What music source for new audio system?

[belowdeck]

I have previously only really listened to music using my 5.1 surround system (Yamaha AV receiver paired with my Canton 5.1 speakers). It sounds fine to me as there was clarity, volume and a decent amount of bass. My source of music was either Youtube or Spotify via my TV.

Recently I had the urge to buy a standalone music system for my new house with the aim of better quality audio. This consists of a dedicated Yamaha AS201 integrated amplifier paired with Wharfdale 220 speakers from RS. I have also connected my Sony BR player to the system which I use to play some of my old CD’s. This sounds reasonably good but TBH I’m not overly impressed compared to my previous set up. Not much of a step up in audio quality.

However, I would like to listen to Youtube and Spotify on the new system. I have connected my mobile phone via phono to 3.5 jack cable and it does not sound good. I have connected my laptop also via 3.5 jack cable and it sounds better but only just. Neither sound as good as the CD played through the bluray player.

What should be my next steps, I need a better source system to play my playlists? Can I connect the integrated amplifier to my 70” LG TV to access Youtube and Spotify? Do I need a DAC to do this?

[Blue Oval84]

You could give one of these a go, to connect directly into the new receiver maybe? I've bought it as a gift for someone to do exactly what you're describing, but haven't tried it yet, specs seem decent though.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09HC5GRKY/

That said, the problem may just be Spotify, it tops out at 320Kbps, whereas a service like Tidal will go up to lossless audio.

[pete_esp]

I've been musing over this quite a bit recently as I'm in a similar situation though I have a Denon PMA600NE driving some Fyne Audio F300s (which blow me away for their performance, never mind at this price point), I am currently streaming from my phone or macbook to an AppleTV 3rd gen and using the optical out of that into the optical in of the Denon.

Works and sounds great! When it works, as the Apple TV is 10 years old it keeps forgetting it's got WiFi.

After considering the exact same problem as you for months I decided the best bet would be to buy a dedicated streamer, got shocked at how much they cost and stuck with the Apple TV.

Until this morning when I splashed out on a Marantz ND8006 combined CD player & Network streamer. I went this way because it has build in HEOS which my AV system (Denon AX2700H) has and I've found to be rock solid. Andi get to listen to my CDs again.

So my suggestion is to go looking for a Network Streamer, if possible you might get a try before you buy or pop into RS and get them to demo one on a replica of your system.

[belowdeck]

Thank you for the replies. I like the idea of a network streamer but at the moment don't have the funds to purchase. I know the system is capable of decent sound quality from the playback of my CD's.

I also know my phone plays back Spotify and Youtube to a good standard as I listened to it via Bluetooth on my Bowers and Wilkins system in my BMW and also my wifes Merc GLC with a Burmester audio. I'm not sure why it doesn't do that same when connected to my integrated amplifier.

[bcr5784]

Blue Oval84 said:

You could give one of these a go, to connect directly into the new receiver maybe? I've bought it as a gift for someone to do exactly what you're describing, but haven't tried it yet, specs seem decent though.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09HC5GRKY/

That said, the problem may just be Spotify, it tops out at 320Kbps, whereas a service like Tidal will go up to lossless audio.

I very much doubt whether you'd tell the difference 320kbs and lossless audio. If there is a noticeable difference then I think it is much more likely to be somewhere else in the chain.

[Zumbruk]

If you're up for some tinkering/geekery, I've got a Logitech Squeezebox network streamer based system (one server, 4 clients) feeding CDs ripped to FLAC. The main client is an SB Duet feeding an Arcam Alpha 10 driving a pair of QUAD ESL988s. All bought s/h. Likely the best hifi I'm ever going to need (and one of the best I've ever heard.) I have various other setups in the kitchen and study with Squeezeboxes feeding various different amps/speakers.

The Squeezebox hardware is obsolete and getting hard to find and very expensive these days, but the software is Open Source and the client is readily installed on a Raspberry Pi. The server is available for Linux, Windows, Mac and several proprietary NAS boxes. There's a large and enthusiastic community of Squeezebox users, so the software is still being supported, plug-ins being developed and so on. There's a remote control for Android phones as well as the dedicated Squeezebox remotes, or you drive it from a web browser.

