More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t
Discussion
Custod, congratulations on another information free post.
daveydave7 said:
I'm just wondering if one of you is into Apple products by any chance ? 
Do you mean iTunes etc? I use Apple + iTunes to stream my digital music, but any streaming system works fine as long as you feed it into a decent DAC, ideally via optical cable to isolate it a bit better.The valve vs transistor argument is one that has long raged in the guitar amp world. Transistors may be technically superior but people prefer valve (generally). We now see transistor amps with simulated/modelled valve characteristics. Best of both worlds or fudge? It works and sounds good and the top simulations
I don't think anyone can argue that if you can detect a small difference you may be able to hear it. I think the argument is that if there is no measurable difference how are you hearing a difference? Was there not an experiment that showed people preferred the sound of heavy kit despite it being the same electronics in the box?
I don't think anyone can argue that if you can detect a small difference you may be able to hear it. I think the argument is that if there is no measurable difference how are you hearing a difference? Was there not an experiment that showed people preferred the sound of heavy kit despite it being the same electronics in the box?
Globs said:
Do you mean iTunes etc? I use Apple + iTunes to stream my digital music, but any streaming system works fine as long as you feed it into a decent DAC, ideally via optical cable to isolate it a bit better.
Why do people least equipped to provide advice feel the need to provide it - empty vessels I guess 
If anyone wants GOOD advice on the best solutions for computer based audio you can do a lot worse than head over here - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/, then you can learn the benefits of async USB over optical, galvanic isolation, how iTunes can be optimised and better third party software solutions etc..
[quote=Bullett]The valve vs transistor argument is one that has long raged in the guitar amp world. Transistors may be technically superior but people prefer valve (generally). We now see transistor amps with simulated/modelled valve characteristics. Best of both worlds or fudge? It works and sounds good and the top simulations
But this is just an element of a wider debate - that to many ears what is technically accurate isn't necessarily what is most musically satisfying. Adding coloration/distortion in the majority of scenarios disguises a multitude of sins, both in lower budget components and poor quality recordings. A truly accurate system, in a good acoustic environment with a good recording is the ultimate but that isn't what we have most of the time.
As an example, my main system CAN sound magical, but with a poor recording it will be brutal. However, stick the same track in the family room, where I have a very warm sounding Arcam/Ruark system and it sounds much "better" to most people, very coloured to my ears, but whenever we have guests over they always love that "sound", prominent mid bass, slightly forward mid band and slightly recessed treble - it's easy on the ear. Which is why Arcam amps are so popular in mid-fi setups, as their signature warm and dark house sound works well in a wide variety of modern systems.
But this is just an element of a wider debate - that to many ears what is technically accurate isn't necessarily what is most musically satisfying. Adding coloration/distortion in the majority of scenarios disguises a multitude of sins, both in lower budget components and poor quality recordings. A truly accurate system, in a good acoustic environment with a good recording is the ultimate but that isn't what we have most of the time.
As an example, my main system CAN sound magical, but with a poor recording it will be brutal. However, stick the same track in the family room, where I have a very warm sounding Arcam/Ruark system and it sounds much "better" to most people, very coloured to my ears, but whenever we have guests over they always love that "sound", prominent mid bass, slightly forward mid band and slightly recessed treble - it's easy on the ear. Which is why Arcam amps are so popular in mid-fi setups, as their signature warm and dark house sound works well in a wide variety of modern systems.
StuH said:
Globs said:
Do you mean iTunes etc? I use Apple + iTunes to stream my digital music, but any streaming system works fine as long as you feed it into a decent DAC, ideally via optical cable to isolate it a bit better.
Why do people least equipped to provide advice feel the need to provide it - empty vessels I guess None of your posts contain any correct information, just insults and bluster, symptoms of that empty vessel that you know so well. BTW I was answering a question as asked - without launching into abuse - you should try it sometime, not everything has to be a pissing contest.
So how can telling someone how I stream music with an Apple be constituted as advice? It's not advice, it's how I do it, it's a fact, so you are wrong, again. Additionally how is streaming digital from an Apple any different to streaming it from anywhere else?
Are you so stupid to think that streaming digital audio information in a room/house leads to subtle changes in the musical character?? Are you one of those retards that thinks that the brand and length of optical cable affects the clarity of the sound? And yes, I have listened, and no, they don't have any effect, not scientifically, not logically and not audibly.
Can you even understand the thread title? Did the transmission of this post from my PC to yours colour the words and reduced their clarity? Because that's exactly what you are claiming for audio.
Globs said:
<snip>
Can you even understand the thread title? Did the transmission of this post from my PC to yours colour the words and reduced their clarity? Because that's exactly what you are claiming for audio.
Globs, I seem to have lost a few bits and then gained some.Can you even understand the thread title? Did the transmission of this post from my PC to yours colour the words and reduced their clarity? Because that's exactly what you are claiming for audio.
My digits are bust!!! (screenshot below)
Yeah Tony, maybe you are using regular Cat5/5e/6 cable for your web browsing??
I bet you feel foolish now like I did when using cheap Misco cable, an easy mistake for beginners to the digital domain, you need this stuff:
Meicord Ethernet Cable
which should clean up the page considerable, without reducing the vibrance of the PH logo:
I'm just off now to buy a pure silver USB cable to improve the photos stored in my digital camera, looking forward to that!
I bet you feel foolish now like I did when using cheap Misco cable, an easy mistake for beginners to the digital domain, you need this stuff:
Meicord Ethernet Cable
which should clean up the page considerable, without reducing the vibrance of the PH logo:
HiFiCritic said:
Hi Fi Critic have also reviewed the Meicord Opals, Martin Colloms said about the cables "no one needed to strain thier ears to hear what benefit the cable brought. It delivered unmistakable improvements in clarity, image depth, all round definition and dynamics".
It's all about image depth, unmistakable improvements in clarity and revelatory levels of detail on the net I'm just off now to buy a pure silver USB cable to improve the photos stored in my digital camera, looking forward to that!
The problem IMO is the following Custodian:
We are all music lovers here and also gear lovers (OK that sounds weird) not just for the creative aspect but also the technical aspect. It interests us all and we're all (including yourself) passionate about it.
The problem arises when someone makes what are considered unreasonable, unusual or illogical claims regarding the performance of certain equipment or any proposed improvements.
At this point a group of passionately interested folk cannot help but comment and ask for clarification of these claims.
This is not unreasonable of them considering the context.
Imagine if you will someone on the car forums claiming that by adding a "schmeelbleek" to their engine they can get X amount of improvement in acceleration (just an example!)
Anyone who's into cars would surely call that person on it and ask for an explanation and they would be reasonable to do so.
This is why I believe saying "as long as X enjoys his system and isn't hurting anyone else it doesn't matter" is not good enough for those interested parties listening. The claim must be explained.
This doesn't take anything away from a beautiful system such as yours which must, let's be honest, sound amazing and be awe inspiring to behold.
We are all music lovers here and also gear lovers (OK that sounds weird) not just for the creative aspect but also the technical aspect. It interests us all and we're all (including yourself) passionate about it.
The problem arises when someone makes what are considered unreasonable, unusual or illogical claims regarding the performance of certain equipment or any proposed improvements.
At this point a group of passionately interested folk cannot help but comment and ask for clarification of these claims.
This is not unreasonable of them considering the context.
Imagine if you will someone on the car forums claiming that by adding a "schmeelbleek" to their engine they can get X amount of improvement in acceleration (just an example!)
Anyone who's into cars would surely call that person on it and ask for an explanation and they would be reasonable to do so.
This is why I believe saying "as long as X enjoys his system and isn't hurting anyone else it doesn't matter" is not good enough for those interested parties listening. The claim must be explained.
This doesn't take anything away from a beautiful system such as yours which must, let's be honest, sound amazing and be awe inspiring to behold.
Well I think you're suspicions are well founded and that for knowledgeable people there is a point at which a claim can just be considered absurd and no attempt would be made or needed to ask for proof.
The "schmeelbleek" engine bracket (anyone got a link?) would fall into this category and I would say that Liquid Air Module would be another.
The "schmeelbleek" engine bracket (anyone got a link?) would fall into this category and I would say that Liquid Air Module would be another.
Then there is the group of add-ons we have been talking about since, cables, DACs(non-rubbish), "normal" power conditioners and all those digital gubbins etc that really are needing an explanation and scientific proof IMO.
For audio fanatics I think it very reasonable to ask for such proof and done in such a way as to avoid the placebo effect which I believe is at the heart of all the disagreement here.
For audio fanatics I think it very reasonable to ask for such proof and done in such a way as to avoid the placebo effect which I believe is at the heart of all the disagreement here.
Globs said:
StuH said:
Globs said:
Do you mean iTunes etc? I use Apple + iTunes to stream my digital music, but any streaming system works fine as long as you feed it into a decent DAC, ideally via optical cable to isolate it a bit better.
Why do people least equipped to provide advice feel the need to provide it - empty vessels I guess None of your posts contain any correct information, just insults and bluster, symptoms of that empty vessel that you know so well. BTW I was answering a question as asked - without launching into abuse - you should try it sometime, not everything has to be a pissing contest.
So how can telling someone how I stream music with an Apple be constituted as advice? It's not advice, it's how I do it, it's a fact, so you are wrong, again. Additionally how is streaming digital from an Apple any different to streaming it from anywhere else?
Are you so stupid to think that streaming digital audio information in a room/house leads to subtle changes in the musical character?? Are you one of those retards that thinks that the brand and length of optical cable affects the clarity of the sound? And yes, I have listened, and no, they don't have any effect, not scientifically, not logically and not audibly.
Can you even understand the thread title? Did the transmission of this post from my PC to yours colour the words and reduced their clarity? Because that's exactly what you are claiming for audio.
- why not spend your time learning about async USB, galvanic isolation, jitter, the impact your software volume control is having on the digital output of your MAC, any any number of other issues you are unaware off, rather than writing offensive, and largely incoherent rants, and we can have a more productive discussion at a later date - Ideally in Custodian's new custom room with a few Jaffa Cakes and a nice cup of tea...............oh and perhaps some humble pie for the "it's just ones and zeros" brigade 
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff