since 2010 but goes end-of-life in February this year. How long are you planning on keeping any amp for which has BT integrated? What happens when you come to sell it and the particular BT standards it has are no longer supported?
The other question is whether an outboard device might do more, such as streaming. If it was me, I'd get an amp with a built-in DAC, but keep my streaming options open. Something like the Escape M1 Air would be on my shopping list LINK
HustleRussell said:
I have been struggling along with an underpowered amplifier and I am now minded to do something about it.
<snip>
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Unless you have a really large room, or have the bass cranked up to full, I'm struggling to see how the 340A is underpowered.<snip>
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
But if it realy is the case, then you need to at least double that power for an audible difference in perceieved loudness.
Therefore, you should be looking for a 100w RMS (per channel) amp as a bare minimum - I'm not sure how many one box solutions offer that kind of power though...
Lucid_AV said:
Bluetooth is where I think you could make some meaningful improvements. Standards here though do evolve more rapidly. Aptx HD and LDAC moved the game forward, but at the same time I think you need to keep an eye on the older standards which are being phased out. BT 4.0 has been with us since 2010 but goes end-of-life in February this year. How long are you planning on keeping any amp for which has BT integrated? What happens when you come to sell it and the particular BT standards it has are no longer supported?
I think the Spotify Connect stuff uses WiFi rather than BT Audio, but there's some of the same worry with regards to the Spotify Connect client in the device going out of support or similar.TonyRPH said:
Therefore, you should be looking for a 100w RMS (per channel) amp as a bare minimum - I'm not sure how many one box solutions offer that kind of power though...
Arcam SA30 does.TonyRPH said:
HustleRussell said:
I have been struggling along with an underpowered amplifier and I am now minded to do something about it.
<snip>
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
Unless you have a really large room, or have the bass cranked up to full, I'm struggling to see how the 340A is underpowered.<snip>
Cambridge Audio 340A SE (45w into 8 Ohm)*
Mordant Short floor standers (15-150w 4-8 Ohm)
But if it realy is the case, then you need to at least double that power for an audible difference in perceieved loudness.
Therefore, you should be looking for a 100w RMS (per channel) amp as a bare minimum - I'm not sure how many one box solutions offer that kind of power though...
I am also surprised that the amplifier doesn't appear to be up to it. It makes me wonder if something else is wrong;
- A bad combination, or particularly inefficient speakers?
- The amplifier is (and always has been...) a dud?
- Something else?
It seems important that I get to the bottom of this if what I am experiencing is not to be expected with an amp and speakers like these?
dundarach, toon – two options which I hadn’t seen. Kept out by my ‘Bluetooth’ filters. Seems like I definitely needed to re-think how I am streaming my music.
Aizvara – Fancy selling it to me
? That Arcam is £1,699 everywhere.
Lucid_AV – A good challenge and I’m here for it. I do keep things a long time and redundancy and obsolescence annoy me a lot. Multiple boxes will also annoy me. More cables to manage. More dusting. I did wonder if I was trying to be too clever combining it all into one box. It’s the kind of thing I do- agonise about the purchase forever, force myself into some niche and end up buying the wrong thing. The turntable is the bit I am most happy with, and I’ve nothing to fault in particular with the phono stage.
Aizvara – Fancy selling it to me
? That Arcam is £1,699 everywhere.Lucid_AV – A good challenge and I’m here for it. I do keep things a long time and redundancy and obsolescence annoy me a lot. Multiple boxes will also annoy me. More cables to manage. More dusting. I did wonder if I was trying to be too clever combining it all into one box. It’s the kind of thing I do- agonise about the purchase forever, force myself into some niche and end up buying the wrong thing. The turntable is the bit I am most happy with, and I’ve nothing to fault in particular with the phono stage.
HustleRussell said:
Aizvara – Fancy selling it to me ? That Arcam is £1,699 everywhere.
Yeah, sorry, realised on my second post that it would be over budget. £1,699 is cheaper than the retail price when I bought it, but I found an ex-demo one for £1300 I think. ? That Arcam is £1,699 everywhere.(Also, as above - the SA30 does the Spotify/Chromecast/Airplay2 thing via your wired/wifi home network rather than BT, so that might dissuade you further).
TonyRPH said:
Unless you have a really large room, or have the bass cranked up to full, I'm struggling to see how the 340A is underpowered.
The thing is, the CA specs for the 340SE are a bit vague, so it might read like a 45W amp, but it might not be measured in a comparable way to other Hi-Fi amps. The manual says it's 45W into 8 Ohm and 55W into 4 Ohm. It then goes on to give THD figures for 1kHz and 20kHz.
What's missing is whether 45W is with 1 or both channels driven, and spot or continuous measurement, and is this 45W playing a 1kHz tone or 20-20k Hz, and at what THD figure.
