Total Novice Questions - Porsche Racing

Total Novice Questions - Porsche Racing

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bqf

Original Poster:

2,266 posts

178 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
This is quite a wide-ranging post, with a stack of questions that may have been asked a million times, so apologies in advance!

Being a track day/fast car/occasional karting enthusiast, I am keen to start racing next year. I have taken the first step by booking in my ARDS test for next month (!), and so I am literally at ground zero.

I am looking at buying (prepping?) a Porsche and there is such a big choice of cars, preparers, championships I feel a bit overwhelmed. So, here are some questions, that I hope you can help with:

1. The Car. Budget is an issue, as I don't have deep pockets. I fancy the Boxster but suspect that a 944/968 would be cheaper to run - am I right? Is it important to future proof my race-car (i.e. is buying a Boxster likely to give longer service than a 944?). What about the 924 - is this worth considering (although I suspect I'd be limited to the series I could enter with a 924?)

2. Buying vs Prepping. Should I buy a ready-prepped car? Or buy a donor car and have it prepped? I am useless with spanners so I would need to have it totally prepared for me - are there folks who could do this (I am based in West Kent - is there anyone nearby?). Is it cheaper to buy a prepared car though? Are there disadvantages to this?

3. Race-day support. As I said, I am useless with spanners - how much do I have to pay for race-day support (is it per race, or season?). Or could I just get some trainee race mechanic looking for work experience to help?

4. Championship/series - I have had a look around on the web, and there are a few for Porsche. Any particular recommendations for specific race series? and Why?

Any help at all would be appreciated - being a total rookie I am a bit confused by the scale of the challenge!! I looked at the Ctaerham Academy, as it's a total 'soup to nuts' package, but it's £25,000, and I don't particularly like Caterhams!

Cheers




Matt2101

193 posts

230 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
Have a chat to Sean at Track Focused... http://www.trackfocused.co.uk

I've made him aware of this thread so hopefully he'll be along in a bit to contribute.
There are quite a few people on here who are involved in the Boxsters/924s so I am sure you wont be short of advice.

Having driven one a few times, I can tell you that you wont be short of fun in a Boxster!

Cheers,
Matt

Edited by Matt2101 on Monday 28th February 13:42

andy97

4,737 posts

229 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
I'm not a Porsche racer, although I am a former 944 owner & currently race in CSCC Tin Tops. My view, for what its worth, is that is ALWAYS cheaper & quicker to get on th grid to buy a ready prepared car rather than trying to build & sort your own.

If budget is an issue the you could do far worse than look at the BRSCC Porsche championship - a ready prepared car can be had for circa £3-3.5K & the racing is close and spares still readily available. The cars handle well, to. Just get used to the racing first & then look at moving up to a Boxster (if that is your thing)later. The Boxsters will be cheaper in a year or two anyway, as more come on to the grid & some get sold second hand. Remember that buying the car is the easy bit, so if budget really is an issue it makes sense not to go overboard on an expensive car in the first pace. That said, I understand that Boxster spares prices are actually cheaper than for a 944 but I'm no expert.

I think that entry fees for the Porsche Club series might be consiered a bit steep if you really are on a budget.

Most of the Porsche racing options (924, 944/968, 911) are also eligible for one of the CSCC's 40 minute race series for one or two drivers (with a compulsory pit stop so you can share the costs with a mate!). These are really good value for money series with good track time for your £ and a relaxed, novice friendly experience. PM me if you want more details but a 924, 944 & 911 upto 964 are eligible for the "Future Classics" series (indeed a 944 was the "car to have" last year) whilst a 968, Boxster or later 911 (993 onwards) are eligible for the new for 2011 "Deutsche Marque" series for german cars. CSCC also has a one hour race at Spa every year & the 924 would be eligible for the invite we get every year to race in a 300Km race at the Nurburgring.

It makes sense to buy a car that is eligible for more than one series & you can do a few races in each series depending on the calendar & your location. Also, uch ars are easier to sell on.

