Singapore - anyone know what's it like to live there?
Discussion
Hi all
I've been approached about a job in Singapore which would mean me, my wife and eight year old girl moving out there. Can anyone tell me what the quality of life's like there in terms of culture, business, schools etc.? As a point of comparison we currently live in London, Zone 2 and enjoy the city life, and would probably live pretty close in to the town there too.
Cheers.
I've been approached about a job in Singapore which would mean me, my wife and eight year old girl moving out there. Can anyone tell me what the quality of life's like there in terms of culture, business, schools etc.? As a point of comparison we currently live in London, Zone 2 and enjoy the city life, and would probably live pretty close in to the town there too.
Cheers.
crystalmethod said:
Hi all
I've been approached about a job in Singapore which would mean me, my wife and eight year old girl moving out there. Can anyone tell me what the quality of life's like there in terms of culture, business, schools etc.? As a point of comparison we currently live in London, Zone 2 and enjoy the city life, and would probably live pretty close in to the town there too.
Cheers.
You'll have the whole of the News forum creaming themselves over what a paradise it is shortly. I've been approached about a job in Singapore which would mean me, my wife and eight year old girl moving out there. Can anyone tell me what the quality of life's like there in terms of culture, business, schools etc.? As a point of comparison we currently live in London, Zone 2 and enjoy the city life, and would probably live pretty close in to the town there too.
Cheers.
If you'd like to live in the kind of country the Daily Mail think this should be, you'll love it. A passion for shopping would help too, as well as a generally uncritical attitude towards civil liberties and free speech. You won't want to be liking any 'alternative' culture, either.
Some folks absolutely love the place. Depends what kind of person you are, and what you enjoy doing. For me, even without the unpleasantness of living in a one party state, the climate is a killer. If you can cope with massive humidity and heat then you're off to a good start...
Some folks absolutely love the place. Depends what kind of person you are, and what you enjoy doing. For me, even without the unpleasantness of living in a one party state, the climate is a killer. If you can cope with massive humidity and heat then you're off to a good start...
Owning a car is crippling. Cars cost up to twice as much, then you have to have a licence to own one, and a licence to drive one (uk should be ok), the tax on an older car (3 years old and up) is so high as to make anything over three years old pointless. A lot of the roads are toll roads, taken care of by a magic box on the dash with a card in which needs to be topped up, though it can also be used to pay for parking meters too.
Other than that, singapore is a fantastic place, some things are horribly expensive, some are dirt cheep (not unlike London) but the climate is superb, there's some great beaches, and the schools are supposed to be pretty damn good too
Other than that, singapore is a fantastic place, some things are horribly expensive, some are dirt cheep (not unlike London) but the climate is superb, there's some great beaches, and the schools are supposed to be pretty damn good too
My girlfriend had the exact same experience (as the 8 year old girl) and asks what the company would be providing? Her dad's company paid for a lovely apartment etc and for her to go to quite a good international school with a lot of ex-pats which would be mental expensive otherwise.
If you have any specific questions, just ask
If you have any specific questions, just ask
Moving out for how long? and who pays for accommodation?
A Hungarian friend of mine is living there at present, but he's coming back to NZ at Christmas - 18 months is enough for him.
Recommended for perhaps 2 or 3 years - after that I would suggest it would get a bit tedious.
Don't forget it's hot all year - air con is required so you can sleep.
A Hungarian friend of mine is living there at present, but he's coming back to NZ at Christmas - 18 months is enough for him.
Recommended for perhaps 2 or 3 years - after that I would suggest it would get a bit tedious.
Don't forget it's hot all year - air con is required so you can sleep.
I doubt anyone in Singapore would describe driving as an enjoyable indulgence! It's a pretty small island & you can get to the only way off it in 25 minutes or so.
Singapore has something called a Certificate of Entitlement, which is basically a regular lottery the car dealers enter to be allowed to sell a car (Google it for a better description). The latest CoE for a 1600cc car is SGD56000 or £28000 (I'll use 2:1 as the rate, although it's a little lower than that). You're looking at £55k for a Toyota Corolla! A Honda Accord could be £85k. I've no idea what the other costs are like insurance. Locals get 10 year loans to enable them to afford a car.
Other things to bear in mind:
Housing. You'll be renting & rents can increase by huge amounts every year. Ensure these increases are covered by your contract or you'll be dropping in quality every time you move.
Medical insurance for the whole family. Lots of it.
A number of return air tickets per year. It's a 13 hour flight so I only do it business class.
Car. See above.
Schooling. Expensive & with waiting lists at the best schools. Get some costs & ensure these & any increases are covered. Basically you're going to have put your child through private education, with all the attendant costs.
Food can be cheap if you eat local or expensive if you miss your British favourites.
It's an expensive place with inflation running at 5-6%. Factor this into annual rises.
Check what you are getting paid in, UK£ or SGD. While getting paid in SGD means your income while you are there is stable it could mean you don't bring back as much as you had hoped if the SGD continues to strengthen against the £. It used to be quite stable against the US$ but recent events have brought that into doubt. When I first went to Singapore the rate was 3.2/£. Now it's 1.94.
In general watch out for inflation making an initially good deal untenable. I've known people have to quit after three years of increases in rent, school fees & living costs as it just wasn't viable.
It's warm & humid, but not as bad as many countries. It's certainly not as hot as Dubai for instance.
It's a small island & many expats go a bit stir crazy after a few years. There's lots of counties nearby to visit to ease the boredom.
It's very safe. You won't have to worry about your wife & daughter.
You'll probably have/need a maid. the cost needs to be factored in, although I've no idea what it would be. Not a massive amount, although you are responsible for her & will be fined if she disappears. I think you are no longer responsible if she gets pregnant, although you used to be which is why some employers don't give them a day off.
Culture is improving but it's nothing like London, but then few places are.
It's a one party state, although the ruling party had a bit of a shock in the last election. You're just there to earn money, not criticize the way the place is run.
If you can make the numbers add up, I'd do it like a shot.
Singapore has something called a Certificate of Entitlement, which is basically a regular lottery the car dealers enter to be allowed to sell a car (Google it for a better description). The latest CoE for a 1600cc car is SGD56000 or £28000 (I'll use 2:1 as the rate, although it's a little lower than that). You're looking at £55k for a Toyota Corolla! A Honda Accord could be £85k. I've no idea what the other costs are like insurance. Locals get 10 year loans to enable them to afford a car.
Other things to bear in mind:
Housing. You'll be renting & rents can increase by huge amounts every year. Ensure these increases are covered by your contract or you'll be dropping in quality every time you move.
Medical insurance for the whole family. Lots of it.
A number of return air tickets per year. It's a 13 hour flight so I only do it business class.
Car. See above.
Schooling. Expensive & with waiting lists at the best schools. Get some costs & ensure these & any increases are covered. Basically you're going to have put your child through private education, with all the attendant costs.
Food can be cheap if you eat local or expensive if you miss your British favourites.
It's an expensive place with inflation running at 5-6%. Factor this into annual rises.
Check what you are getting paid in, UK£ or SGD. While getting paid in SGD means your income while you are there is stable it could mean you don't bring back as much as you had hoped if the SGD continues to strengthen against the £. It used to be quite stable against the US$ but recent events have brought that into doubt. When I first went to Singapore the rate was 3.2/£. Now it's 1.94.
In general watch out for inflation making an initially good deal untenable. I've known people have to quit after three years of increases in rent, school fees & living costs as it just wasn't viable.
It's warm & humid, but not as bad as many countries. It's certainly not as hot as Dubai for instance.
It's a small island & many expats go a bit stir crazy after a few years. There's lots of counties nearby to visit to ease the boredom.
It's very safe. You won't have to worry about your wife & daughter.
You'll probably have/need a maid. the cost needs to be factored in, although I've no idea what it would be. Not a massive amount, although you are responsible for her & will be fined if she disappears. I think you are no longer responsible if she gets pregnant, although you used to be which is why some employers don't give them a day off.
Culture is improving but it's nothing like London, but then few places are.
It's a one party state, although the ruling party had a bit of a shock in the last election. You're just there to earn money, not criticize the way the place is run.
