Any more info on the LS7 model Ultima introduced recently?
Discussion
I've been speaking to Richard (via email) and got the info in the LS7 kit. If anyone wants the price list I can email it on. It's apparently designed to be a retro-fit for the SBC, so it does not matter if you have a part-built car like me or a completed car. Prices are pretty reasonable, e.g the exhaust with cats, sensors and all mounting bits is £2500 (vs. £1700 for the SBC with no cats etc,), so not so much extra. I've found the factory to be pretty good price wise - its difficuly to get better prices elsewhere and going factory standard means support from them is much easier...
I got it all in a word doc, so anyone wants a copy just send me an email address and I'll send it on - but you should contact the factory to be sure !!!
I got it all in a word doc, so anyone wants a copy just send me an email address and I'll send it on - but you should contact the factory to be sure !!!
Edited by dutchess on Saturday 26th May 20:57
I was interested in the LS7 option until I got this reply from AS:-
The 800 hp supercharged engine is still in the prototype stages now. The inlet manifold must be finished and put into production. It could be a couple months.
This engine will be rather pricey. Somewhere in mid to upper 30K range.
Regards,
Gail Trent
Now bear in mind this is USD, but from what I've heard you can equate this to £sterling after freight duty etc we're talking about £80K+ for a decent car, or if you listen to the factory it's £45K....... Who to believe????
The 800 hp supercharged engine is still in the prototype stages now. The inlet manifold must be finished and put into production. It could be a couple months.
This engine will be rather pricey. Somewhere in mid to upper 30K range.
Regards,
Gail Trent
Now bear in mind this is USD, but from what I've heard you can equate this to £sterling after freight duty etc we're talking about £80K+ for a decent car, or if you listen to the factory it's £45K....... Who to believe????
i have the same thoughts, i really want to build an ultima, i have 20k to start it off and dont like the idea of the old engine due to comments on here about the stalling oil consumption etc... so i ahve just priced the ls7 option and i feel its a no goer, which to be honest p1sses me off/given me the arsehole now, 50k was about tops for me, not the 65-70k i expect it to be
I dont think you can compare SB power/$ to LS power/$ for a few reasons:
1. The LS is brand new (not rebuilt)
2. The LS will not leak oil.
3. The LS will not drink oil.
4. The LS is all alloy - this is an extra on AS price list
5. The LS is fuel injected I think to even START comparing the two $/HP with any consideration of drivability you'd have to add $2500-3000 to the SB price for Fuel Injection.
6. The LS is MUCH more fuel efficient - it will be cheaper to run and should figure in your price comparison.
7. The LS will not stink of fuel.
8. The LS will generally will be a much easier car to drive, own and maintain - and that part is very hard to price. I hate hearing the stories of guys on here that have spent time and money and poured themselves into their dream cars only to have the engine disappoint them.
9. The issue of the correction factor used by AS has been raised before, and in fairness must factor into any comparision you make..., On most SB dyno charts I have seen from AS they have used about 14% correction... which means that the comparable SB would be a 565x1.14=644hp.
NOTE - most of the above reasons can be used to approach the wife about a budget increase.
Basically, I dont think you can compare the LS to the SB.... they are two completely different systems. You guys should go for a spin in an LS powered car..... its a completely different car with an LS in it.
My 580hp supercharged LS2 runs about the same numbers as a stock LS7 and it is absolutely insane to drive. I drove Jeff Schwartz GTR last year from Chicago>Florida>New Jersey with him on Power Tour... at the time it had done 30000 HARD miles with a 500hp cammed LS6... it was more than adequate and we blew off anything that approached us on the highway including >700hp blown Camaros/Vettes.
For anyone considering engine choices, but are on a budget, I would go for a stock LS1 and stock cast iron manifolds. If you dont think thats enough power you can modify it later... there are LOADS of ways to get power out of the LS1 and in the meantime it will be an easy car to own. Even with a stock LS1 it will blow off most cars on the road.
The whole LS/Fuel Injection/Computers has been blown out of proportion as though it is some sort of black art. I must admit that I had only ever tinkered with carbed cars before I started out (I was forced to go LS due to emissions laws)... but the LS is in reality a MUCH simpler car to maintain than a SB. It is NOT harder to build with an LS.
As for pricing, the price from AS for an LS1 is USD13,750 .... you should be able to do better than that.
A crate LS1 is $4100, you need Harness ($800) + ECU ($300)+ remap ($300) + MAF ($400) + Sensors ($200) + Alt ($300) and to compare apples to apples add assembly and dyno time. I would think that you could even do without the dyno time on a stock engine with the remap.
... or you could get a low milage second hand engine WITH ECU etc for about 3K. You'd still need to get it remapped and rip out the unused wires.... but that's easy and there's loads of support on LS1tech if you wanna go that way.... there's loads of guys over there doing budget swaps into all sorts of stuff... along with guys doung very high end stuff.
1. The LS is brand new (not rebuilt)
2. The LS will not leak oil.
3. The LS will not drink oil.
4. The LS is all alloy - this is an extra on AS price list
5. The LS is fuel injected I think to even START comparing the two $/HP with any consideration of drivability you'd have to add $2500-3000 to the SB price for Fuel Injection.
6. The LS is MUCH more fuel efficient - it will be cheaper to run and should figure in your price comparison.
7. The LS will not stink of fuel.
8. The LS will generally will be a much easier car to drive, own and maintain - and that part is very hard to price. I hate hearing the stories of guys on here that have spent time and money and poured themselves into their dream cars only to have the engine disappoint them.
9. The issue of the correction factor used by AS has been raised before, and in fairness must factor into any comparision you make..., On most SB dyno charts I have seen from AS they have used about 14% correction... which means that the comparable SB would be a 565x1.14=644hp.
NOTE - most of the above reasons can be used to approach the wife about a budget increase.
Basically, I dont think you can compare the LS to the SB.... they are two completely different systems. You guys should go for a spin in an LS powered car..... its a completely different car with an LS in it.
My 580hp supercharged LS2 runs about the same numbers as a stock LS7 and it is absolutely insane to drive. I drove Jeff Schwartz GTR last year from Chicago>Florida>New Jersey with him on Power Tour... at the time it had done 30000 HARD miles with a 500hp cammed LS6... it was more than adequate and we blew off anything that approached us on the highway including >700hp blown Camaros/Vettes.
For anyone considering engine choices, but are on a budget, I would go for a stock LS1 and stock cast iron manifolds. If you dont think thats enough power you can modify it later... there are LOADS of ways to get power out of the LS1 and in the meantime it will be an easy car to own. Even with a stock LS1 it will blow off most cars on the road.
The whole LS/Fuel Injection/Computers has been blown out of proportion as though it is some sort of black art. I must admit that I had only ever tinkered with carbed cars before I started out (I was forced to go LS due to emissions laws)... but the LS is in reality a MUCH simpler car to maintain than a SB. It is NOT harder to build with an LS.
As for pricing, the price from AS for an LS1 is USD13,750 .... you should be able to do better than that.
A crate LS1 is $4100, you need Harness ($800) + ECU ($300)+ remap ($300) + MAF ($400) + Sensors ($200) + Alt ($300) and to compare apples to apples add assembly and dyno time. I would think that you could even do without the dyno time on a stock engine with the remap.
... or you could get a low milage second hand engine WITH ECU etc for about 3K. You'd still need to get it remapped and rip out the unused wires.... but that's easy and there's loads of support on LS1tech if you wanna go that way.... there's loads of guys over there doing budget swaps into all sorts of stuff... along with guys doung very high end stuff.
Edited by crafty on Sunday 27th May 08:44
I'm also putting an LS7 im my GTR, I think its definetly the way to go for all the usual reasons. there are other sources other than American Speed such as Gardner Douglas, Jeff Schwartz and ebay.Im planning on shopping around to try and get the best deals and hopefully the best quality possible. using as little as possible from the factory as they seem rather expensive.any thoughts on this or even better experience would be much appreciated.
The problem is that the price from the factory will most likely cover every nut, bolt and tywrap to supply and install the engine including everything that changes in the engine bay. On the other hand it is being compared to a crate engine in.....a crate. The cost of just pipe fittings alone would break most banks.
It has been my experience that the factory prices are not the cheapest but are very complete and well researched thereby eliminating the false starts and second guessing you will meet if you try and create your own install. Ask Wayne how many parts he has bought and then not used in his non factory build.
PS Anyone need a sump that is to deep (by 1/2"
to use in and Ultima. See what I mean.
Steve
It has been my experience that the factory prices are not the cheapest but are very complete and well researched thereby eliminating the false starts and second guessing you will meet if you try and create your own install. Ask Wayne how many parts he has bought and then not used in his non factory build.
PS Anyone need a sump that is to deep (by 1/2"
to use in and Ultima. See what I mean.Steve
I agree with the above in some ways. I know lsx's pretty well and there isn't a crate engine that you just drop in a fire up. It just won't happen. Forget used as well, they won't help either. You have to change a fair few parts, sort out a load of stuff and then you're in with a chance. Then you need the ultima specific stuff so before you know it the cheap engine you bought is just half of the cost.
You have to learn a lot about these to buy on the cheap or just pitch in with the factory or jeff or somebody who's been there before you.
Boosted.
You have to learn a lot about these to buy on the cheap or just pitch in with the factory or jeff or somebody who's been there before you.
Boosted.
hahithestevieboy said:
dutchess said:
Just emailed you my LS7-SBC comparison, worked out the 650bhp LS7 is £5k + VAT more than the 640bhp SBC in total. My previous budget was 51k, so I'm now up to 56k. 10% more - hmmm, am going to find that extra somewhere even if I have to pawn the wife 
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