ATC SCM50 ASLT + new DAC?
Discussion
My old trusty Meridian 558 amplifier is giving up the ghost. Having just paid nearly £500 to get it repaired, and waiting nearly a full year (yes one year "due to covid") it is broken again with the same fault within 3 weeks. So I'm going to return it back to the repair shop so they can have another go, but I'm wondering if I should upgrade as it is quite an old amplifier now.
I bought a pair of Spendor A6 speakers about 10 years ago, but after being amazed with the shop demo, they have never sounded that special in my home, probably because I never had a good enough source.
At the time (10 years ago) I decided that DACs just weren't as good vs vinyl so I have just used my system for movies and background music. And with a sonos system being more wife friendly, it is really now just for movies, which is a shame.
Having watched a few DAC reviews, it seems DAC technology has come a long way in the last ten years (although this might just be reviewer hype).
So I'm thinking about what to replace it with - my front room is medium sized at about 5.5m x 4m. After reading a lot of reviews, I'm kind of persuaded by the logic of active speakers rather than passive. So I was thinking about the ATC SCM50 ASLT which I think should be wife friendly enough to be not too overbearing in the room.
For the DAC I was thinking about the Denafrips Pontus or maybe the Holo Audio May. I'm not sure currently how much other people are spending on their DAC vs speakers/amp currently.
The other question is about pricing - the DAC I mentioned seems to be straight forward as there are limited dealers with fixed pricing. But with the ATC speakers, does anyone know if some ATC dealers are more competitive than others?
I bought a pair of Spendor A6 speakers about 10 years ago, but after being amazed with the shop demo, they have never sounded that special in my home, probably because I never had a good enough source.
At the time (10 years ago) I decided that DACs just weren't as good vs vinyl so I have just used my system for movies and background music. And with a sonos system being more wife friendly, it is really now just for movies, which is a shame.
Having watched a few DAC reviews, it seems DAC technology has come a long way in the last ten years (although this might just be reviewer hype).
So I'm thinking about what to replace it with - my front room is medium sized at about 5.5m x 4m. After reading a lot of reviews, I'm kind of persuaded by the logic of active speakers rather than passive. So I was thinking about the ATC SCM50 ASLT which I think should be wife friendly enough to be not too overbearing in the room.
For the DAC I was thinking about the Denafrips Pontus or maybe the Holo Audio May. I'm not sure currently how much other people are spending on their DAC vs speakers/amp currently.
The other question is about pricing - the DAC I mentioned seems to be straight forward as there are limited dealers with fixed pricing. But with the ATC speakers, does anyone know if some ATC dealers are more competitive than others?
tonyg58 said:
I would advise you to think twice about those ATCs in a room of your size.
I think they will be too big for the room (both physically and sound wise).
That's interesting - I thought the SCM50's might be ok? I did initially think about the SCM100's under I actually measured them and realised they were huge!I think they will be too big for the room (both physically and sound wise).
Is there a minimum sqm size that you think is necessary for the SCM50?
The thing about Hifi is it's a lot about experience and trial and error.
In general big speakers need more room to breath.
You've got a speaker that's nearly 50cm deep and 30cm wide and even being front ported (I don't know if there is a rear port also) I doubt they will work well unless they are about 50cm from the back and rear walls.
So now you have (approx) each speaker that has the front 1m from the back wall and the inside edge nearly 80cm away from the side wall.
That leaves them really close together on your short wall or a long way down your room on the long wall.
There is no need (IMHO) for a speaker in a UK size living room to have a 10 inch bass unit, fine for huge US rooms, but not the UK.
If you want to use active speakers I think the SCM19A would be more than adequate if you want to stay with ATC.
There are others like the Dali Callisto and the Dynaudio Focus XD range (and no doubt more, but i've heard Dalis and Dynaudios and they are good products) with the Dynaudios you won't even need a DAC
Also if you have a look at the specs (which aren't always the best guide) the Dynaudio 60 XD will go down to 18Hz while the SCM50s are struggling at 50Hz ! (I think that may be wrong??)
This would also leave you more money to spend on a better DAC (I'm not familiar with the DACs you have suggested so won't comment) or pay for many years worth of online music services.
As always try to listen (ideally at home) before buying.
In general big speakers need more room to breath.
You've got a speaker that's nearly 50cm deep and 30cm wide and even being front ported (I don't know if there is a rear port also) I doubt they will work well unless they are about 50cm from the back and rear walls.
So now you have (approx) each speaker that has the front 1m from the back wall and the inside edge nearly 80cm away from the side wall.
That leaves them really close together on your short wall or a long way down your room on the long wall.
There is no need (IMHO) for a speaker in a UK size living room to have a 10 inch bass unit, fine for huge US rooms, but not the UK.
If you want to use active speakers I think the SCM19A would be more than adequate if you want to stay with ATC.
There are others like the Dali Callisto and the Dynaudio Focus XD range (and no doubt more, but i've heard Dalis and Dynaudios and they are good products) with the Dynaudios you won't even need a DAC
Also if you have a look at the specs (which aren't always the best guide) the Dynaudio 60 XD will go down to 18Hz while the SCM50s are struggling at 50Hz ! (I think that may be wrong??)
This would also leave you more money to spend on a better DAC (I'm not familiar with the DACs you have suggested so won't comment) or pay for many years worth of online music services.
As always try to listen (ideally at home) before buying.
tonyg58 said:
The thing about Hifi is it's a lot about experience and trial and error.
In general big speakers need more room to breath.
You've got a speaker that's nearly 50cm deep and 30cm wide and even being front ported (I don't know if there is a rear port also) I doubt they will work well unless they are about 50cm from the back and rear walls.
So now you have (approx) each speaker that has the front 1m from the back wall and the inside edge nearly 80cm away from the side wall.
That leaves them really close together on your short wall or a long way down your room on the long wall.
There is no need (IMHO) for a speaker in a UK size living room to have a 10 inch bass unit, fine for huge US rooms, but not the UK.
If you want to use active speakers I think the SCM19A would be more than adequate if you want to stay with ATC.
There are others like the Dali Callisto and the Dynaudio Focus XD range (and no doubt more, but i've heard Dalis and Dynaudios and they are good products) with the Dynaudios you won't even need a DAC
Also if you have a look at the specs (which aren't always the best guide) the Dynaudio 60 XD will go down to 18Hz while the SCM50s are struggling at 50Hz ! (I think that may be wrong??)
This would also leave you more money to spend on a better DAC (I'm not familiar with the DACs you have suggested so won't comment) or pay for many years worth of online music services.
As always try to listen (ideally at home) before buying.
Annoyingly well reasoned In general big speakers need more room to breath.
You've got a speaker that's nearly 50cm deep and 30cm wide and even being front ported (I don't know if there is a rear port also) I doubt they will work well unless they are about 50cm from the back and rear walls.
So now you have (approx) each speaker that has the front 1m from the back wall and the inside edge nearly 80cm away from the side wall.
That leaves them really close together on your short wall or a long way down your room on the long wall.
There is no need (IMHO) for a speaker in a UK size living room to have a 10 inch bass unit, fine for huge US rooms, but not the UK.
If you want to use active speakers I think the SCM19A would be more than adequate if you want to stay with ATC.
There are others like the Dali Callisto and the Dynaudio Focus XD range (and no doubt more, but i've heard Dalis and Dynaudios and they are good products) with the Dynaudios you won't even need a DAC
Also if you have a look at the specs (which aren't always the best guide) the Dynaudio 60 XD will go down to 18Hz while the SCM50s are struggling at 50Hz ! (I think that may be wrong??)
This would also leave you more money to spend on a better DAC (I'm not familiar with the DACs you have suggested so won't comment) or pay for many years worth of online music services.
As always try to listen (ideally at home) before buying.
The problem is I just wanted someone to say it was a great idea 
But being serious, I like hifi but as you can tell with my question, I don't have a lot of experience with different products, so I will certainly investigate further the couple of options you mention.
Yeah my initial thought was that they're too much speaker for that size of room.
I've got mk1 SCM11's in a room of a similar size (slightly smaller) and I love them. Yes, a little bit more bass would be lovely and I've heard them paired with the C1 sub which sounded incredible. One day...
You won't go wrong with the SCM19A's, and you'll save a hell of a lot of money in the process!
I've got mk1 SCM11's in a room of a similar size (slightly smaller) and I love them. Yes, a little bit more bass would be lovely and I've heard them paired with the C1 sub which sounded incredible. One day...
You won't go wrong with the SCM19A's, and you'll save a hell of a lot of money in the process!
Disappointingly DACs continue to make a significant difference to the sound of Hi-Fi. I've no experience of the Dacs you mention but I can highly recommend the Chord Qutest. Runs best on a battery and gives you lots of modes of opertation to choose the sound you prefer on the day or by source. Bought mine to replace a DAC64 and was blown away by the improvement.
P700DEE said:
Disappointingly DACs continue to make a significant difference to the sound of Hi-Fi. I've no experience of the Dacs you mention but I can highly recommend the Chord Qutest. Runs best on a battery and gives you lots of modes of opertation to choose the sound you prefer on the day or by source. Bought mine to replace a DAC64 and was blown away by the improvement.
That's interesting - I've seen the Qutest gets some excellent reviews. It fits my perception that DAC technology has moved on quite some way since I last made a concerted effort to explore the options a few years ago.having tried a few dacs in my time i bought a RME ADI2FS at the start of the year and its fantastic
its gets stunning reviews and even gets a fantastic review on audio science review
i use mine with a Mac Mini running Jriver in to DIRAC live room correction to usb out to the DAC and its used as a pre amp into a Lyngdorf power amplifier and a pair of PMC floor standers and its by far the best system I have had
I would also say looking to room correction for the speakers running either on a preamp or source you are using it made a bigger difference then any one component
its gets stunning reviews and even gets a fantastic review on audio science review
i use mine with a Mac Mini running Jriver in to DIRAC live room correction to usb out to the DAC and its used as a pre amp into a Lyngdorf power amplifier and a pair of PMC floor standers and its by far the best system I have had
I would also say looking to room correction for the speakers running either on a preamp or source you are using it made a bigger difference then any one component
Alternative ATCs.......it's a pity that they don't offer this model in the domestic range but the 25A is just in the PRO range for now. I think an SCM25 ASLT would be ideal for many UK sized rooms.
Here's another option with a very similar footprint to the 25A, the Neumann brand bought out German PRO speaker company Klien and Hummel a few years ago. K&H produced the worlds first active studio monitors back in 1967.......they know their stuff. The measured performance is superb and it has lots of adjustability too. Bass extension is deeper than the SCM100 ASLT let alone the SCM50ASLT.
ATC25A £7800, ATC19A £4000, Neumann 310A <£3000.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh310...
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-a#description
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-a#technical-data
Here's another option with a very similar footprint to the 25A, the Neumann brand bought out German PRO speaker company Klien and Hummel a few years ago. K&H produced the worlds first active studio monitors back in 1967.......they know their stuff. The measured performance is superb and it has lots of adjustability too. Bass extension is deeper than the SCM100 ASLT let alone the SCM50ASLT.
ATC25A £7800, ATC19A £4000, Neumann 310A <£3000.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh310...
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-a#description
https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-310-a#technical-data
A potential answer that addresses the desire for actives and a new DAC and takes your room size into account might be the Dutch & Dutch 8c. I've thought about active ATC 50s for a while but once auditioning hifi is back on my radar vs staying safe and healthy I definitely plan to audition the 8c's first.
Thanks guys for some really interesting comments and suggestions.
Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Thanks guys for some really interesting comments and suggestions.
Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
They look more suitable sizewise for your room.Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
Make sure and try some others before buying as any speaker will generally sound good in isolation.
Whatever you decide,enjoy your music.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Thanks guys for some really interesting comments and suggestions.
Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
Good news...........let us know how you get on with them please; the 40A was on my radar for a while. The conclusions at the end of the following reviews are compelling.Just as a follow up, I did email ATC and one of their technical managers called me today - after discussing what I was looking for, and the room in a bit more detail, they said the 50's would probably work well but they have suggested instead the SCM40a. Similar active, three way design, and in the chap's opinion, probably the best value in terms of price/performance in the ATC range.
So that is probably what I am going to now try and arrange a demo for.
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/20...
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/20...
I’ve had 19A’s for a few years. Very good but always felt like they lacked output in my condo’s living room, one end of a living/dining room combo, common to many cheap designs in the States. That is, until I added a pair of subs. But from the beginning I had wondered whether the 40A would have been a better choice. This past summer, when a used pair became available at a good price, I asked a number of recent owners, including an employee of the U.S. importer, and with only one exception they suggested staying with the 19A or going up to the 50 ASLT (the one suggested the 20 ASLT, which is not imported in the U.S.).
The reason they gave, and I’ve found true, is the 40A’s flabby bass: the 19 and 50 use ATC’s tighter, faster super linear driver. In addition, a more recent review, which I can’t find off hand, described the 40A’s vaunted midrange as uninspiringly dry, needing warmer associated components to bring it to life. That was my initial impression too, leading to a change of dac and preamp tubes. So I’m still up in the air between the 19A and 40A, while watching for a pair of 50 towers. The one disadvantage of the latter is weight: 115 lbs vs 68 and 78 for the other models.
When it comes to dacs and preamps for the ATC’s, I’ve found the Lampi Atlantic TRP dac and the Supratek preamp line out of Australia — I have the Chardonnay — to be excellent lower cost choices, and good for tube rolling to find the desired sound
The reason they gave, and I’ve found true, is the 40A’s flabby bass: the 19 and 50 use ATC’s tighter, faster super linear driver. In addition, a more recent review, which I can’t find off hand, described the 40A’s vaunted midrange as uninspiringly dry, needing warmer associated components to bring it to life. That was my initial impression too, leading to a change of dac and preamp tubes. So I’m still up in the air between the 19A and 40A, while watching for a pair of 50 towers. The one disadvantage of the latter is weight: 115 lbs vs 68 and 78 for the other models.
When it comes to dacs and preamps for the ATC’s, I’ve found the Lampi Atlantic TRP dac and the Supratek preamp line out of Australia — I have the Chardonnay — to be excellent lower cost choices, and good for tube rolling to find the desired sound
Edited by highstream on Monday 4th October 13:45
I'm a big ATC fan and run a 5.1 set-up based on the 'Entry' series. This the previous generation of SCM40, C3C and SCM11.
If I were to replace it, I would certainly look into going active combined with room correction / DSP. Certainly in a room your size room correction could bring a lot of benefit. For the budget of active SCM50's the Dutch & Dutch 8c are getting rave reviews. Even although they are not cheap, many consider them good value for money as they seem to be competing to models costing 2 - 3 x times the price. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2020-edition-loudspeakers). Also they are designed to work close to a wall (10 cm) so wouldn't intrude too much into the room.
Keith at Purite Audio would be the man in the UK to contact for these speakers: https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/ I believe he used to be ATC dealer but now specialises in the new breed of active / DSP speakers.
For a room your size the Buchardt A500 could be a good option. They bring a lot of the good things of the Dutch & Dutch 8c at a significant lower budget of less than 4.000 Euro. (https://buchardtaudio.com/). They sell direct from the manufacturer and have a 45 day home trial offer. Be aware that there seem to be some bugs especially using the wireless hub.
For ATC Rick at Musicraft in Derby (https://www.musicraft.co.uk/) is worth a call, he often has some ex-demo gear for sale at attractive discounts.
Have fun on your audio journey!
