Hidden Costs of Ultima Build
Discussion
Hi folks. Hope this isn't a repost or something which is likely to bore you all to tears, but... I'm working with a media company who are keen to produce a doco on building a supercar. I've suggested an Ultima (Cobras etc have been done to death, and we want to take this to another level). The company is keen, and we've gone through Ultima's prices with a fine tooth comb. So far so good, but I've heard of these builds costing far more than the original pricing estimates (sometimes as much as double), and wondered if you guys with first-hand build experience can shed some light on where the hidden costs are lurking. I realise much of the extra cost will increase with engine spec, but we already have an engine we can use (5.7 smallblock Chevy - can be upgraded later), so this should hopefully keep some of the costs down. I basically need a realistic idea of real build costs, and timescale (the car will be worked on pretty much full time, by a small team) so I can lay all the cards on the negotiating table. What I don't want is the company throwing hands in the air in horror halfway through the project and leaving me red-faced and frustrated with a rolling chassis! I'd be glad of any snippets of advice you can put my way. Thanks in advance.
Rather than go into detail at this stage I would estimate that you will spend £55K on parts and services + whatever labour you are using.
How does that compare to the figures you have already worked out from the Ultima price list? (If you haven’t worked it out then you are wasting our time).
If you have then post up your spreadsheet so we can critique it.
I took 18 months of evenings and weekends doing mine but I know of others who took just 6 months. Much depends on the skills of the team you use and how well you have specified your build to that team. There are builders on here who have spent 6 months on the dash alone trying to decide exactly what works for them. If a team is going to build it then you need to make these decisions up front or just build a factory standard build.
Kitcars are about being different so the builds will be significantly different in specification and therefore cost.
Steve
How does that compare to the figures you have already worked out from the Ultima price list? (If you haven’t worked it out then you are wasting our time).
If you have then post up your spreadsheet so we can critique it.
I took 18 months of evenings and weekends doing mine but I know of others who took just 6 months. Much depends on the skills of the team you use and how well you have specified your build to that team. There are builders on here who have spent 6 months on the dash alone trying to decide exactly what works for them. If a team is going to build it then you need to make these decisions up front or just build a factory standard build.
Kitcars are about being different so the builds will be significantly different in specification and therefore cost.
Steve
yep at least £35k if you have your own engine. (You still need a g'box and clutch)
And paint is an option you could do without.... but there isn't much you can do "cheap" A few have tried EG: cheap seats - which you will find probably wont fit etc.
Why not buy a second hand one and hide it in the garage for a year!
And paint is an option you could do without.... but there isn't much you can do "cheap" A few have tried EG: cheap seats - which you will find probably wont fit etc.
Why not buy a second hand one and hide it in the garage for a year!
Berserker LM said:
and timescale (the car will be worked on pretty much full time, by a small team)
A team full time? I would say you could build all but the body in a week! Its a kit after all..... Why not ask the factory a true build time? I think some say around 400 hours, so 5 of you working 8 hours a day, that's 10 days!Why not just film an actual build at the factory - zero cost then?
Here's an out of date spreadsheet that someone else made:
http://www.mez.co.uk/UltimaNew.xls
Here's an out of date spreadsheet that someone else made:
http://www.mez.co.uk/UltimaNew.xls
Edited by eliot on Wednesday 4th March 07:20
If you buy the full up kit from the factory and have the focus not vary from how the factory suggests to build the car you could add 10% on top of that fiqure, the cost of a complete engine, transaxel and tires and be done in 400 man hours. What will kill that estimate is the first time that you think you can modify or replace something the factory has done or supplied and attempt to do same within the stated budget of money and manhours. In the U.S. we call that AMF YO YO.... adios mother f...er you're on your own. Also stated as, "all you have to do" which usually means you do not have a clue as to whats really involved. Lee
Cost of a top spec GTR with G50 and LS7 engine:-
If you buy everything from the factory, and you have them pre-fit the bodywork (they do an EXCELLENT job) and you buy an LS7 from American Speed (I haven't ordered it yet, but I have pricing) and you buy a factory wing (I haven't decided on that yet), and factory exhaust system, you will have spent over £70k.
Where can you cut this figure down ?
Don't have a wing (saves almost £2k)
Source your own secondhand gearbox - I bought a re-conditioned one (maybe saves £1k)
Fit bodywork yourself, and remove flashlines yourself (saves over £2k)
Design your own fuel/oil system and source the parts yourself (I don't know - maybe save £500 ?)
I expect there is money to be saved buying the LS7 somewehere else if you know exactly what is needed - and maybe you could save some money on the exhaust system.
Bottom line :- If you have never built a car before and you don't know much about it and you want a top spec LS7 GTR with minimal headaches and full factory support, and you don't have the time and/or experience to source non-factory parts, you should budget for £70k+
If you have the ability to go your own way in certain areas and source your own parts, you can probably get down to £63 - £64k, I guess.
Note - this pricing is for a car with standard interior (factory instruments, no carpet or carbon fibre, etc. etc)
I hope this helps,
Regards
Kelvin
If you buy everything from the factory, and you have them pre-fit the bodywork (they do an EXCELLENT job) and you buy an LS7 from American Speed (I haven't ordered it yet, but I have pricing) and you buy a factory wing (I haven't decided on that yet), and factory exhaust system, you will have spent over £70k.
Where can you cut this figure down ?
Don't have a wing (saves almost £2k)
Source your own secondhand gearbox - I bought a re-conditioned one (maybe saves £1k)
Fit bodywork yourself, and remove flashlines yourself (saves over £2k)
Design your own fuel/oil system and source the parts yourself (I don't know - maybe save £500 ?)
I expect there is money to be saved buying the LS7 somewehere else if you know exactly what is needed - and maybe you could save some money on the exhaust system.
Bottom line :- If you have never built a car before and you don't know much about it and you want a top spec LS7 GTR with minimal headaches and full factory support, and you don't have the time and/or experience to source non-factory parts, you should budget for £70k+
If you have the ability to go your own way in certain areas and source your own parts, you can probably get down to £63 - £64k, I guess.
Note - this pricing is for a car with standard interior (factory instruments, no carpet or carbon fibre, etc. etc)
I hope this helps,
Regards
Kelvin
Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Thursday 5th March 07:48
JoulesCanAm said:
The numbers quoted in replies seem reasonable enough to me, so my question is why do completed Ultima's seem to sell for a mere fraction of their build cost, especilaly in the UK where they are regularly advertised sub GBP30K?
Because most owners want to build a car not just own it. This is not unique to Ultima as the same applies across the whole kitcar scene. It is not uncommon to see kitcars for sale with only 300 miles on them.Steve
Like any car Ultimas depreciate... and unfortunatelly the higher the spec the higher the depreciation as it cost loads more to go for a really high spec, but you dont see that return when you sell the car.
But if your cleaver with your spec an Ultima will depreciate less than many other cars... and they tend to not go below a certain ceiling.
But if your cleaver with your spec an Ultima will depreciate less than many other cars... and they tend to not go below a certain ceiling.
60mph said:
Mine cost 53k and I fitted the body.Engine cost 6k @ 2 dollars/pound.It's full ultima spec incl rear wing.
Yes - that exactly substantiates my post....add 2k for the factory body fit....American Speed LS7 with import duty, shipping and VAT is £21,400 ($30,400 @ current rate of 1.42)....So......
53k (Frank's cost)
2k (Factory body-fit)
15.4k (extra for AS LS7)
Grand Total = £70.4k
10 grand of that is VAT (give or take)
So what will it be "worth" when it's finished?
I don't know....
Regards
TuxMan said:
followed by 3 years development and another 8k .. !!
Only 8K?? My wish list runs to 19.6K currently.Anyhow I think you all have scared the OP off! I hope not though as it'll make a terrific TV show.
Who else saw "A car is born", that chap building a Cobra, wasn't so bad.
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