Why Dont Ultima's Win Races?
Discussion
Guys,
The Ultima is a serious piece of kit, looks akin to a Group C racer, so why isnt it more successful in GT racing? It never seems to do that well in the British GT's or Castle Coombe GT's - whilst the visually similar stealth was blistering a few years back.
(I am not trolling) just genuinely interested as you would expect it to wipe the floor with most road car based racers but doesnt seem to?
Bennno
The Ultima is a serious piece of kit, looks akin to a Group C racer, so why isnt it more successful in GT racing? It never seems to do that well in the British GT's or Castle Coombe GT's - whilst the visually similar stealth was blistering a few years back.
(I am not trolling) just genuinely interested as you would expect it to wipe the floor with most road car based racers but doesnt seem to?
Bennno
Check out Grasser Racing. www.grasser-racing.com
Their GTR can destroy a Radical SR8 around the track. I think their Sport which is up for sale now won many races against Ferraris and Porsches.
Their GTR can destroy a Radical SR8 around the track. I think their Sport which is up for sale now won many races against Ferraris and Porsches.
d3vine said:
Check out Grasser Racing. www.grasser-racing.com
Their GTR can destroy a Radical SR8 around the track. I think their Sport which is up for sale now won many races against Ferraris and Porsches.
which is more what i would expect, certainly the tuscan chassis, v8 engined Sararis was shooping the SR8's at Castle Coombe last weekend...
Bennno
egomeister said:
Mainly down to money I'd say, certainly in the case of Brit GT's.
Anyone fancy properly bankrolling an Ultima BGT challenge??
Agreed. Masters Motorsport and Colin Blower were running the cars on a very short shoestring budget.
When you're up against the well heeled Ferrari teams etc. it's tough going.
stig said:
Mainly down to money I'd say, certainly in the case of Brit GT's.
Anyone fancy properly bankrolling an Ultima BGT challenge??
Agreed. Masters Motorsport and Colin Blower were running the cars on a very short shoestring budget.
When you're up against the well heeled Ferrari teams etc. it's tough going.
Indeed.
Master Motorsport still have their car, and I'm sure would bring it out if the funds were available. I'm not sure what has happened to the Blower car - I recall it was up for auction but I can't remember if it sold or who has it now.
I'm sure an Ultima could race competitivly given the right budget, but whether such money materialises remains to be seen.
Edit: That Grasser car looks like a real piece of kit!!
>> Edited by egomeister on Wednesday 24th May 13:43
GTWayne said:
I have always thought part of the appeal of the Ultima was that it is a road car that looks like a track refugee.Why then are some people so keen to see it do well on a race track,I don't understand?
Would you rather have a road car that looks like a racing car as per your post, or a racing car that can be driven on the road?
Racing success would boost the appeal of the Ultima and give it some pedigree against the likes of Porsche or Ferrari.
Ask yourself, if the original GT40 hadnt won at Le Mans would it be worth upwards of a mil today?
Bennno
They do race...
www.qvickmotors.be/en/
This one has the BMW M3 6cill engine in it tuned to 410ps and its for sale
Also look under "gallery" then Ultima project to see how they build it...
GTRene
www.qvickmotors.be/en/
This one has the BMW M3 6cill engine in it tuned to 410ps and its for sale
Also look under "gallery" then Ultima project to see how they build it...
GTRene
Would you rather have a road car that looks like a racing car as per your post, or a racing car that can be driven on the road?
Racing success would boost the appeal of the Ultima and give it some pedigree against the likes of Porsche or Ferrari.
Ask yourself, if the original GT40 hadnt won at Le Mans would it be worth upwards of a mil today?
Bennno
For me,a road car that looks like a racing car is more appealing than vice-versa.Reasons; more pleasant to drive,more compliant,doesn't need to be optimised to the max and so will be more reliable and need less maintenance,more cost effective to run.As for the residuals being boosted by the cars pedigree,who cares! Right from the outset,one decission I felt paramount in my Ultima build was 'what if I do not realise the cost of the car upon resale'.I have to conclude,I don't give a flying rats arse!I built this car to my own agenda and even if I have to sell it for £1.50, the way I look at it is that it has cost me £XXXXXX amount for the privalige of indulging in a once in a lifetime experience.
The main problem with the Ultima is that its chassis is too flexible to win races, don't get me wrong I love the ultima but its handling isn't on a par with the front runners.
the gtr that raced in the british gt's the year before last was not a standard setup it had a widened track, even the bodywork had to be modified
the gtr that raced in the british gt's the year before last was not a standard setup it had a widened track, even the bodywork had to be modified
I was refraining from commenting on this topic in the hope that future results would speak for themselves.
Maddog - are you racing at Snetterton next week? I had my first ever race at Brands Hatch for which you were absent from the grid and am feeling much more confident for the next few races. I will keep my eye out for you on the grid (hopefully in my mirrors)
My car is completely standard and restricted in power to comply with the regulations but was great fun at Brands (which is what matters to me) but at some point this year I hope to prove that Ultimas with jelly chassis can win races.
I took it easy and built up my times and managed a 3rd place in the Endurance race and am hoping to go a bit quicker for the second race at Snetterton.
Maddog - are you racing at Snetterton next week? I had my first ever race at Brands Hatch for which you were absent from the grid and am feeling much more confident for the next few races. I will keep my eye out for you on the grid (hopefully in my mirrors)
My car is completely standard and restricted in power to comply with the regulations but was great fun at Brands (which is what matters to me) but at some point this year I hope to prove that Ultimas with jelly chassis can win races.
I took it easy and built up my times and managed a 3rd place in the Endurance race and am hoping to go a bit quicker for the second race at Snetterton.
Chewy said:
I was refraining from commenting on this topic in the hope that future results would speak for themselves.
Maddog - are you racing at Snetterton next week? I had my first ever race at Brands Hatch for which you were absent from the grid and am feeling much more confident for the next few races. I will keep my eye out for you on the grid (hopefully in my mirrors)
My car is completely standard and restricted in power to comply with the regulations but was great fun at Brands (which is what matters to me) but at some point this year I hope to prove that Ultimas with jelly chassis can win races.
I took it easy and built up my times and managed a 3rd place in the Endurance race and am hoping to go a bit quicker for the second race at Snetterton.
Got a bood picture of you actually bro!
[pic]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:So[pic]
So I take it there are some people on here who feel if Ultima won more races then they would sell more cars?
Ha. Tell that to Noble. He seems to be selling a TON of cars now as compared to 5 years ago. I can't remember seeing a photo of a Noble on the track.
But to get back to your question, to be competitive in racing, a lot of work must be done to the car and the chassis. Same with the Porsches and Ferrari's though. With the right engineering, it can be very competitive. It all really comes down to money really. I thought I'd read Blower spent $250k on developing that car. Lots of trick bits on it. The uprights alone on that car run $20k and that doesn't include spares. Then there are some teams who have picked up basically a factory Ultima with rose joints, added slicks, and done quite well. K&N did this. They had some trouble with breaking components, but they were basically racing on slicks the same car that the factory sells. I heard they ran some blistering lap times on US road courses. When they were racing the car I once saw them blow past a Saleen on the straights like it was standing still. The next year they went oto sponsor a Saleen, ironically, but I speculate that this was due to more support from Saleen. Imagine if their Ultima had been a full on effort with a much stiffer chassis and uprated components.
Even Grasser's chassis looks basically stock to me, and they've done quite well. Grasser's got a few trick bits, but there is a LOT more that can be done to the car.
The Ultima started life as a competitive racing kit, and through the years, has evolved into a road going supercar. Nothing wrong with that and obviously it has helped sales.
Cheers!
-Mack
Ha. Tell that to Noble. He seems to be selling a TON of cars now as compared to 5 years ago. I can't remember seeing a photo of a Noble on the track.
But to get back to your question, to be competitive in racing, a lot of work must be done to the car and the chassis. Same with the Porsches and Ferrari's though. With the right engineering, it can be very competitive. It all really comes down to money really. I thought I'd read Blower spent $250k on developing that car. Lots of trick bits on it. The uprights alone on that car run $20k and that doesn't include spares. Then there are some teams who have picked up basically a factory Ultima with rose joints, added slicks, and done quite well. K&N did this. They had some trouble with breaking components, but they were basically racing on slicks the same car that the factory sells. I heard they ran some blistering lap times on US road courses. When they were racing the car I once saw them blow past a Saleen on the straights like it was standing still. The next year they went oto sponsor a Saleen, ironically, but I speculate that this was due to more support from Saleen. Imagine if their Ultima had been a full on effort with a much stiffer chassis and uprated components.
Even Grasser's chassis looks basically stock to me, and they've done quite well. Grasser's got a few trick bits, but there is a LOT more that can be done to the car.
The Ultima started life as a competitive racing kit, and through the years, has evolved into a road going supercar. Nothing wrong with that and obviously it has helped sales.
Cheers!
-Mack
d3vine said:
Check out Grasser Racing. www.grasser-racing.com
Their GTR can destroy a Radical SR8 around the track. I think their Sport which is up for sale now won many races against Ferraris and Porsches.
destroy a SR8?? Are you positive?!! Did you see any races between the two?
Got a bood picture of you actually bro!
[pic]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:So[pic]
I know we have the same good looks - but thats you in the CanAm - you can tell as there is no roof and as your free-wheeling you must have blown the engine again.
[pic]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:So[pic]
I know we have the same good looks - but thats you in the CanAm - you can tell as there is no roof and as your free-wheeling you must have blown the engine again.
I spoke to Gottfried from Grasser Racing. He's the one who raced in the Ultima with the Sports body. That car won several 1st places finishes against well prepared race cars like Ferrari, Porsches, etc... I forgot the name of the track. But he mentioned that the Ultima Sports, currently for sale out lap the SR8 by several seconds. From what he said, their aerodynamic upgrades to car allows it to be driven upside down from a certain speed. Also, their car has a higher to power to weight ratio than the SR8. That's how I came up with the statement being the Grasser's Ultima GT1 is quicker than the SR8.
All of their finishes from their GT1 is posted on their Website. You can ask Gottfried himself about the SR8. He also mentioned that the SR8 can not corner at 3Gs unless it hit a wall. Their new carbon fibre body GT1 seems to be even quicker than the Sports.
All of their finishes from their GT1 is posted on their Website. You can ask Gottfried himself about the SR8. He also mentioned that the SR8 can not corner at 3Gs unless it hit a wall. Their new carbon fibre body GT1 seems to be even quicker than the Sports.
d3vine said:
I spoke to Gottfried from Grasser Racing. He's the one who raced in the Ultima with the Sports body. That car won several 1st places finishes against well prepared race cars like Ferrari, Porsches, etc... I forgot the name of the track. But he mentioned that the Ultima Sports, currently for sale out lap the SR8 by several seconds. From what he said, their aerodynamic upgrades to car allows it to be driven upside down from a certain speed. Also, their car has a higher to power to weight ratio than the SR8. That's how I came up with the statement being the Grasser's Ultima GT1 is quicker than the SR8.
All of their finishes from their GT1 is posted on their Website. You can ask Gottfried himself about the SR8. He also mentioned that the SR8 can not corner at 3Gs unless it hit a wall. Their new carbon fibre body GT1 seems to be even quicker than the Sports.
Thank you.
I'm still not sure he has raced against the SR8 before. From windtunnel testing, the SR8 can also be driven upside down at 170mph, where it makes enough downforce to support the car, driver and full tank of fuel.
Also, from what I understand, it already has taken a corner at 3Gs.
If the Grasser can lap quicker than this, then it is very big news indeed:
www.autoexpress.co.uk/video_gallery/61467/radical_sr8_smashes_nrburgring_lap_record.html
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