I've always thought that commercial network streamer boxes are very expensive for what they are, Sonos grotesquely so.

Edited by Zumbruk on Thursday 15th December 15:34

[OutInTheShed]

For about £20, you can get a Prozor DAC which will (AFAIK) connect to your phone via BlueTooth or your TV via optical.
I have two of these, one bluetooth, the other just optical, they sound fine to me and have a decent DAC IC in them.

I use both with an optical input, one from my PC, the other from the telly.

I also mess about with a Raspberry PI and a DAC 'hat'.

[pete_esp]

You could connect the optical out from your TV to the optical in of your amp and give it a listen. Let us know how you get on

[belowdeck]

Zumbruk said:

If you're up for some tinkering/geekery, I've got a Logitech Squeezebox network streamer based system (one server, 4 clients) feeding CDs ripped to FLAC. The main client is an SB Duet feeding an Arcam Alpha 10 driving a pair of QUAD ESL988s. All bought s/h. Likely the best hifi I'm ever going to need (and one of the best I've ever heard.) I have various other setups in the kitchen and study with Squeezeboxes feeding various different amps/speakers.

The Squeezebox hardware is obsolete and getting hard to find and very expensive these days, but the software is Open Source and the client is readily installed on a Raspberry Pi. The server is available for Linux, Windows, Mac and several proprietary NAS boxes. There's a large and enthusiastic community of Squeezebox users, so the software is still being supported, plug-ins being developed and so on. There's a remote control for Android phones as well as the dedicated Squeezebox remotes, or you drive it from a web browser.

I've always thought that commercial network streamer boxes are very expensive for what they are, Sonos grotesquely so.

Edited by Zumbruk on Thursday 15th December 15:34

This sounds great and I will look into further however, as much as I love a challenge, it may be outside my technical abilities to actually set up

[belowdeck]

OutInTheShed said:

For about £20, you can get a Prozor DAC which will (AFAIK) connect to your phone via BlueTooth or your TV via optical.
I have two of these, one bluetooth, the other just optical, they sound fine to me and have a decent DAC IC in them.

I use both with an optical input, one from my PC, the other from the telly.

I also mess about with a Raspberry PI and a DAC 'hat'.

Thank you, this sounds like the route I may take as I want to connect the TV sound output via its Optical to my integrated amplifier. What output connections does the DAC as my integrated amplifier does not have a Optical input, only phono's?

[belowdeck]

pete_esp said:

You could connect the optical out from your TV to the optical in of your amp and give it a listen. Let us know how you get on

Thank you, the integrated amplifier does not have a optical input which is a stumbling block for me.

[legzr1]

belowdeck said:

OutInTheShed said:

For about £20, you can get a Prozor DAC which will (AFAIK) connect to your phone via BlueTooth or your TV via optical.
I have two of these, one bluetooth, the other just optical, they sound fine to me and have a decent DAC IC in them.

I use both with an optical input, one from my PC, the other from the telly.

I also mess about with a Raspberry PI and a DAC 'hat'.

Thank you, this sounds like the route I may take as I want to connect the TV sound output via its Optical to my integrated amplifier. What output connections does the DAC as my integrated amplifier does not have a Optical input, only phono's?

For £22 this is a no-brainier.

Your Yamaha amp is analogue only, it doesn’t have internal DACs and will only accept analogue inputs.

Buy that Prozac DAC, optical from TV to DAC, analogue RCA from DAC to a spare input on the amp.
In your TV sound settings, change the digital sound output to stereo PCM. DD or DTS (or any other multi-channel digital signal) will result in silence.

[Lucid_AV]

I haven't time to read through all the replies, but the timing of this question is coincidental. My son just found out why I still listen to CD and vinyl.

He's 19. Like most teens now, he grew up with the internet and YouTube always being around. It has been his go-to for music and videos. This gets played mostly through a sound bar, phone speaker or occassionally a little BT speaker.

