599GTB vs Ultima
Discussion
Been hanging around Pistonheads and reading alot about Ultima's and I'm finally to the point of buying a second hand one or ordering from the factory...However, if I'm going to spend US$100K on a car, I wanna make sure its worth its salt. Road and Track recently tested a 599GTB; 0-60 = 3.2sec, 1/4mi = 11.2. 0-100 = 6.8 secs. Thats quick! I understand the factory has all kinds of records, but what about the average guy?
Plain and simple, I just wanna make sure that if I pull up next to a Porsche Turbo, Vette Z06, Ferrari 599 etc etc...that the Ultima can do more than hold its own. I know it'll be a big step up from my "regular" 911...but thats the whole idea! I know its all a bit childish, but thats part of the fun! So, what spec would I need to stay ahead of 99.9% of the cars on the road and not need a rebuild every 1000miles!??
Plain and simple, I just wanna make sure that if I pull up next to a Porsche Turbo, Vette Z06, Ferrari 599 etc etc...that the Ultima can do more than hold its own. I know it'll be a big step up from my "regular" 911...but thats the whole idea! I know its all a bit childish, but thats part of the fun! So, what spec would I need to stay ahead of 99.9% of the cars on the road and not need a rebuild every 1000miles!??
I would say you want a minimum of 500 bhp, 5 speed box, 4 speed will do if you can find one, don't get a six speed, a box with optimised ratios is favourite but you are unlikely to find this in a pre built car. LSD is also a worthwile extra. It really depends what else you are looking for in a car like this but if build quality, reliability, cudos down to the marque are what you are after then I would question whether an Ultima is really what you want. I don't know how easy it would be over there but I would strongly recomend trying one first before you buy, good luck.
You should also visit Ultima club US.
They have a map of the states showing where members live so you could find someone local and chat with them.
Steve
They have a map of the states showing where members live so you could find someone local and chat with them.
Steve
a Real 500bhp will see a 3.2-3.5's 0-60.... and also a sub 11.5's quarter mile time.
I'd have to ask if the average guy could produce the 599 times you mention, but as an average guy I was able to get officially timed sub 4's 0-60's, 7.4's 0-100 and 11.4's quarters and mine could do 200+mph all in a 500bhp canam with hard tyres (rears did nearly 10k miles even with the track and strip action).
Change the engine to an LS7 with cams and I could have blitzed the 599 times IMO.
A lot will depend on having the right gearbox as this can make as big a difference to the acceleration times as another 100bhp.
Put another way, you wouldn't be disapointed at the lights unless you stalled or ran out of petrol.
I'd have to ask if the average guy could produce the 599 times you mention, but as an average guy I was able to get officially timed sub 4's 0-60's, 7.4's 0-100 and 11.4's quarters and mine could do 200+mph all in a 500bhp canam with hard tyres (rears did nearly 10k miles even with the track and strip action).
Change the engine to an LS7 with cams and I could have blitzed the 599 times IMO.
A lot will depend on having the right gearbox as this can make as big a difference to the acceleration times as another 100bhp.
Put another way, you wouldn't be disapointed at the lights unless you stalled or ran out of petrol.
Thanks for the info guys...I really appreciate your advice. It seems like 500hp and the right gear box/ratios are the keys to the performance I am looking for. In terms of a 4 speed, would something from a late 70's 930 turbo do the trick?? IIRC they were all 4 speeds...Lastly, with that kind of power to weight ratio, is it hard to keep the tires planted? 2nd gear starts?? thanks!
jaredw said:
Thanks for the info guys...I really appreciate your advice. It seems like 500hp and the right gear box/ratios are the keys to the performance I am looking for. In terms of a 4 speed, would something from a late 70's 930 turbo do the trick?? IIRC they were all 4 speeds...Lastly, with that kind of power to weight ratio, is it hard to keep the tires planted? 2nd gear starts?? thanks!
My canam had the 930 4 speed (with changed ratios) and I am not sure I would go as far as to recomend it as its not a nice box to use (it is a very old design), personnely I would go for a G50 and change the ratios.
The car handles 500bhp very easily and it wont spin it away unless you deliberatly do it especially if you have an LSD.
Take 3 ‘boxes G50/52 (common choice), 930 turbo, G50/50 or /52 with replacement top gear (which I’m told is easy to do as it is in the housing right at the back of the ‘box).
These figures are the shift points and max top speed not the highest speed in each gear.
With 6500 rev limit. Speeds for each box.
45...52...45
80...90...80
111..131..111
144..179..144
192.......211
With 7000 rev limit. Speeds for each box.
49...56...49
82...94...82
111..131..111
144..193..152
207.......227
As can be seen revs make a lot of difference to the top speed so choosing say the 377 engine that is built for revs is worthwhile and it may not make much difference to the cost.
If the magic 200mph is your target then Lucky-p should be able to advise on the cost of the gear if you choose to go that route. If you want other things from it then someone else will need to advise you on which ratios you should get for each gear and a complete ‘box rebuild.
Steve
These figures are the shift points and max top speed not the highest speed in each gear.
With 6500 rev limit. Speeds for each box.
45...52...45
80...90...80
111..131..111
144..179..144
192.......211
With 7000 rev limit. Speeds for each box.
49...56...49
82...94...82
111..131..111
144..193..152
207.......227
As can be seen revs make a lot of difference to the top speed so choosing say the 377 engine that is built for revs is worthwhile and it may not make much difference to the cost.
If the magic 200mph is your target then Lucky-p should be able to advise on the cost of the gear if you choose to go that route. If you want other things from it then someone else will need to advise you on which ratios you should get for each gear and a complete ‘box rebuild.
Steve
Of all the modifications carried out on the GTW I consider the rebuilt G50/03 useing tailored ratios to be one of the most benificial and advantageous. I would say that matching your gearset to the specific power output/band of your engine is one of the biggest performance gains that can be made and also the other associated pluses are a bonus ie. You can make use of all gears, it is a more pleasureable experience all round to drive, in 5th at cruise it is bordering on economy ( or as close as you are ever going to get with these type of cars ) and when at full bore, each rpm is being optimised to the max. The only thing you may sight as a downside is of course the cost. To buy the standard G50, a full set of gears, uprated side caseing and selecter fork, steel synchro rings and an ZF steel LSD + assembly = 6.5 K but I really do believe that this type of gearbox would transform a 450 bhp motor rather than spending almost as much by building a 550 bhp engine but sticking with the standard box. People seem happy to spend alot of money on their engine but skimp when it comes to gearbox spec, strange but true.
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