Issue with treble on headphone system. Chesky CD
Discussion
I am trying to identify the cause of a problem with the treble reproduction in my headphone system.
Previously, I ran a Naim CD5X with Flatcap 2X, Pathos Aurium Headphone amplifier (with upgraded sBooster PSU) and Grado RS1 headphones. This set up sounded quite good but there was a particular part of a track where the female vocals were unable to be replicated properly. This was the bonus track on Gwyneth Herbert’s All the Ghosts album (Naim’s own label). it is an acoustic track and, towards the end, her voice gets quite shrill and peaks loudly. For want of a better phrase the highs just seemed to get cut off and crash/collapse for a brief period (micro-second) at the peaks of the treble. I made the decision that the issue must be with one of five things. The CD player, the amp, the headphones, the CD or my ears. Given this problem did not exist on my speaker system, which uses the same CD player, I deduced (possibly incorrectly) that the issue could not lie with the CD player, the CD or my ears. I had already been considering a headphone upgrade, so I replaced the RS1s with a pair of Audeze LCD-Xs and this solved the problem.
I now have a similar issue with Melissa Menago’s Little Crimes album (Chesky). The CD sounds excellent, exactly how I want it to, BUT there is an issue on Track 7. This is a cover of Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah and unfortunately, towards the end, there is a part of the track where the vocals again fall down. The closest I can describe the sound is like if you were to blow across the edge of a piece of paper. It is for the briefest of moments but is definitely there and in both ears (it is a binaural+ recording) and comes in like a diagonal line from low in the left ear to high up in the right ear.
My current system is perfect for my budget and listening preferences but having heard this ‘fault’ it is now bugging me. I cannot hear this through my speaker system (Pathos Logos MKII and B&W 805S) so, it is either the headphone system that isn’t up to the job or the extra resolution is picking out an issue that my speakers can’t.
This is not my first issue with a Chesky recording (if indeed the issue lies there) as I find the constant hissing on Meiko’s cover of the Cranberries classic ‘Zombie’ to be extremely noticeable on my speakers and renders the track unlistenable to on my headphones. The noise is always there but only really noticeable in the otherwise silent passages. Less noticeable on other tracks but I think this is due to the fact there are fewer silent passages in the other tracks.
I wonder if anybody else has Little Crimes and could listen to Track 7 between 4.45 and 4.55 (I believe the issues are at 4.48 and 4.51) and let me know what they hear. The issue is reduced by lowering the volume but it is there regardless.
Also, if anybody has Meiko’s ‘Playing Favorites’, I would be interested to know what the constant fizzing/hissing is, as I have only heard praise for the sound quality with it being widely regarded as one of Chesky’s finer efforts.
Previously, I ran a Naim CD5X with Flatcap 2X, Pathos Aurium Headphone amplifier (with upgraded sBooster PSU) and Grado RS1 headphones. This set up sounded quite good but there was a particular part of a track where the female vocals were unable to be replicated properly. This was the bonus track on Gwyneth Herbert’s All the Ghosts album (Naim’s own label). it is an acoustic track and, towards the end, her voice gets quite shrill and peaks loudly. For want of a better phrase the highs just seemed to get cut off and crash/collapse for a brief period (micro-second) at the peaks of the treble. I made the decision that the issue must be with one of five things. The CD player, the amp, the headphones, the CD or my ears. Given this problem did not exist on my speaker system, which uses the same CD player, I deduced (possibly incorrectly) that the issue could not lie with the CD player, the CD or my ears. I had already been considering a headphone upgrade, so I replaced the RS1s with a pair of Audeze LCD-Xs and this solved the problem.
I now have a similar issue with Melissa Menago’s Little Crimes album (Chesky). The CD sounds excellent, exactly how I want it to, BUT there is an issue on Track 7. This is a cover of Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah and unfortunately, towards the end, there is a part of the track where the vocals again fall down. The closest I can describe the sound is like if you were to blow across the edge of a piece of paper. It is for the briefest of moments but is definitely there and in both ears (it is a binaural+ recording) and comes in like a diagonal line from low in the left ear to high up in the right ear.
My current system is perfect for my budget and listening preferences but having heard this ‘fault’ it is now bugging me. I cannot hear this through my speaker system (Pathos Logos MKII and B&W 805S) so, it is either the headphone system that isn’t up to the job or the extra resolution is picking out an issue that my speakers can’t.