I've got a good system which he has used numerous times, but mostly for YT tracks and maybe some gaming.

A couple of nights ago we had a music and beer session. We were bouncing track choices off each other, and I suggested a Black Keys track. "Girl is on my mind." We played this from YT and it sounded okay, but I went and grabbed the CD. We listened again, and it was a bit of a revelation to him. Instead of tge mush of a mix where the boundaries between the instruments blurred and the vocal got buried, the CD version was so much clearer. We went back to the YT version and it sounded a jumbled mess by comparison.

I tried him with some other stuff without saying what it was. So What by Miles Davis from Kind of Blue. After the intro he started to get the beat. After a couple of minutes he was jabbering away about how he could hear the musicians riffing off each other and how it was easy to follow what was going on. We played loads of other stuff. I have pretty diverse musical tastes. He loved the bass from Lamb's "Merge" and "Gold".

I think three things happened at tye same time that he hadn't experienced before. We were playing good quality source music through a system able to show the benefit over YT's offerings, and we were playing it loud.

The loud thing I think makes a big difference. We couldn't just talk to each other. A bit of shouting was required when the music was playing. Without the volume the dynamics aren't there.

The Wharfedale speakers are good, and the Yam receiver is at least as good as the Yam AV amp I was using. A sub wouldn't go amiss. The source though is critical, and if you're not hearing the difference compared to the precious Canton system then volume could be part of the reason.

[GravelBen]

Do you still have the Yamaha AV receiver, and what model is it?

Depending on the model it may have decent DACs and line outs, if so you could use it as a pre-amp for the AS-201. Just don't run speaker power outputs to the AS201 inputs!

Depending on the age it may even have Music-Cast built in, which sorts you for wireless streaming from phones etc.

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 15th December 22:44

[belowdeck]

Lucid_AV said:

I haven't time to read through all the replies, but the timing of this question is coincidental. My son just found out why I still listen to CD and vinyl.

He's 19. Like most teens now, he grew up with the internet and YouTube always being around. It has been his go-to for music and videos. This gets played mostly through a sound bar, phone speaker or occassionally a little BT speaker.

I've got a good system which he has used numerous times, but mostly for YT tracks and maybe some gaming.

A couple of nights ago we had a music and beer session. We were bouncing track choices off each other, and I suggested a Black Keys track. "Girl is on my mind." We played this from YT and it sounded okay, but I went and grabbed the CD. We listened again, and it was a bit of a revelation to him. Instead of tge mush of a mix where the boundaries between the instruments blurred and the vocal got buried, the CD version was so much clearer. We went back to the YT version and it sounded a jumbled mess by comparison.

I tried him with some other stuff without saying what it was. So What by Miles Davis from Kind of Blue. After the intro he started to get the beat. After a couple of minutes he was jabbering away about how he could hear the musicians riffing off each other and how it was easy to follow what was going on. We played loads of other stuff. I have pretty diverse musical tastes. He loved the bass from Lamb's "Merge" and "Gold".

I think three things happened at tye same time that he hadn't experienced before. We were playing good quality source music through a system able to show the benefit over YT's offerings, and we were playing it loud.

The loud thing I think makes a big difference. We couldn't just talk to each other. A bit of shouting was required when the music was playing. Without the volume the dynamics aren't there.

The Wharfedale speakers are good, and the Yam receiver is at least as good as the Yam AV amp I was using. A sub wouldn't go amiss. The source though is critical, and if you're not hearing the difference compared to the precious Canton system then volume could be part of the reason.

Thank you for sharing, after my experience I certainly see the truth in that and agree the source of the music makes a massive difference. I too like to crank up the volume and and the Wharfdale Diamond 220 sound do sound great considering their size. I will add the Canton sub to the set up this weekend and see what improvements that adds.

[belowdeck]

GravelBen said:

Do you still have the Yamaha AV receiver, and what model is it?

Depending on the model it may have decent DACs and line outs, if so you could use it as a pre-amp for the AS-201. Just don't run speaker power outputs to the AS201 inputs!