If I were to replace it, I would certainly look into going active combined with room correction / DSP. Certainly in a room your size room correction could bring a lot of benefit. For the budget of active SCM50's the Dutch & Dutch 8c are getting rave reviews. Even although they are not cheap, many consider them good value for money as they seem to be competing to models costing 2 - 3 x times the price. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2020-edition-loudspeakers). Also they are designed to work close to a wall (10 cm) so wouldn't intrude too much into the room.
Keith at Purite Audio would be the man in the UK to contact for these speakers: https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/ I believe he used to be ATC dealer but now specialises in the new breed of active / DSP speakers.
For a room your size the Buchardt A500 could be a good option. They bring a lot of the good things of the Dutch & Dutch 8c at a significant lower budget of less than 4.000 Euro. (https://buchardtaudio.com/). They sell direct from the manufacturer and have a 45 day home trial offer. Be aware that there seem to be some bugs especially using the wireless hub.
For ATC Rick at Musicraft in Derby (https://www.musicraft.co.uk/) is worth a call, he often has some ex-demo gear for sale at attractive discounts.
Have fun on your audio journey!
Edited by FindingMenno on Tuesday 5th October 13:20
Interim update. I ordered the ATC speakers, and they have now arrived. I went with the active ATC's (SCM40a).
I have also ordered the following:
Denafrips Hermes (DDC)
Denafrips Pontus II (DAC)
Denafrips Athena (pre-amp)
So I don't have the full setup yet - the other bits and cables etc I've ordered should arrive in a couple of weeks I think. So far, the ATC's sound very good - although not yet brilliant - but I think that is mostly due to my current source and preamp.
Will update once I get the full setup.
I have also ordered the following:
Denafrips Hermes (DDC)
Denafrips Pontus II (DAC)
Denafrips Athena (pre-amp)
So I don't have the full setup yet - the other bits and cables etc I've ordered should arrive in a couple of weeks I think. So far, the ATC's sound very good - although not yet brilliant - but I think that is mostly due to my current source and preamp.
Will update once I get the full setup.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Interim update. I ordered the ATC speakers, and they have now arrived. I went with the active ATC's (SCM40a).
I have also ordered the following:
Denafrips Hermes (DDC)
Denafrips Pontus II (DAC)
Denafrips Athena (pre-amp)
So I don't have the full setup yet - the other bits and cables etc I've ordered should arrive in a couple of weeks I think. So far, the ATC's sound good - although not yet brilliant - but I think that is mostly due to my current source and preamp.
Will update once I get the full setup.
I wouldn't worry about them not sounding good for a while yet.I have also ordered the following:
Denafrips Hermes (DDC)
Denafrips Pontus II (DAC)
Denafrips Athena (pre-amp)
So I don't have the full setup yet - the other bits and cables etc I've ordered should arrive in a couple of weeks I think. So far, the ATC's sound good - although not yet brilliant - but I think that is mostly due to my current source and preamp.
Will update once I get the full setup.
Good speakers will take a while to run in.
I would expect it to take about a month of regular use for them to start sounding good and they will probably keep getting better for about a year.
(My Dynaudio C2s were still getting better 18 months after i got them).
Edited by tonyg58 on Friday 4th February 23:21
I'm interested in active ATCs so I'd be interested in any feedback from the OP on how he got on.
I've been given a Raspberry Pi as a present which has a fairly high end DAC chip attached to it, and I would like to use my hard disk of iTunes music recorded in Apple lossless format as the source.
Living room is not that large, in keeping with UK apartments. I would love an expensive set of speakers and could set aside the money, but am afraid of overkill so am still just forming opinions, slowly
I've been given a Raspberry Pi as a present which has a fairly high end DAC chip attached to it, and I would like to use my hard disk of iTunes music recorded in Apple lossless format as the source.
Living room is not that large, in keeping with UK apartments. I would love an expensive set of speakers and could set aside the money, but am afraid of overkill so am still just forming opinions, slowly
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