You don't actully mention your budget! If it is very low then buy a 924 & run it in a mix of BRSCC & CSCC Class G Future Classics races; if its a medium budget such that you can afford to buy a 944 S2 then run that in CSCC Future Classics & if its a "good" budget then buy a Boxster & run it in a mixture of BRSCC Porsche races & CSCC Deutsche Marques!

Finally, if you buy a 924 or a 944 (or pre 1990 911) then it would also be eligible for he 360MRC's 6 hour race at Snetterton on 30 April.

If you hve any questions about CSCC stuff, hen I'm very happy to help. We have several 924/944 race with us.

bqf

Original Poster:

2,266 posts

178 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
andy97 said:
I'm not a Porsche racer, although I am a former 944 owner & currently race in CSCC Tin Tops. My view, for what its worth, is that is ALWAYS cheaper & quicker to get on th grid to buy a ready prepared car rather than trying to build & sort your own.

If budget is an issue the you could do far worse than look at the BRSCC Porsche championship - a ready prepared car can be had for circa £3-3.5K & the racing is close and spares still readily available. The cars handle well, to. Just get used to the racing first & then look at moving up to a Boxster (if that is your thing)later. The Boxsters will be cheaper in a year or two anyway, as more come on to the grid & some get sold second hand. Remember that buying the car is the easy bit, so if budget really is an issue it makes sense not to go overboard on an expensive car in the first pace. That said, I understand that Boxster spares prices are actually cheaper than for a 944 but I'm no expert.

I think that entry fees for the Porsche Club series might be consiered a bit steep if you really are on a budget.

Most of the Porsche racing options (924, 944/968, 911) are also eligible for one of the CSCC's 40 minute race series for one or two drivers (with a compulsory pit stop so you can share the costs with a mate!). These are really good value for money series with good track time for your £ and a relaxed, novice friendly experience. PM me if you want more details but a 924, 944 & 911 upto 964 are eligible for the "Future Classics" series (indeed a 944 was the "car to have" last year) whilst a 968, Boxster or later 911 (993 onwards) are eligible for the new for 2011 "Deutsche Marque" series for german cars. CSCC also has a one hour race at Spa every year & the 924 would be eligible for the invite we get every year to race in a 300Km race at the Nurburgring.

It makes sense to buy a car that is eligible for more than one series & you can do a few races in each series depending on the calendar & your location. Also, uch ars are easier to sell on.

You don't actully mention your budget! If it is very low then buy a 924 & run it in a mix of BRSCC & CSCC Class G Future Classics races; if its a medium budget such that you can afford to buy a 944 S2 then run that in CSCC Future Classics & if its a "good" budget then buy a Boxster & run it in a mixture of BRSCC Porsche races & CSCC Deutsche Marques!

Finally, if you buy a 924 or a 944 (or pre 1990 911) then it would also be eligible for he 360MRC's 6 hour race at Snetterton on 30 April.

If you hve any questions about CSCC stuff, hen I'm very happy to help. We have several 924/944 race with us.
V helpful, thanks - budget wise, up to £10k ish for the car, and no more than £10k a year would be ideal....I guess I'm in 924/944 territory.

andy97

4,737 posts

229 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
There are a few 944s for sale in the classified section of PH but tend to be £10-12K.

924s are about £3-4K.

I don't know about running costs for a 924/944, I'm afraid.

snailpace85

27 posts

181 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
Andy's advice always sound. I'd add that the numbers you're talking are significantly more than those for people on really really tight budgets. One thing that you could do is look up where and when your candidate championships are running and go and wander around the paddock talking to the competitors. That soon tells you loads about the series concerned. Someone is bound to point you to the series coordinator who'll be about the paddock somewhere and they'll point you to cars available, general advice, who's running cars for paying customers etc.

Scott

Maldini35

2,913 posts

195 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
All good advice so far.

Forget Boxsters too expensive to buy and too expensive to run on your budget.

Does it have to be a Porsche?

The only reason I ask is that once you start racing you really won't care too much what car you're in if it's a close and competitive championship (that's why karting is so much fun).

If you want some rear drive action it might be worth taking a look at the MX5 and Production BMW Championships.
Both are well run with great racing, cheap cars and being one-make championships (everybody drives the same car) plenty of help in the paddock if you're not so good with the spanners.

You don't want to buy a beautifully prepped 968 / 944 and then find out you can't afford to fix it if you hit the scenery or somebody hits you. In your first season it really is a good idea to race a car with cheap and plentiful parts supply so the 924 might be a good bet if your heart is set on a Porker.
Consider the price of all the consumables. For example, £120 a tyre may not sound like much but at nearly £500 a set it can certainly start to mount up over year.

It may be a predictable recommendation but I really would go along to a couple of race meetings and stroll through the paddock. You'll find plenty of people happy to offer advice.



Count Johnny

715 posts

204 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
FYIW

1. Unfortunately, you’ll need deep(ish) pockets and future proofing a race-car can be a bit irrelevant if you’ve just launched at the scenery. I’ve heard tell of folk who buy a car, race the nuts off it, and sell it without making a real world loss…but I’ve never met one. smile

2. Buy a ready prepped car, but be sure to get the right one or you will have bought yourself an expensive world of trouble, disappointment and heartache. Personally, if was sensible (which I’m not smile) I’d actually spend the coming season kicking around whatever championship you’ve decided to do, speaking to the drivers, and getting a feel for the right car to buy. If your ‘useless with spanners’ is it reasonable to presume that you’re unlikely to spot a dog? It’s easily done and race cars don’t usually come with warranties.

3.Expect to pay ~ £300 per person, per day, for track support, plus fuel and expenses. On the basis of your being ‘useless with spanners’ – and unlikely to be unable to give advice or instructions - it probably wouldn’t helpful to have a ‘weekend warrior’ as a mechanic (unless you happen to luck upon someone who can work independantly, knows what he/she is doing; also knows about (in your case) Porkers) and has his own tools, etc).

I usually budget for (but sometimes exceed, sometimes don’t) ~ £350 to spanner the car between outings (excluding consumables). Obviously, this doesn’t include for any damage, breakages etc.

Other Items?

Oft repeated on here, but don’t forget racing kit; trailer; tyres; fuel (racing); fuel (getting there); registration fees; entry fees; staying there (if you don’t have a motorhome/caravan/tent/comfortable back seat to your car, or are determined to drive to Anglesey, do qually and two races, and drive back home again smile) and a contingency for accident damage/minor and major failures etc etc.

C 'J' S

NJH

3,021 posts

216 months

Monday 28th February 2011
quotequote all
Nothing much to add to what CJ has said except the point that anyone who can do a basic service on their car and change brake pads etc. probably has enough capability to do the basics required. Pretty much settled on the idea myself that I will do the basics and get the car into the garage (EMC in Birmingham) in between outings.

Certainly if the OP is interested in racing a 944 or 968 give Kev or Alex a ring at EMC 0121 3282225

Porsche Racer

24 posts

180 months

Monday 28th February 2011
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924 is your best option if you are on a budget and I can assure you that its a great place to start. I have been competing for 3-years now and looking forward to my 4th year. Racing is close and fair and the club is run by drivers for the drivers.

There are some cars available for sale and rent.

Best thing to do is get in touch with the 924 drivers rep. His contact details are available via our website; www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk



bqf

Original Poster:

2,266 posts

178 months

Tuesday 1st March 2011
quotequote all
Excellent - all good advice there, so thanks.

I'll get round some of the races this year I think - realistically I think the 924 championship is likely to suit budget and aspirations best.

Although I said 'useless with spanners' I can change 'service' items relatively easily I guess - but having some support would be useful.....
Thanks

migliacars

63 posts

186 months

Tuesday 1st March 2011
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use this number on ebay

seems cheap and will be much quicker than a 924/944

tem number: 200581070770

norwichphoto

1,095 posts

231 months

Wednesday 2nd March 2011
quotequote all
Buying a car that has been well prepared and raced recently is always cheaper than buying and prepping. Its generally quite easy to check results online for the past 3 or 4 seasons - good pace not necessarily important, but instead I'd look for a car that had a good finishing record which would indicate reliability, and to start with you want reliability rather than ultimate pace - the latter will come with time.

Something like the 924 series, or the BMW series mentioned, or any series whose regulations don't change that much a car would be fairly future proof and if you choose to change series a well maintained car will find a new home easily enough.