This is not my first issue with a Chesky recording (if indeed the issue lies there) as I find the constant hissing on Meiko’s cover of the Cranberries classic ‘Zombie’ to be extremely noticeable on my speakers and renders the track unlistenable to on my headphones. The noise is always there but only really noticeable in the otherwise silent passages. Less noticeable on other tracks but I think this is due to the fact there are fewer silent passages in the other tracks.
I wonder if anybody else has Little Crimes and could listen to Track 7 between 4.45 and 4.55 (I believe the issues are at 4.48 and 4.51) and let me know what they hear. The issue is reduced by lowering the volume but it is there regardless.
Also, if anybody has Meiko’s ‘Playing Favorites’, I would be interested to know what the constant fizzing/hissing is, as I have only heard praise for the sound quality with it being widely regarded as one of Chesky’s finer efforts.
Tony1963 said:
OutInTheShed said:
Tinnitus.
That was my first thought. It’s quite common, and people need to be honest with themselves about it. I have quite a few 'audiophile' grade recordings and have only encountered an issue with one part of one track with my current headphone set up.
A good proportion of my CDs are made by what would be termed 'audiophile labels' and this is the only one where I have detected an issue. The rest are still fairly decent recordings - along the lines of Decca, Sony, Deutsche Grammophon etc but they are not in the same league for sound quality. This is why I was surprised to find an issue on the better made music.
As you say, I don't want to spend any time or money remedying whatever the issue is but it bugs me knowing it's there.
I was hoping to find somebody who had the same recording and would be prepared to listen to that part of the track for me. I know there are people on PH with exceptional systems and if the issue does in fact lie with the disc, it should (I would imagine) be even more pronounced on theirs. I suspect it would have to be on a headphone system though.
As you say, I don't want to spend any time or money remedying whatever the issue is but it bugs me knowing it's there.
I was hoping to find somebody who had the same recording and would be prepared to listen to that part of the track for me. I know there are people on PH with exceptional systems and if the issue does in fact lie with the disc, it should (I would imagine) be even more pronounced on theirs. I suspect it would have to be on a headphone system though.
I thought the OP's name was relevant, as I suspect I've damaged my hearing via the wind roar of cheap crash helmets.
There is a lot going on between the CD and the brain, and I don't think it pays to discount the stuff that happens inboard of your skull.
However there are also a fair few subtle things that might go wrong between the CD and the earphones.
Some of these things need not be an actual fault with one component, they could be interactions between components, such as a speaker presenting a strange load to an amp which then rings, oscillates, distorts or develops strange amplitude or phase characteristics.
Could be a poor contact.
My hifi is a random selection of stuff mostly bought secondhand, and I've had a few things not sound right and tried investigating.
First thing is to swap out various components and see if the effect goes away, or even gets worse. Everyone has at least two of everything surely?
Sometimes it's easier to swap left and right at various points.
I've identified actual faults like this and now have a couple of old amps which I know need looking at.
I've also formed opinions about various combinations of 'respectable' kit being better or worse than others, or at least notably different.
I suspect the combinational effects may be more extreme and more prevalent with esoteric 'audiophile' stuff which attracts fluffy prose in magazines.
Maybe sometimes these problems really do go away when you spend more money on cables?
I might be tempted to look at the CD output with a spectrum analyser or soundcard scope, maybe just rip it into an editor program that lets you look at the waveform. If you put the short segment that grates into a loop, you could then compare the output of the headphone amp to the input, with and without the loading of the headphones..
There is a lot going on between the CD and the brain, and I don't think it pays to discount the stuff that happens inboard of your skull.
However there are also a fair few subtle things that might go wrong between the CD and the earphones.
Some of these things need not be an actual fault with one component, they could be interactions between components, such as a speaker presenting a strange load to an amp which then rings, oscillates, distorts or develops strange amplitude or phase characteristics.
Could be a poor contact.
My hifi is a random selection of stuff mostly bought secondhand, and I've had a few things not sound right and tried investigating.
First thing is to swap out various components and see if the effect goes away, or even gets worse. Everyone has at least two of everything surely?
Sometimes it's easier to swap left and right at various points.
I've identified actual faults like this and now have a couple of old amps which I know need looking at.
I've also formed opinions about various combinations of 'respectable' kit being better or worse than others, or at least notably different.
I suspect the combinational effects may be more extreme and more prevalent with esoteric 'audiophile' stuff which attracts fluffy prose in magazines.
Maybe sometimes these problems really do go away when you spend more money on cables?
I might be tempted to look at the CD output with a spectrum analyser or soundcard scope, maybe just rip it into an editor program that lets you look at the waveform. If you put the short segment that grates into a loop, you could then compare the output of the headphone amp to the input, with and without the loading of the headphones..
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