Will this make Ultimas redundant? 525hp in 525kg.
Discussion
This one, I reckon, is a bigger threat than the Freestream T1.
Weighs 525kg, has a 2.4L v8 that makes 525hp@10500rpm.
And one has actually been fully built.
www.bebi.se/cars.html
p/s It's Swedish tho
Weighs 525kg, has a 2.4L v8 that makes 525hp@10500rpm.
And one has actually been fully built.
www.bebi.se/cars.html
p/s It's Swedish tho
For this and the T1, both: only a 190+ MPH top-speed is advertised. Gareth's has been to 231 and had potential for even more. 1 advantage for Ultima.
But their light weights give them the cornering advantage: better cornering since, as a ratio to the car's weight, they have relatively larger wheels/tires (and thus capable of more grip). 1 disadvantage, against Ultima.
As for power:weight, let's keep in mind that a 1000-bhp Ultima requires no mods to the kit Ultima sells and the Ultima's "official" weight of 990 kg with this 1000-bhp engine would actually beat the power:weight ratio of the 525-hp:525-kg Quercianella. The Ultima's weight can vary greatly depending on the options ordered, of course -- but does the Quercianella even has luggage-bins or AirCon to make it "equivalent" to a street-friendly, heavy Ultima which is "loaded" in terms of its options-list? Edited to add: Also, the Querci is topless, and thus should be compared to Ultima's Can-Am, which weighs something like 50-100 kg less than the 990-kg GTR? Thus, it is measurably worse than Can-Am's power:weight. Hmmm, boomer, you've given us this car with worse power:weight than Ultima's Gtr and much-worse power:weight than Ultima's Can-Am, and you gave us the other car (the T1) which achieves better power:weight merely by being more track-only oriented (I say that because a track-only Ultima with an LSx Chevy and no luggage bins, no extra seat, possibly no AirCon, etc., should match the T1's power:weight). Slight advantage to Ultima's ability not to be "redundant," but I won't even give any "points" to Ultima for this power:weight issue.
So far, they're even (because the Ultima would pass on high-speed straights, then be passed in the corners; so, really, whether an Ultima wins the race against either car you proposed to make Ultimas "obslete" would depend on whether it's a high-speed or slow-speed circuit -- and the particular Ultima, since most are custom built to the owner's specs). Now consider that Ultima costs half as much as the T1 -- even if a 1000-bhp LSx engine and a sequential tranny are used -- and bebi.se doesn't bother advertising their price, and the conclusion is no, they will not turn Ultima obsolete. (and with the Quercianella's sequential tranny and CF + Mg parts, I think we all know it costs at LEAST $200k but feel free to prove me wrong. (-; Their own website says they want to compete with cars selling for 300k GBP "for half the price" though, which is about $250k. (-: )
Ultima can use cheap huge American horsepower instead of a chassis made of unobtanium to match these cars' power:weight, and this explains how *every other issue above* besides the power:weight issue comes about:
- Ultima's higher top-speed (light weight doesn't help top-speed, but more HP does),
- Ultima's worse cornering grip (since tires only as wide as 335mm are commonly available, the non-Ultimas have more choices), and
- Ultima's lower cost (Chevy HP is cheap; CF or Mg are not).
American-powered midengine kit cars (or even Cobra replicas) are more likely to compete with Ultimas or make them "obsolete" than either of the models you've propose since they compete more on-par with the Ultima zeitgeist (i.e. very few fancy chassis materials, low prices -- and semi-low weights but not as lightweight as the T1 or Querci's exotic materials, and way, way more HP than the T1 or Querci to make up for the heavier weight).
You just won't see the T1 or Querci in the same racing class as any Ultima given the huge weight and HP differences (and e.g., one would blow by the other in the corners and then get passed on the straights; when was the last time you've seen such disparate cars that can pass each other in those different ways placed into the same class in professional racing??), which is a good indicator that you are still comparing apples to oranges.
>> Edited by jeff-texas on Thursday 9th March 12:48
But their light weights give them the cornering advantage: better cornering since, as a ratio to the car's weight, they have relatively larger wheels/tires (and thus capable of more grip). 1 disadvantage, against Ultima.
As for power:weight, let's keep in mind that a 1000-bhp Ultima requires no mods to the kit Ultima sells and the Ultima's "official" weight of 990 kg with this 1000-bhp engine would actually beat the power:weight ratio of the 525-hp:525-kg Quercianella. The Ultima's weight can vary greatly depending on the options ordered, of course -- but does the Quercianella even has luggage-bins or AirCon to make it "equivalent" to a street-friendly, heavy Ultima which is "loaded" in terms of its options-list? Edited to add: Also, the Querci is topless, and thus should be compared to Ultima's Can-Am, which weighs something like 50-100 kg less than the 990-kg GTR? Thus, it is measurably worse than Can-Am's power:weight. Hmmm, boomer, you've given us this car with worse power:weight than Ultima's Gtr and much-worse power:weight than Ultima's Can-Am, and you gave us the other car (the T1) which achieves better power:weight merely by being more track-only oriented (I say that because a track-only Ultima with an LSx Chevy and no luggage bins, no extra seat, possibly no AirCon, etc., should match the T1's power:weight). Slight advantage to Ultima's ability not to be "redundant," but I won't even give any "points" to Ultima for this power:weight issue.
So far, they're even (because the Ultima would pass on high-speed straights, then be passed in the corners; so, really, whether an Ultima wins the race against either car you proposed to make Ultimas "obslete" would depend on whether it's a high-speed or slow-speed circuit -- and the particular Ultima, since most are custom built to the owner's specs). Now consider that Ultima costs half as much as the T1 -- even if a 1000-bhp LSx engine and a sequential tranny are used -- and bebi.se doesn't bother advertising their price, and the conclusion is no, they will not turn Ultima obsolete. (and with the Quercianella's sequential tranny and CF + Mg parts, I think we all know it costs at LEAST $200k but feel free to prove me wrong. (-; Their own website says they want to compete with cars selling for 300k GBP "for half the price" though, which is about $250k. (-: )
Ultima can use cheap huge American horsepower instead of a chassis made of unobtanium to match these cars' power:weight, and this explains how *every other issue above* besides the power:weight issue comes about:
- Ultima's higher top-speed (light weight doesn't help top-speed, but more HP does),
- Ultima's worse cornering grip (since tires only as wide as 335mm are commonly available, the non-Ultimas have more choices), and
- Ultima's lower cost (Chevy HP is cheap; CF or Mg are not).
American-powered midengine kit cars (or even Cobra replicas) are more likely to compete with Ultimas or make them "obsolete" than either of the models you've propose since they compete more on-par with the Ultima zeitgeist (i.e. very few fancy chassis materials, low prices -- and semi-low weights but not as lightweight as the T1 or Querci's exotic materials, and way, way more HP than the T1 or Querci to make up for the heavier weight).
You just won't see the T1 or Querci in the same racing class as any Ultima given the huge weight and HP differences (and e.g., one would blow by the other in the corners and then get passed on the straights; when was the last time you've seen such disparate cars that can pass each other in those different ways placed into the same class in professional racing??), which is a good indicator that you are still comparing apples to oranges.
>> Edited by jeff-texas on Thursday 9th March 12:48
I can't help but be impressed by the arrival of these new cars. The innovation is wonderful.
But, (in my opinion of course), they are making a mistake if they do not provide the car as a kit (same comment true for Freestream). I think Ultima has it spot on - the market splits between people who want to build their own car and those who want to own a pre-assembled branded product that simply takes cash to buy.
No one will buy a Freestream simply for bragging rights (the name sounds like a medicine for a urinary tract infection), or a Quercianella (sounds like a new type of genetically engineered citrus fruit). There is no brand equity in any of these names. They have no cocktail party currency. Just like the Ultima.
But if they offer them as kits, then they will appeal to all of us grass roots enthusiasts who want to be a part of building these cars ourselves, and to go beyond what it simply means to buy an expensive car with cash.
That's my 'umble opinion.
But, (in my opinion of course), they are making a mistake if they do not provide the car as a kit (same comment true for Freestream). I think Ultima has it spot on - the market splits between people who want to build their own car and those who want to own a pre-assembled branded product that simply takes cash to buy.
No one will buy a Freestream simply for bragging rights (the name sounds like a medicine for a urinary tract infection), or a Quercianella (sounds like a new type of genetically engineered citrus fruit). There is no brand equity in any of these names. They have no cocktail party currency. Just like the Ultima.
But if they offer them as kits, then they will appeal to all of us grass roots enthusiasts who want to be a part of building these cars ourselves, and to go beyond what it simply means to buy an expensive car with cash.
That's my 'umble opinion.
Just found a car ready and looks like the freestream F1...looks like they used the idea?
Its only a lot heavier I found out...its 1175kg? and uses a 450ps bmw V8 M5 engine and its from new zeeland?
www.supercarsnz.com/index.html
this one is called the Hulme F1 and cost 400.000,- or 500.000,-$ quess New Zee? $
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Tuesday 4th April 01:18
Its only a lot heavier I found out...its 1175kg? and uses a 450ps bmw V8 M5 engine and its from new zeeland?
www.supercarsnz.com/index.html
this one is called the Hulme F1 and cost 400.000,- or 500.000,-$ quess New Zee? $
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Tuesday 4th April 01:18
world takes all sorts..... personelly I'd rather have a turbocharged bike engined Locost for those mental moments, a canam for those event/meets & regular summer long trips and change in my pocket for a little place in france to drive to in the canam, rather than a freestream.
>> Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 4th April 22:05
>> Edited by andygtt on Tuesday 4th April 22:05
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