Worst case scenario is 45W with a single channel driven at 1kHz tone for a fraction of a second and with 10% THD. That's throwing everything at the wall to get as big a number as possible.
If the amp were measured on Hi-Fi terms then it would be both channels, continuous, full range audio, and no more than 0.1%THD. That would leave a lot of headroom (extra power) available because the wattage rating would be very conservative.
Measured the other way the power from the amp could be more like a 20W amp measured above.
I was chatting with someone else who "upgraded" from a Marantz PM6004 to a Denon X3800 for a 2-channel system because he wanted it "all in one box". The paper spec suggested the Denon had over 100W per channel in stereo mode. He has found that the Marantz sounded louded with stronger bass.
CA is a good brand, but tye 340 amp was a couple of hundred quid, and I'm guessing that the SE was maybe £50 more. There's only so much performance to be had when there's not a lot of money in the kitty.
Lucid_AV said:
The thing is, the CA specs for the 340SE are a bit vague, so it might read like a 45W amp, but it might not be measured in a comparable way to other Hi-Fi amps.
The manual says it's 45W into 8 Ohm and 55W into 4 Ohm. It then goes on to give THD figures for 1kHz and 20kHz.
<snip>
The 340A uses the Ti LM3886 'overture' series output chip - this chip is well respected in the audio community.The manual says it's 45W into 8 Ohm and 55W into 4 Ohm. It then goes on to give THD figures for 1kHz and 20kHz.
<snip>
DESCRIPTION
The LM3886 is a high-performance audio power amplifier capable of delivering 68W of continuous
average power to a 4Ω load and 38W into 8Ω with 0.1% THD+N from 20Hz–20kHz.
The 340A runs it at 28-0-28v DC which with the 3886 chip equates to 68W continuous (not peak) into 4 ohms and 38W into 8 ohms.
The transforner used in the 340A is a hefty, generously rated toroidal affair - and I know for a fact that on 240V mains it yellds a fair bit more than 28vDC.
I suspect the OP either has a dud amp or there is some other issue with the system.
A suggestion from me for an upgrade would be to try and listen to a Rega Elex.
It's a stunning amp for the money, I know it's above budget, but if you like it you may be able to persuade your local dealer to sell you their dem one at a discount.
You will not only get a better amp, (I think the phono stage is better than the A2D also) you will have an amp that will do justice to much better speakers than the ones you have just now.
It's a stunning amp for the money, I know it's above budget, but if you like it you may be able to persuade your local dealer to sell you their dem one at a discount.
You will not only get a better amp, (I think the phono stage is better than the A2D also) you will have an amp that will do justice to much better speakers than the ones you have just now.
TonyRPH said:
The 340A uses the Ti LM3886 'overture' series output chip - this chip is well respected in the audio community.
DESCRIPTION
The LM3886 is a high-performance audio power amplifier capable of delivering 68W of continuous
average power to a 4? load and 38W into 8? with 0.1% THD+N from 20Hz–20kHz.
The 340A runs it at 28-0-28v DC which with the 3886 chip equates to 68W continuous (not peak) into 4 ohms and 38W into 8 ohms.
The transforner used in the 340A is a hefty, generously rated toroidal affair - and I know for a fact that on 240V mains it yellds a fair bit more than 28vDC.
I suspect the OP either has a dud amp or there is some other issue with the system.
You may well be right that the amp could have a problem. Maybe there's a wiring issue with the speaker cables - one speaker out of phase? - who knows?DESCRIPTION
The LM3886 is a high-performance audio power amplifier capable of delivering 68W of continuous
average power to a 4? load and 38W into 8? with 0.1% THD+N from 20Hz–20kHz.
The 340A runs it at 28-0-28v DC which with the 3886 chip equates to 68W continuous (not peak) into 4 ohms and 38W into 8 ohms.
The transforner used in the 340A is a hefty, generously rated toroidal affair - and I know for a fact that on 240V mains it yellds a fair bit more than 28vDC.
I suspect the OP either has a dud amp or there is some other issue with the system.
On the amp though, I'm simply asking if anyone has measured its performance? I can't argue with the chip or transformer info. However, despite specs, and UK mains voltage being 230V, the numbers don't match up. 38W into 8 Ohms isn't the 45W that CA claims, and 68W in to 4 Ohms is much higher than the 55W CA says the amp does with that load. 7W @ 8 Ohms difference is probably neither here nor there when the amp is playing at higher volumes, but 1W can deliver 88-90dB/W/m with reasonable floorstanders.
I'm just curious because so far none of the usual mags or review sites appear to have any detailed figures on the 340A or the SE version. The higher-end amps do measure well, but they're a lot more money and so fewer corners get cut.
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