Depending on the age it may even have Music-Cast built in, which sorts you for wireless streaming from phones etc.

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 15th December 22:44

Good point and thank you, I still have the Yamaha AV receiver (model RX373). I've just checked the spec as I did not know that this functionality existed. It mentions 192kHz/24-bit DACs for all channels (Yes Burr-Brown) - is this the same thing? There is no music cast as the AV receiver is nearly 10 years old.

[OutInTheShed]

belowdeck said:

OutInTheShed said:

For about £20, you can get a Prozor DAC which will (AFAIK) connect to your phone via BlueTooth or your TV via optical.
I have two of these, one bluetooth, the other just optical, they sound fine to me and have a decent DAC IC in them.

I use both with an optical input, one from my PC, the other from the telly.

I also mess about with a Raspberry PI and a DAC 'hat'.

Thank you, this sounds like the route I may take as I want to connect the TV sound output via its Optical to my integrated amplifier. What output connections does the DAC as my integrated amplifier does not have a Optical input, only phono's?

This looks like the one I have,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proster-Converter-Adjusta...

Also have the cheaper one sans BlueTooth.
Both have 3.5mm headphone and phono sockets as outputs.
Be aware they will only drive high impedance earphones not big headphones.

Slight issue with them, they are a light little metal box, so don't stay still under the influence of fat 'Audiophille' double shielded phono cables....

[OutInTheShed]

Lucid_AV said:

..

A couple of nights ago we had a music and beer session.....

The Wharfedale speakers are good, and the Yam receiver is at least as good as the Yam AV amp I was using. A sub wouldn't go amiss. The source though is critical, and if you're not hearing the difference compared to the precious Canton system then volume could be part of the reason.

The thing I can never be sure of is how much of the 'volume dependency' is in the HiFi and how much is me.

Also a couple of beers generally improves a lot of music.

[GravelBen]

belowdeck said:

GravelBen said:

Do you still have the Yamaha AV receiver, and what model is it?

Depending on the model it may have decent DACs and line outs, if so you could use it as a pre-amp for the AS-201. Just don't run speaker power outputs to the AS201 inputs!

Depending on the age it may even have Music-Cast built in, which sorts you for wireless streaming from phones etc.

Good point and thank you, I still have the Yamaha AV receiver (model RX373). I've just checked the spec as I did not know that this functionality existed. It mentions 192kHz/24-bit DACs for all channels (Yes Burr-Brown) - is this the same thing? There is no music cast as the AV receiver is nearly 10 years old.

OK so its an older lower end receiver, but I think those DACs would still be far better than the DAC in a phone or laptop. If you don't already know DAC means digital-analog converter - basically it converts an encoded digital signal (1's and 0's) into a smooth waveform for an amp to amplify and drive speakers with. Any device playing digitally stored music has one, it may sound simple but they are certainly not all equal.

It looks like the RX373 has digital inputs and analog 'audio out' RCA plugs.

So you should be able to connect your TV's digital output to the RX373 by optical or coaxial cable, set the RX373 to a stereo mode and connect its 'audio out' to the AS201.

If the AS201 doesn't have a subwoofer output itself, you could see if the RX373 subwoofer output works in conjunction with the audio output to the AS201.

Its a bit of a bulky solution, but uses what you already have and doesn't cost anything to try out. A bit of experimenting with speaker position and angle is always worthwhile as well, it can make a remarkable difference.

One of my setups is pretty similar, an old Yamaha RX797 stereo receiver driving Wharfedale Diamond 225's. It sounds very nice so I would have good expectations of your system too.

[Griffith4ever]

bcr5784 said:

I very much doubt whether you'd tell the difference 320kbs and lossless audio. If there is a noticeable difference then I think it is much more likely to be somewhere else in the chain.

My mp3s are all ripped at 320 and when I play them back to back with the actual CDs (Sonos original amp unit acting purely as a source vs nice marantz CD) the CDs have a life and depth the mp3s do not.