If you can make the numbers add up, I'd do it like a shot.
Interesting there are no comments from people who live there, come on John,
Yes you need the money to pay for , an apartment, car, school and medical, either in the pay, or the company pay direct, you can get all to a very high quality. Petrol is about a pound a liter, and John has posted several things here on how to cut the cost of cars.
Yes its like the UK should be, your wife and child can walk the street at night there are no drugs sold in schools, hospitals (private) treat you when you are ill. If you intend to break laws dont go there, but the police/state don't hastle you, there is a lot of truth in the saying 'singapore is afine state'.
Cost wise it is like all expat postings, get your deal right before you get on the plane.
Yes you need the money to pay for , an apartment, car, school and medical, either in the pay, or the company pay direct, you can get all to a very high quality. Petrol is about a pound a liter, and John has posted several things here on how to cut the cost of cars.
Yes its like the UK should be, your wife and child can walk the street at night there are no drugs sold in schools, hospitals (private) treat you when you are ill. If you intend to break laws dont go there, but the police/state don't hastle you, there is a lot of truth in the saying 'singapore is afine state'.
Cost wise it is like all expat postings, get your deal right before you get on the plane.
sorry, been busy enjoying the lifestyle (weekend pissup in Phuket with another Pistonheader!!!)
here are a few threads i have posted on about living in Singa
cost of motoring
COE Cars explained
a good article on finding housing in Singa
a general living in singa questions thread
some stuff on income, and cars again
health insurance
in summary - Singapore will seem bloody expensive as the GBP is worth about teh same as a Zimbabwean dollar!! (current exchange rate of $1.9 / 1GBP. In 2008 it was $3.2 / 1GBP) As such do not get stiffed on your rate coming out here.
some rough costs
Housing - $3'000 - 12'000 / month realistically depending on location and requirements
Schooling - Chatsworth / UWC (best for british education system i am told) $30 / 40k per year
Car - rental lancer is $1,200 / month - finance is 1.88% fixed over up to 9 years - same lancer on never never for 7 years = $400/month - Nissan GTR = $2,600/month
Utilities (electric / mobile / AC / internet / TV) no more than $1000 / month
Tax - up to $88,000 = about $1,500. 15% on everything after that.
Plenty of clubs to join from Golf to sailing, to country etc etc.
All condo's have swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms etc etc.
good description of places here www.expatsingapore.com although the forums can get a bit b
hy!
feel free to PM me with any other questions - have been living here off and on for over a decade!!!
here are a few threads i have posted on about living in Singa
cost of motoring
COE Cars explained
a good article on finding housing in Singa
a general living in singa questions thread
some stuff on income, and cars again
health insurance
in summary - Singapore will seem bloody expensive as the GBP is worth about teh same as a Zimbabwean dollar!! (current exchange rate of $1.9 / 1GBP. In 2008 it was $3.2 / 1GBP) As such do not get stiffed on your rate coming out here.
some rough costs
Housing - $3'000 - 12'000 / month realistically depending on location and requirements
Schooling - Chatsworth / UWC (best for british education system i am told) $30 / 40k per year
Car - rental lancer is $1,200 / month - finance is 1.88% fixed over up to 9 years - same lancer on never never for 7 years = $400/month - Nissan GTR = $2,600/month
Utilities (electric / mobile / AC / internet / TV) no more than $1000 / month
Tax - up to $88,000 = about $1,500. 15% on everything after that.
Plenty of clubs to join from Golf to sailing, to country etc etc.
All condo's have swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms etc etc.
good description of places here www.expatsingapore.com although the forums can get a bit b
hy!feel free to PM me with any other questions - have been living here off and on for over a decade!!!
Regarding the civil liberties thing that alot of people have commented on - it certainly used to be like that, but things have changed a hell of a lot in the past 10 years, They don't block news from being published or filter the internet (except for some obvious pornographic sites) and no longer to censorship of films and TV (although the BBC channels do seem to have a fair few s and fks censored out ... (a bit like here 
) You can buy chewing gum here, but you will be give an on the spot fine if someone catches you spitting it on the floor (or your cigarette but etc) but is that a bad thing?
There are lot's of laws / rules here but many of them are common sense and exist because of the multi cultural nature of the place (for example, fine for not flushing the bog - many poorer nations here out of habit will let a few sessions mellow to save water - but water is not a rare commodity here, so its just a reminder - you can flush)
Driving can still be fun here, plenty of challenging short roads in Singa and we have Asia's Autobahn over the causeway, Pasir Guidang and Sepang a few hours north. Also a big drifting and drag racing scene here.
s and fks censored out ... (a bit like here ) You can buy chewing gum here, but you will be give an on the spot fine if someone catches you spitting it on the floor (or your cigarette but etc) but is that a bad thing? There are lot's of laws / rules here but many of them are common sense and exist because of the multi cultural nature of the place (for example, fine for not flushing the bog - many poorer nations here out of habit will let a few sessions mellow to save water - but water is not a rare commodity here, so its just a reminder - you can flush)
Driving can still be fun here, plenty of challenging short roads in Singa and we have Asia's Autobahn over the causeway, Pasir Guidang and Sepang a few hours north. Also a big drifting and drag racing scene here.
Thought I would add to the comments, I moved over together with my girlfriend about 5 months ago.
We moved over from London and can honestly say we will be here for at least 5 years if not more.
We used to rent in Richmond, London so used to high rents - we pay roughly the same here.
We live in a 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2 floor condo with balcony with Pool/Gym etc -- about 1400 hundred sq feet.
Our net pay has doubled. We do not have kids so don't have experience on schooling etc..
We live on the East Coast which is about 15 mins in a cab costing about 7-10 quid depending on traffic - a bus to town is about 60pence but takes about 40 mins...not a big deal if you are used to the London commute. As others have stated you can fly to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia very cheaply and easily.
We have met loads of people through work and some from PH! Genreally the expats are all in the same boat and are happy to meet for a beer or whatever, you just have to make an effort. I have an old school mate who has been here fro 15 years so have met a few lads through his network but it is very easy.
The heat is hard but at weekends I am in shorts and flip flops -- I dont wander around town in my work clothes - taxis or air conditioned places for lunch - again not a big deal...
We love it. - Cheers, Dave.
We moved over from London and can honestly say we will be here for at least 5 years if not more.
We used to rent in Richmond, London so used to high rents - we pay roughly the same here.
We live in a 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2 floor condo with balcony with Pool/Gym etc -- about 1400 hundred sq feet.
Our net pay has doubled. We do not have kids so don't have experience on schooling etc..
We live on the East Coast which is about 15 mins in a cab costing about 7-10 quid depending on traffic - a bus to town is about 60pence but takes about 40 mins...not a big deal if you are used to the London commute. As others have stated you can fly to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia very cheaply and easily.
We have met loads of people through work and some from PH! Genreally the expats are all in the same boat and are happy to meet for a beer or whatever, you just have to make an effort. I have an old school mate who has been here fro 15 years so have met a few lads through his network but it is very easy.
The heat is hard but at weekends I am in shorts and flip flops -- I dont wander around town in my work clothes - taxis or air conditioned places for lunch - again not a big deal...
We love it. - Cheers, Dave.
EDSEL1 said:
We have met loads of people through work and some from PH! Genreally the expats are all in the same boat and are happy to meet for a beer or whatever, you just have to make an effort.
yea .... really have to work on that one actually 
I think i am still recovering from beers with Nick in Phuket!
I've been here 14 months now and live at Robertson Quay, which would appear to be the expat living hub, to some extent...
I enjoy it, the quality of life is good and I have a car through work and medical insurance and all of that jazz...
I originally moved here with my ex but she found it hard to enjoy it without a job as it was somewhat 'boring' for her... I met my current girlfriend here, but I think we both find it very small and a move back to London is on the cards within the next couple of years, I suspect!
I have no real complaints - quality of life is great and although it is very expensive, for everything pretty much, that is more than offset by most expat packages and the tax rates. I save more money here than being at home.
I have no regrest in giving it a go at all, but I suspect my tenure will be shorter than some of the other guys on here... I miss my London and I can't really explain why. Though, having said that, I don't think I would have moved here as a single man, so maybe it is my mindset!
I enjoy it, the quality of life is good and I have a car through work and medical insurance and all of that jazz...
I originally moved here with my ex but she found it hard to enjoy it without a job as it was somewhat 'boring' for her... I met my current girlfriend here, but I think we both find it very small and a move back to London is on the cards within the next couple of years, I suspect!
I have no real complaints - quality of life is great and although it is very expensive, for everything pretty much, that is more than offset by most expat packages and the tax rates. I save more money here than being at home.
I have no regrest in giving it a go at all, but I suspect my tenure will be shorter than some of the other guys on here... I miss my London and I can't really explain why. Though, having said that, I don't think I would have moved here as a single man, so maybe it is my mindset!
dom9 said:
I originally moved here with my ex but she found it hard to enjoy it without a job as it was somewhat 'boring' for her...
This is a valid point, following spouse will be here with not old friends and can start to suffer cabin feaver, much like any other expat posting. It is a good idea to choose a home close to places that have her sort of activities (and there is groups / clubs etc for justa bout everything imaginable here!) XJSJohn said:
This is a valid point, following spouse will be here with not old friends and can start to suffer cabin feaver, much like any other expat posting. It is a good idea to choose a home close to places that have her sort of activities (and there is groups / clubs etc for justa bout everything imaginable here!)
Yeah, the increased cost of everything at the shops is very noticeable, so if your missus suddenly doesn't fancy shopping anymore, there ain't necessarily too much else to do... Having said that, people need to make their own fun and my ex-missus was only 25 at the time and she maybe needed a bit more stimulation than sitting in the flat. Having a pool, gym, golf simulator etc at ours is all well and good in tehory, but you need to keep up that social interaction otherwise it can feel a bit like a prison.You can go away at weekends though, so easily (though we can't get to Bali this weekend
) which can help make it feel more like a holiday. There is a fair amount of drinking here, which usually keeps us off (on?) the streets... So if that is not your thing, maybe think about living near (Vivo City way) or on Sentosa, where you have the beach and arguably more things to 'do' that don't involve getting on the session?Maybe we are just less good at making our own fun? We did have a good wander around Little India, the other day, which made a nice change and the markets in China Town etc all offer something different, it's just if you hit it all hard the first month, you will have most likely exhausted the things to do, well, forever...
It's the standard of living you come for, not the excitement, I guess?!
From my perspective of being a year in:
Expensive - yes and no. Look at your pay pre and post tax (and for fks sake don't get paid on a straight FX conversion, get them to up your salary by 50%, and get a couple of business flights back home included if you can). Beer - expensive if you drink in town, not too bad if you drink at the local places. But this is the kicker - assuming you're on 40% tax back home, it's more like 10% in Singapore, so your net earnings are a heck of a lot more.
My 25 minute commute costs me 91 cents each way, and I can get local food for under 5 bucks. You'll end up with the same rent as in London, but you get a pool, gym etc chucked in, which I doubt you get in Zone 2 in London. You also have the rest of asia on your doorstep - I'm going to Perth for a long weekend this weekend.
It can get a bit boring in Singapore, but then the weather is always hot, so it's not like the UK when you are freezing your tits off for months on end, which is worth the move alone!
Expensive - yes and no. Look at your pay pre and post tax (and for f
ks sake don't get paid on a straight FX conversion, get them to up your salary by 50%, and get a couple of business flights back home included if you can). Beer - expensive if you drink in town, not too bad if you drink at the local places. But this is the kicker - assuming you're on 40% tax back home, it's more like 10% in Singapore, so your net earnings are a heck of a lot more.My 25 minute commute costs me 91 cents each way, and I can get local food for under 5 bucks. You'll end up with the same rent as in London, but you get a pool, gym etc chucked in, which I doubt you get in Zone 2 in London. You also have the rest of asia on your doorstep - I'm going to Perth for a long weekend this weekend.
It can get a bit boring in Singapore, but then the weather is always hot, so it's not like the UK when you are freezing your tits off for months on end, which is worth the move alone!
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