Moving to Singa and finding a home - a good article.
Discussion
Just seen this article on the Straits Times that makes for good reading and may be usefull for the many pistonheaders that i hear are hankering after moving to Singapore (or becoming "expat" elsewhere around the globe)
The article very much mirrors what i tend to tell other people coming out here....
anyway ....
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Propert...
The article very much mirrors what i tend to tell other people coming out here....
anyway ....
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Propert...
Straits Times said:
Trapped in a gilded condo
By Liam O'Brian
Any newly arrived expat in Singapore invariably finds himself corralled into living in a condo.
The usual chain of events: You move into short-term serviced accommodation, phone a property agent to help you find longer-term lodgings, and usually within a month or so are settled into a suitable home.
The downside to this - which dawned on me pretty soon after we moved into our present flat - is that property agents have a one-word vocabulary when it comes to expats.
Conduct one of those word association games with them, and the word 'expat' would most probably elicit a response of 'condo'.
All the prospective properties they usher you to are expensive condos in central areas - something not particularly surprising, given that agents earn a commission based on the size of the rent. And because you are new to Singapore, you think that this is where every newcomer lives and that condo living is a bit of a fait accompli.
No mention is made of landed properties in less expensive areas, or HDB rentals.
If you were to ask a property agent about such types of accommodation, you would be met with a blank stare. You would be taking the agent into alien territory, prompting him or her to engage in all sorts of patter to steer you back to the script.
No doubt the agents' car satellite navigation systems are able to guide you from one condo to another in record time - but not to non-expat neighbourhoods.
And not only does an expat have 'condo', metaphorically, stamped on his forehead but also the agent would have selected for you condos that are inhabited mostly by people like you.
They will tell you that this condo is predominantly Indian, that one Caucasian, and so on, the hint being that you should go for one that fits your profile.
So you move in, and once the initial novelty of living in a new place has worn off, you realise that the condo is stuffed to the gills with expats. It dawns on you that you are destined to spend the next two years with people broadly similar to you. They are all white-collar workers from Australia, New Zealand, North America or Europe.
There is not a local in sight.
Foreigners who, like me, like to take in the local culture and people when resident in another country will be in for a surprise if they spend much of their time within the gated confines of their lush and well-appointed condo.
If I close my eyes while I sit on the balcony at home, I could just as well be located in an upscale suburb of Sydney, Wellington or Washington, rather than in Tanjong Rhu Road in the East Coast.
The accents of Australians, Kiwis and Americans - plus those of Filipino maids glued to their prized mobile phones - form much of the background hubbub, rather than Hokkien or Singapore English.
This is a pity, because expats can spend years here and not really venture beyond their cultural comfort zone.
This may particularly be the case for housewives left marooned in their mono-culture condos for much of the year.
Sure, they might go out to restaurants and theatres with their friends, but they may never really speak in any significant way to a true local. They will go to the zoo - many times - as well as Sentosa, take a few weekend jaunts to neighbouring countries, play golf, and do lots of shopping.
Then their time here will come to an end, and they will go back to wherever they came from.
Will they really have come to understand Singapore? Will they have any insight into the culture of this place?
They will certainly have no idea of the various uses of 'lah', and will have little familiarity with the Yoda-like ability of some Singaporeans to turn what seem like statements into questions by ending them with 'Is it?'
It is a bit like stating the obvious to say that expats do not mix much with locals.
I know that the Government sets ethnic quotas for HDB blocks, so that every block of flats represents in a small way the multicultural mix of Singapore.
What about something similar for condos?
By Liam O'Brian
Any newly arrived expat in Singapore invariably finds himself corralled into living in a condo.
The usual chain of events: You move into short-term serviced accommodation, phone a property agent to help you find longer-term lodgings, and usually within a month or so are settled into a suitable home.
The downside to this - which dawned on me pretty soon after we moved into our present flat - is that property agents have a one-word vocabulary when it comes to expats.
Conduct one of those word association games with them, and the word 'expat' would most probably elicit a response of 'condo'.
All the prospective properties they usher you to are expensive condos in central areas - something not particularly surprising, given that agents earn a commission based on the size of the rent. And because you are new to Singapore, you think that this is where every newcomer lives and that condo living is a bit of a fait accompli.
No mention is made of landed properties in less expensive areas, or HDB rentals.
If you were to ask a property agent about such types of accommodation, you would be met with a blank stare. You would be taking the agent into alien territory, prompting him or her to engage in all sorts of patter to steer you back to the script.
No doubt the agents' car satellite navigation systems are able to guide you from one condo to another in record time - but not to non-expat neighbourhoods.
And not only does an expat have 'condo', metaphorically, stamped on his forehead but also the agent would have selected for you condos that are inhabited mostly by people like you.
They will tell you that this condo is predominantly Indian, that one Caucasian, and so on, the hint being that you should go for one that fits your profile.
So you move in, and once the initial novelty of living in a new place has worn off, you realise that the condo is stuffed to the gills with expats. It dawns on you that you are destined to spend the next two years with people broadly similar to you. They are all white-collar workers from Australia, New Zealand, North America or Europe.
There is not a local in sight.
Foreigners who, like me, like to take in the local culture and people when resident in another country will be in for a surprise if they spend much of their time within the gated confines of their lush and well-appointed condo.
If I close my eyes while I sit on the balcony at home, I could just as well be located in an upscale suburb of Sydney, Wellington or Washington, rather than in Tanjong Rhu Road in the East Coast.
The accents of Australians, Kiwis and Americans - plus those of Filipino maids glued to their prized mobile phones - form much of the background hubbub, rather than Hokkien or Singapore English.
This is a pity, because expats can spend years here and not really venture beyond their cultural comfort zone.
This may particularly be the case for housewives left marooned in their mono-culture condos for much of the year.
Sure, they might go out to restaurants and theatres with their friends, but they may never really speak in any significant way to a true local. They will go to the zoo - many times - as well as Sentosa, take a few weekend jaunts to neighbouring countries, play golf, and do lots of shopping.
Then their time here will come to an end, and they will go back to wherever they came from.
Will they really have come to understand Singapore? Will they have any insight into the culture of this place?
They will certainly have no idea of the various uses of 'lah', and will have little familiarity with the Yoda-like ability of some Singaporeans to turn what seem like statements into questions by ending them with 'Is it?'
It is a bit like stating the obvious to say that expats do not mix much with locals.
I know that the Government sets ethnic quotas for HDB blocks, so that every block of flats represents in a small way the multicultural mix of Singapore.
What about something similar for condos?
Similar to my experience of Hong Kong.
Arrived there begining of '96, was suggested by most people to live in either mid-levels, Disco Bay or places like Tung Chung, however I settled for Yung Shue Wan on Lamma Island......... most of the locals and a few expats thought it was the hippy/druggy expat hang out. To a small degree it was, but in reality was a pretty cool place to live with no cars and very friendly locals. Good atmosphere for the family when they arrived.
Spent 7 odd years there until I moved to Wan Chai, corner of Hennessey Road and Luard Road, bang in the middle of all the bars. But thats another story.
Moral of the main story, unless your somewhere really unsafe, mix it up with the locals.
Arrived there begining of '96, was suggested by most people to live in either mid-levels, Disco Bay or places like Tung Chung, however I settled for Yung Shue Wan on Lamma Island......... most of the locals and a few expats thought it was the hippy/druggy expat hang out. To a small degree it was, but in reality was a pretty cool place to live with no cars and very friendly locals. Good atmosphere for the family when they arrived.
Spent 7 odd years there until I moved to Wan Chai, corner of Hennessey Road and Luard Road, bang in the middle of all the bars. But thats another story.
Moral of the main story, unless your somewhere really unsafe, mix it up with the locals.
Afternoon chaps! (accounting for the time difference...)
I just read the above ...
Wanchaiwarrior: I have friends who have lived on Lamma for some years...
Apologies in advance for the long post.
I have a possibility of moving to Singa in the not too distant future. I've visited Singa on business about 3 years ago and managed to wangle 3 extra days to myself there, so it's not entirely uncommon to me.
Like most PHers I'm British, and if I recall another post correctly, my home town isn't too far away from where Bing O used to live?
I moved from sunny Bournemouth about 12 years ago to Luxembourg. In my time here I've married and now have girls aged 8 & 9 who go to local schools, so speak English (at home), Luxembourgish (fluently), German (fluently) and French ("assez bien").
My current employer recently set-up a sizeable office in Singapore, and have had such problems hiring people locally (they're offering very low salaries!) that a couple of people will be moved from Lux to Singa on the equivalent of their € salaries.
I don't want to end up in an expat condo necessarily, although after years of living in the Luxembourg countryside in a predominantly Portuguese occupied town (!), having English spoken around us would make a probably welcome change.
I'm wondering what kind of deal I should try and get from my employer, although I have no idea what kind of moving budget there will be, particularly if I want my children to go to a good school - which may actually be German speaking rather than English, so fee paying? Also, are any of you guys members of local sports clubs, etc., which you use for their social scene, or is that more work-based?
Taking John's thread above into consideration, are there perhaps some real estate agent recommendations you could give me so I can look at potential prices?
Obviously this is all "maybe" stuff at the moment, but I'd greatly appreciate some pointers from you as locals.
Thanks all - and sorry again for the long post ... I'm more concerned about my wife and children in such a move as pretty much all offices worldwide are the same!
I just read the above ...
Wanchaiwarrior: I have friends who have lived on Lamma for some years...
Apologies in advance for the long post.
I have a possibility of moving to Singa in the not too distant future. I've visited Singa on business about 3 years ago and managed to wangle 3 extra days to myself there, so it's not entirely uncommon to me.
Like most PHers I'm British, and if I recall another post correctly, my home town isn't too far away from where Bing O used to live?
I moved from sunny Bournemouth about 12 years ago to Luxembourg. In my time here I've married and now have girls aged 8 & 9 who go to local schools, so speak English (at home), Luxembourgish (fluently), German (fluently) and French ("assez bien").
My current employer recently set-up a sizeable office in Singapore, and have had such problems hiring people locally (they're offering very low salaries!) that a couple of people will be moved from Lux to Singa on the equivalent of their € salaries.
I don't want to end up in an expat condo necessarily, although after years of living in the Luxembourg countryside in a predominantly Portuguese occupied town (!), having English spoken around us would make a probably welcome change.
I'm wondering what kind of deal I should try and get from my employer, although I have no idea what kind of moving budget there will be, particularly if I want my children to go to a good school - which may actually be German speaking rather than English, so fee paying? Also, are any of you guys members of local sports clubs, etc., which you use for their social scene, or is that more work-based?
Taking John's thread above into consideration, are there perhaps some real estate agent recommendations you could give me so I can look at potential prices?
Obviously this is all "maybe" stuff at the moment, but I'd greatly appreciate some pointers from you as locals.
Thanks all - and sorry again for the long post ... I'm more concerned about my wife and children in such a move as pretty much all offices worldwide are the same!
Edited by 5potTurbo on Tuesday 31st August 09:38
Edited by 5potTurbo on Tuesday 31st August 09:39
I can certainly recomend a few estate agents that can show you some places.
Have a look at www.singaporeexpat.com , they have a good bit on all the condo's etc in singapore with pictures and explanations.
there is german, dutch and french international schools here, expect to pay $SG20 - 30k a year i believe based on parents i know that grumble at the prices.
Plenty of people are members of clubs for sports facilities too.
American, Tanglin, British, Beach and Dutch clubs all have very good sports facilities with courts for tennis, squash etc.
Packages seem to be becoming rarer and people tend to get all in cash payments these days but some of teh more recent arrivals will be able to give more detail there.
Have a look at www.singaporeexpat.com , they have a good bit on all the condo's etc in singapore with pictures and explanations.
there is german, dutch and french international schools here, expect to pay $SG20 - 30k a year i believe based on parents i know that grumble at the prices.
Plenty of people are members of clubs for sports facilities too.
American, Tanglin, British, Beach and Dutch clubs all have very good sports facilities with courts for tennis, squash etc.
Packages seem to be becoming rarer and people tend to get all in cash payments these days but some of teh more recent arrivals will be able to give more detail there.
My company advised that they would move me to Singapore on the same salary as I have now in Lux, but with an additional insurance to cover the difference between Social Security systems for the 1st 3 years (reimbursement of doctore/medical expenses, etc.). So that'll be a "no, thanks" from me, as I'd be much worse off financially.
5potTurbo said:
My company advised that they would move me to Singapore on the same salary as I have now in Lux, but with an additional insurance to cover the difference between Social Security systems for the 1st 3 years (reimbursement of doctore/medical expenses, etc.). So that'll be a "no, thanks" from me, as I'd be much worse off financially.
alot of companies are doing this these days, the theory is that the tax benefits and the experiance will be enough to make tallent move halfway around the world. I assume this article will also reflect KL as well?
I am scottish, was borne to haggle and be tight. Although i got to say I had a similar experience in London and Delhi. As long as well paid working tourists come in this will always be an issue.
in response can anyopne recommend an agent in KL?
I am scottish, was borne to haggle and be tight. Although i got to say I had a similar experience in London and Delhi. As long as well paid working tourists come in this will always be an issue.
in response can anyopne recommend an agent in KL?
Gassing Station | Asia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff