Discussion
Hi Guys - New Ultima on the block (well! - in 12-18months time actually!)
Heck - I hate computers - just put all my thoughts into this thread, and would you believe it ???
....It all disappeared! So here I go again! Don't you hate doing things twice? Arrrgh!
Right - Firstly CJ - Thanks a million for sharing your experiences via your web-diary - very very useful!
Have just ordered (October)Stage 1-6 from Ted, which should be arriving in January, so a bit to wait yet, however I thought I would touch base with all you Guys out there who have done it, or are doin' it, as I recon I will need all the help I can get!
Originally my idea was to look at using a Merc AMG engine..However Ted kind of put me off with the thought of all that rejigging of the mounts and then finding a box/ Clutch/Adaptor plate to fit.
So... I know most are saying stick to American speed, but which one? I want the finished result to be useable on the road with some reliability (hopefully), but with performance as extreme as I can get for Track days. CJ I believe used a 600bhp version (with Supercharger) and I wondered if all and done, it was perhaps a bit too extreme? Especially as I believe CJ has gone fore a less endowed version for the Can-Am.
All thoughts would be very gratefully appreciated...
Thanks
Heck - I hate computers - just put all my thoughts into this thread, and would you believe it ???
....It all disappeared! So here I go again! Don't you hate doing things twice? Arrrgh!
Right - Firstly CJ - Thanks a million for sharing your experiences via your web-diary - very very useful!
Have just ordered (October)Stage 1-6 from Ted, which should be arriving in January, so a bit to wait yet, however I thought I would touch base with all you Guys out there who have done it, or are doin' it, as I recon I will need all the help I can get!
Originally my idea was to look at using a Merc AMG engine..However Ted kind of put me off with the thought of all that rejigging of the mounts and then finding a box/ Clutch/Adaptor plate to fit.
So... I know most are saying stick to American speed, but which one? I want the finished result to be useable on the road with some reliability (hopefully), but with performance as extreme as I can get for Track days. CJ I believe used a 600bhp version (with Supercharger) and I wondered if all and done, it was perhaps a bit too extreme? Especially as I believe CJ has gone fore a less endowed version for the Can-Am.
All thoughts would be very gratefully appreciated...
Thanks
Keith
Welcome to the forum and Ultima ownership.
First, if I'm going to say a bit then I type it all in Word first so I can mess with it and do a spell check then copy and paste into the forum. I've been caught on that one as well.
Ask all the questions you like. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
I built my own engine but if I were to buy one now I would go with the 377ci 640hp AS as used in the current demonstrator. I thing the formula is right with the lower capacity and higher revs.
Enjoy your build.
Steve
Welcome to the forum and Ultima ownership.
First, if I'm going to say a bit then I type it all in Word first so I can mess with it and do a spell check then copy and paste into the forum. I've been caught on that one as well.
Ask all the questions you like. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
I built my own engine but if I were to buy one now I would go with the 377ci 640hp AS as used in the current demonstrator. I thing the formula is right with the lower capacity and higher revs.
Enjoy your build.
Steve
take a look at the thread about the ProCharger! get one of the cheaper engines from AS, or build your own then bolt on of these things on to make some big numbers on the cheap (if only it was that easy). and you can retain the carb (with some mods)!!!
thanks Chris.
PS. might be worth your while scanning through all the threads on engiens option to see what people have done and what they are looking into!
thanks Chris.
PS. might be worth your while scanning through all the threads on engiens option to see what people have done and what they are looking into!
One thought -
Has anyone tried to fit a v10 or v12 such as the BMW plant?
I saw an article a while ago when someone was putting this beast into a lambo-look-alike.
Also the original idea as I said was to go with an AMG engine primarily as it is virtually bullet-proof and comes with Fuel Injection thus better performance vs fuel economy.
However if it is not cost effective/fraught with problems, maybe I stick to the Chevvy otion.
- On another subject, has anyone thought about using stainless steel panels for the floor etc? It would certainly look nicer, and maybe more long-lasting, and I wonder about the potential for electrolysis between the ally panels supplied and rivetted to the steel frame. Would this accentuate drumming?
- any comments?
cheers Keith
Has anyone tried to fit a v10 or v12 such as the BMW plant?
I saw an article a while ago when someone was putting this beast into a lambo-look-alike.
Also the original idea as I said was to go with an AMG engine primarily as it is virtually bullet-proof and comes with Fuel Injection thus better performance vs fuel economy.
However if it is not cost effective/fraught with problems, maybe I stick to the Chevvy otion.
- On another subject, has anyone thought about using stainless steel panels for the floor etc? It would certainly look nicer, and maybe more long-lasting, and I wonder about the potential for electrolysis between the ally panels supplied and rivetted to the steel frame. Would this accentuate drumming?
- any comments? cheers Keith
First - glad you've found the sites useful Keith - Make sure you mention to Ted & Richard that they were instrumental in you making your decision (private joke)! 
Second, engines. What it comes down to is purely personal choice. There's no 'right' answer? A highly tuned, high power engine (like the .377 in the GTR640) is great - but will need more regular attention than a sedate .350 and will be more costly to buy and run. Supercharged installations give cheap power, but heat management can be an issue (just don't lag any pipes - 2nd private joke :hehe )
Depends on what you're prepared to put up with really? If you genuinely want a track biaised car, keep weight down and power up, but if you want something that's still faster than 99% of cars on the road and doesn't mind plodding around in town, then maybe something a bit less frisky is the way to go?
As I said, no 'right' answer. Just a question of being 'fit for purpose'.
Cheers
CJ
- Make sure you mention to Ted & Richard that they were instrumental in you making your decision (private joke)! Second, engines. What it comes down to is purely personal choice. There's no 'right' answer? A highly tuned, high power engine (like the .377 in the GTR640) is great - but will need more regular attention than a sedate .350 and will be more costly to buy and run. Supercharged installations give cheap power, but heat management can be an issue (just don't lag any pipes - 2nd private joke :hehe )
Depends on what you're prepared to put up with really? If you genuinely want a track biaised car, keep weight down and power up, but if you want something that's still faster than 99% of cars on the road and doesn't mind plodding around in town, then maybe something a bit less frisky is the way to go?
As I said, no 'right' answer. Just a question of being 'fit for purpose'.
Cheers
CJ
Stick with the Chevy block..
A naturally aspirated 383 is basically gobs of cheap torque - it uses a 350 block of which there are gazillions around (cheap) and uses a replacement 400 type crank to up cubes via the extended stroke. As the long stroke is comparatively less suitable for a high rev engine, it's often not designed to spin that much faster than stock. Cams tend to be 'fast road' types that are not too lumpy and work reasonably well in a typical street app.
The 377s use the 400 block. ie more expensive as there are far less of them. It uses the same stroke as a standard 350 and thus enables higher revs than the 383... and thereby higher HP. However to use the higher rev ability it requires wilder cams and a host of other mods making it slightly less forgiving as a street tool and significantly more expensive to build. Run 18 degree heads to get it breathing well.
Supercharging works and can be a relatively cheap way of getting even more 'go' …esp if you can find one secondhand and provided you stick to lower boosts, enabling reuse of existing carbs (with bigger jets) and possibly obviating the need to intercool (though always recommended). Higher boosts can be done but it requires significantly more money and time to create a setup that will reliably hold together. Turbocharging with higher boosts should work well for a high revving 377 but is even more complex to design well given the heat and fuel management. However, get it sorted and I suspect there wont be much to equal... or much left in your pocket.
I'd rate as the following…
1. Cheap and fast = 383
2. Biggest bang for the money = Supercharged 383
3. Fastest thing on the track = Turbocharged 377.
A naturally aspirated 383 is basically gobs of cheap torque - it uses a 350 block of which there are gazillions around (cheap) and uses a replacement 400 type crank to up cubes via the extended stroke. As the long stroke is comparatively less suitable for a high rev engine, it's often not designed to spin that much faster than stock. Cams tend to be 'fast road' types that are not too lumpy and work reasonably well in a typical street app.
The 377s use the 400 block. ie more expensive as there are far less of them. It uses the same stroke as a standard 350 and thus enables higher revs than the 383... and thereby higher HP. However to use the higher rev ability it requires wilder cams and a host of other mods making it slightly less forgiving as a street tool and significantly more expensive to build. Run 18 degree heads to get it breathing well.
Supercharging works and can be a relatively cheap way of getting even more 'go' …esp if you can find one secondhand and provided you stick to lower boosts, enabling reuse of existing carbs (with bigger jets) and possibly obviating the need to intercool (though always recommended). Higher boosts can be done but it requires significantly more money and time to create a setup that will reliably hold together. Turbocharging with higher boosts should work well for a high revving 377 but is even more complex to design well given the heat and fuel management. However, get it sorted and I suspect there wont be much to equal... or much left in your pocket.
I'd rate as the following…
1. Cheap and fast = 383
2. Biggest bang for the money = Supercharged 383
3. Fastest thing on the track = Turbocharged 377.
Keith,
Just to add to the fun the one I'm finishing (mostly someone else's toil) has turbocharged Audi V8 - all alluminium modern engine.
So there are choices !
Good luck with your build, I've only been around for a short time but the contributions from the folks on the forum has been excellent - many thanks to all those who give of their time and knowledge...
Cheers,
Chris
Just to add to the fun the one I'm finishing (mostly someone else's toil) has turbocharged Audi V8 - all alluminium modern engine.
So there are choices !
Good luck with your build, I've only been around for a short time but the contributions from the folks on the forum has been excellent - many thanks to all those who give of their time and knowledge...
Cheers,
Chris
If you fit anything but a Chevy you will be into some quite serious engineering to get it to work, engine mounts, adapter, clutch, starter etc.etc...
Not saying its not possible as it been done, however don't underestimate the extra work involved.
If your unphased by doing your own thing then I'd go for the BMW V12 (mines going to be twin turbo'd) or the Audi V8 or even the Lexus V8.... I think the AMG V12 will be too long.
If you decide to go the proven chevy route, having had a revy 383 myself I'd personnely go for the 377 and plenty of revs for power (like Gmans) especially if its ultimate performance your after.
Not saying its not possible as it been done, however don't underestimate the extra work involved.
If your unphased by doing your own thing then I'd go for the BMW V12 (mines going to be twin turbo'd) or the Audi V8 or even the Lexus V8.... I think the AMG V12 will be too long.
If you decide to go the proven chevy route, having had a revy 383 myself I'd personnely go for the 377 and plenty of revs for power (like Gmans) especially if its ultimate performance your after.
OK -
A small fly in the ointment of life!
- Am I right in understanding that if I put say an LS# block based engine into the car, then it will need cats to pass the DOT test?
I heard that some of you deliberately choose the older iron block (pre....19??) that used a loop-hole that says you don't need cats? What are the cost/performance implications?
Is this a problem?
A small fly in the ointment of life!
- Am I right in understanding that if I put say an LS# block based engine into the car, then it will need cats to pass the DOT test?
I heard that some of you deliberately choose the older iron block (pre....19??) that used a loop-hole that says you don't need cats? What are the cost/performance implications?
Is this a problem?
brdee said:
One thought -
Has anyone tried to fit a v10 or v12 such as the BMW plant?
I saw an article a while ago when someone was putting this beast into a lambo-look-alike.
Also the original idea as I said was to go with an AMG engine primarily as it is virtually bullet-proof and comes with Fuel Injection thus better performance vs fuel economy.
However if it is not cost effective/fraught with problems, maybe I stick to the Chevvy otion.
cheers Keith
Keith,
I know of a BMW V12. Check out www.ultimav12.ca/
If you want everyday reliability and a pretty powerful engine, I would second the GM LS engines. There are LS1's in cars now and a few LS7's that are in the build process. You may need cats and I saw a car with them in the exhaust set-up. A little more complicated but still worked.
If you like the AMG, I say do some research and take some measurements, and see if you can get that thing to fit. Would be a cool alternative. There are Ultimas with all kinds of different engines out there. Just depends on your engineering ability and budget.
Best of luck.
Hugger Z said:
I know of a BMW V12. Check out www.ultimav12.ca/
I love that car, sounds yum too. Good color.
Here an older Ultima with BMW V12 in it for sale on ebay in the UK
http://cgi.ebay.nl/Ultima-V12-RacerThe-ultimate-Road
and yes, the sound of that V12 in the GTR is super, and that movie also, it almost jumps into warp speed
René
http://cgi.ebay.nl/Ultima-V12-RacerThe-ultimate-Road
and yes, the sound of that V12 in the GTR is super, and that movie also, it almost jumps into warp speed
René
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