Ultima the new TVR?

[v8owner]

Im sure its not in Teds interest?
BUT I wonder if now that TVR are well and truly dead, wether poularity in the ultima brand would have increased?

What else is there with a similiar ethos?

lightwieght.. big v8 .. naff all driver aids?

[crafty]

When a TVR takes a world record for one of its acheivements, then Ultima would have something to aspire to take the place of. Until then, Ultima would have to take a step down the cool ladder to match TVR.

[v8owner]

well said!, that, is a very good point..!

i was thinking more about sales numbers/opportunities?

[andygtt]

I think what is meant is can Ultima replace TVR as THE british supercar in the public eye.

[xtr2turbo]

I have 2 TVRs and I think they are a somewhat different proposition to the Ultima.

I'm sure there may be some additional sales but I think an Ultima is in a different market - more extreme, focussed and performance orientated with track bias. Also more expensive if new and built to a top spec. A large proportion of TVRs are used daily. Sure many TVRs are second cars but still cars that often get taken on European tours etc where luggage space a requirement and the other half probably wants a bit of comfort.

I could see more Noble owners moving to Ultima's if they do not get their replacement car out soon though.

David

[stig]

andygtt said:

I think what is meant is can Ultima replace TVR as THE british supercar in the public eye.

Supercar or Sports car?

Thing is, TVR never really produced a 'supercar' as such (the Speed 12 doesn't really count). They did produce an bunch of affordable, hairy-ar$ed RWD sports cars though.

Until Ultima's are made in volume (even low volume) as a factory only product, for about £35k-£40k, then they're incomparable.

Shame Ted/Richard aren't running TVR though!

[P15TON]

I hope for the sake of Ultima, they don't become the next TVR. In my experience, TVR's are total & utter sh*te, and their demise was nothing more than inevitable.

Discuss. (!)

Edited by P15TON on Thursday 15th March 09:28

[v8owner]

true i always forget that the 'built' price is so much more money..

I realise i was perhaps a little hasty in my posting.. agreed the ultima is more a supercar than the tvr..

however it is still basic priciples tho - like tvr?
and the cerbera 4.5 not bad performance?..

BHP 420.0
Maximum Speed 165
Acceleration (0-60) 3.9

ps. i dont want ultima to be the next tvr either.. I just wondered if now there were less 'true' drivers cars.. weather ultima would become more famous/popular?

(and yes i call a drivers car one without lots of electronics!!)

[RichardD]

v8owner said:

true i always forget that the 'built' price is so much more money..

I realise i was perhaps a little hasty in my posting.. agreed the ultima is more a supercar than the tvr..

however it is still basic priciples tho - like tvr?
and the cerbera 4.5 not bad performance?..

BHP 420.0
Maximum Speed 165
Acceleration (0-60) 3.9

ps. i dont want ultima to be the next tvr either.. I just wondered if now there were less 'true' drivers cars.. weather ultima would become more famous/popular?

(and yes i call a drivers car one without lots of electronics!!)

Well TVR's are sports cars, sometimes they have been labeled supercars (mainly the Cerb) but that's just a performance thing and IMO incorrect as it should refer to vehicle style rather than performance.

I only think Ultimas are sort of supercars, they are not oversized overweight overcomplex extravagencies that full supercars are, Ultimas are pure simple performance machines.

In the past TVR's have been dominated by their engines. When the AJP8 stopped and only the Speed6 available this was not the case any more. So the bonkers element has gone. Hence people wanting a monster engine with four wheels could certainly be attracted to Ultimas I do know of one chap in the region who is doing so, think he is/was on PH as StainlessSteve?

For Ultima to be the next TVR the prices would need to go up and the bhp would need to go down

[RichardD]

P15TON said:

I hope for the sake of Ultima, they don't become the next TVR. In my experience, TVR's are total & utter sh*te, and their demise was nothing more than inevitable.

Discuss. (!)
...

Peter, did you have a bad experience which drove you down the Porsche line ? Or after racing V8's all week, something sensible with a different number of cylinders is fine

Have a read of:-

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=13&t=366774&h=0

Fascinating stuff on the early days of the Speed 6 and Tuscan.

PS : Would you recommend a custom LS1/6 or LS2 to replace a Rover V8 (the LS7 won't fit ) ?

[ATG]

Ultima and TVR are very different. If any firm was going to fill the gap left by TVR (if you believe there is a gap to fill) it would surely be Marcos? Ultima are much more comparable to Caterham; many cars sold as kits, highly customised by their owners, very basic interior, absolutely focussed on performance, practicality not a concern, owners are almost all highly knowledgeable enthusiasts. TVR had much more mass market appeal; no kits, much greater focus on styling and aesthetics, boots for golf clubs and medallions, acceptance of handling being a bit pants. Proof of the pudding is that quite a lot of people bought TVRs as style items and were horrified to discover that their car was less reliable than a VW Golf.

[P15TON]

PS : Would you recommend a custom LS1/6 or LS2 to replace a Rover V8 (the LS7 won't fit ) ?
[/quote]


Reply: Yes, first hand experience with the Speed 6 engine, and dealing with TVR. Anyone who googles 'TVR speed six' and then buys one afterwards is the author of their own misfortune.

Re: LS Motors. If the LS2 fits, the LS7 will as they are similar in everything except total length (dry sump pump means deeper front cover.) This can be swapped for an LS2 front end and an Aviaid dry sump set up to shorten the front end. Hope this helps (you buy one)you won't be disappointed!)

Edited by P15TON on Thursday 15th March 12:52

Edited by P15TON on Thursday 15th March 12:53

[jacko460c]

I thought TVRs reason for being was to keep the AA,RAC and aftermarket parts people in business? Ultimas seem to be way above that as far as I can see!

[deadscoob]

v8owner said:

however it is still basic priciples tho - like tvr?
and the cerbera 4.5 not bad performance?..

BHP 420.0
Maximum Speed 165
Acceleration (0-60) 3.9

I think TVR use a similar dyno to AS - take 14% off 420 and you're probably closer to the real figure

[BCA]

deadscoob said:

v8owner said:

however it is still basic priciples tho - like tvr?
and the cerbera 4.5 not bad performance?..

BHP 420.0
Maximum Speed 165
Acceleration (0-60) 3.9

I think TVR use a similar dyno to AS - take 14% off 420 and you're probably closer to the real figure

Until you remap it to give it the correct fuelling and change the induction to let it breathe as its meant to (just over £1k s worth of work.) Then you get pretty close to 420, with a massively more smooth power delivery at lower revs. The maximum speed figure is quite funny, even with 350ish bhp on the standard map these things will hit real 180mph+, I've seen it done and varified at Vmax (179mph's a few times) and ahem... elsewhere.

I wouldnt have said either of the two marques are compareable to be honest. Totally different cars, in a good way.

I'd love an AJP8 engined Ultima...

Edited by BCA on Friday 16th March 05:59

[deadscoob]

But why do you have to modify the car in the first place to even get close to hitting the standard quoted horsepower?

I'm sure these engines are capable of hitting that power, shame most never left TVR that way though.

[P15TON]

An AJP powered Ultima....
....I think I'll go an nail some jelly to the ceiling.

[RichardD]

P15TON said:

Reply: Yes, first hand experience with the Speed 6 engine, and dealing with TVR. Anyone who googles 'TVR speed six' and then buys one afterwards is the author of their own misfortune.

Re: LS Motors. If the LS2 fits, the LS7 will as they are similar in everything except total length (dry sump pump means deeper front cover.) This can be swapped for an LS2 front end and an Aviaid dry sump set up to shorten the front end. Hope this helps (you buy one)you won't be disappointed!)

Thanks for that

Supposedly newer ones have subtle changes and higher quality components, but given I've mentioned RV8 and LSx engines I'm obviously into simple grunt

In your opinion then is a standard LS7 worth the extra over a upgraded LS2? With head and cam swap gmhightechperformance.com have tests with impressive big numbers, or are these American horses which are smaller than European ones ?

[simonrockman]

Marcos

[xtr2turbo]

simonrockman said:

Marcos

Yes that was what I thought / hoped until I tried to sit in it. Less space than an Elise. Appaling packaging for a new GT car and sadly I think they will loose lots of customers because of it.

Also surprised by the knocking of TVRs on here. Sure the cars had many faults but you can't avoid the fact that most buyers are real car enthusiasts and many of the cars stuck 2 fingers up to the politically correct nanny state. I think the car world will be worse off now without them.

Edited by xtr2turbo on Friday 16th March 16:07