Additionally, its very good to learn to do a bit of basic spannering. It will save you money, and if something goes wrong at the circuit, you and some friends or even people you race against can help you get going. No-one in club racing likes to see a fellow competitor loose out on a race if they can lend a something that can be replaced later.

1

2,732 posts

243 months

Sunday 6th March 2011
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
All good advice so far.

Forget Boxsters too expensive to buy and too expensive to run on your budget.

Does it have to be a Porsche?

The only reason I ask is that once you start racing you really won't care too much what car you're in if it's a close and competitive championship (that's why karting is so much fun).

If you want some rear drive action it might be worth taking a look at the MX5 and Production BMW Championships.
Both are well run with great racing, cheap cars and being one-make championships (everybody drives the same car) plenty of help in the paddock if you're not so good with the spanners.

You don't want to buy a beautifully prepped 968 / 944 and then find out you can't afford to fix it if you hit the scenery or somebody hits you. In your first season it really is a good idea to race a car with cheap and plentiful parts supply so the 924 might be a good bet if your heart is set on a Porker.
Consider the price of all the consumables. For example, £120 a tyre may not sound like much but at nearly £500 a set it can certainly start to mount up over year.

It may be a predictable recommendation but I really would go along to a couple of race meetings and stroll through the paddock. You'll find plenty of people happy to offer advice.
I agree.

Unless you are set on telling everyone you "race a porsche" there really are better championships out there for that sort of budget. I know lots of people who have moved from 924's to MX5's and PBMW but cant think of any who have gone the other way.

Attend a few meetings, speak to people and see if you can try some cars before you decide.

Nurburgsingh

5,215 posts

245 months

Monday 7th March 2011
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OP

YHM

thegoose

8,075 posts

217 months

Sunday 20th March 2011
quotequote all
There's a lot of decent advice already given but I'd also add that you can rent a well prepared car in order to try a series out without fully committing to purchasing a car.

I'd suggest you get in touch with Ian Gorham of County Classics as they're close to you in Kent. He built a 944S2 for 2009 that went on the win the Porsche Club Championship outright and won most of the rounds it entered last year (different driver).

I've sold my (964) race car as of Friday so will not be contending the Championship this year but having raced 911's since 2005 (and yes, I can confess it has always been very satisying to say "I race a Porsche 911" smile ) I'm curious to try a front engined car and want to rent this particular car for the Oulton Park round (but they'd prefer to have it booked for the whole season, so it may not be available for my one jolly..). There are other teams you could rent a car from and I'm sure the same is true for other series.

I also had a go in the Ma5da MX-5 championship last year and it was fun but didn't really do it for me (I'd be more interested if the races were longer I think).

If you get a few mates to get their licences you could share a car in the Funcup, which are typically 4 hour endurance races - I did this in 2007 and had a great time and I'm hoping to do their 25-hour race at Spa this summer.

Lots to think about I'm sure, you'll find Ian's details on his advert here:
www.porscheclubmotorsport.co.uk

Truckosaurus

12,034 posts

291 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2011
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thegoose said:
...If you get a few mates to get their licences you could share a car in the Funcup, which are typically 4 hour endurance races - I did this in 2007 and had a great time and I'm hoping to do their 25-hour race at Spa this summer....
FunCup is hard to beat for seat-time vs cost, there's also lots of professional standard drivers in the series too and plenty of cars/seats for hire and teams willing and able to run you.

And the Spa 25hrs is a very good event (I've helped out on 2 events and our car was top British finisher last year).

mat205125

17,790 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2011
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If you can't spin your own spanners, buy a car that someone else has already invested time and money into prepping. If you are unfamiler with acronyms, jargon, component brands, and ultimately what you are looking at, enlist the guidence of a more eductated friend / associate (no intention there to be patronising) - There are plenty of great looking cars that are technically deficient and ultimetely uncompetetive. Likewise there are cars out there that have more than their fair share of battle scars, and scrapes, however have had money and time lavished on all of the parts and setups that make them proven reliable race winners ...... Try and go for the latter wherever possible!