Arrive and drive deals...value for money?

[bmwguy]

Almost every race series has teams taking part who offer arrive and drive rent a car deals. I have been looking at some and I'm wondering whether to take the plunge.

Are they good value for money? Do you get what you pay for? Or......do you end up driving a dog of a car which can scarcely make it to the chequered flag, let alone win?

Anyone have any tales to tell of experiences of rent-a-drives? (Good or bad!!)

[RogueMotorsport]

It's easier to ensure that you have a competitive car in a one make series where all cars are built to the same specification. We rent drives in the MR2 Championship and our philosophy is that there's no point hiring a car that can't win the race (or at least it's class depending on the car) so we make sure that all of our cars are competitive.

Here's some footage from one of our mk2 MR2 hire cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4n_hcI3-Y

[JTRacelogic]

I've done a few arrive and drive races, and as with everything there are good guys and bad guys. Speak to people who have used them before to get an idea of how good they are. I have come second in class in a great hire car (one make FunCup series, hired from JPR), so it is possible to get a good one. As for value for money, it is not cheap, it will always be cheaper to buy your own car, race it, and then sell it, providing you don't mangle it in the process! However, it is nice not to have to worry about anything other than the racing, but that comes with a price.

[Matt2101]

We've run cars in the Locost Championship for people for a few years, and had our share of ups and downs.
Its an excellent way of sampling a championship, and also ideal if you dont have the time/knwoledge/inclination to prepare and maintain a car yourself.
You can also get added advantages with running with an established team that you may not get when running a car yourself. For example, in our case we offer full driver coaching to anyone who hires one of our cars, meaning that you are likely to improve as a driver far quicker than if you were simply left to your own devices.
Feel free to PM me if you want a bit more information, or have a look at the site:

- No advertising in the forums Matt. Although - how much for mates rates

Edited by Stig on Wednesday 2nd February 17:32

[bmwguy]

Well, I have run cars myself in the past....and then had to drop out of the sport because I just don't have the time (or the facilities anymore) to devote to making sure the car is in good shape.

I would ideally like to race in a one make series.....have been thinking about a Boxster in Porsche Club racing or maybe the new Mark 3 MX5 in their new Championship...but I don't want to run around at the back in an uncompetitive car. Don't mind if its my driving which is uncompetitive but I have been relatively successful before. Surely, in one model racing, it is even more important to have a well prepped car from a good team, because the differences between winning and losing are so small?

Without naming names, has anyone had any really bad experiences?

[Kickstart]

I echo the previous comment about there being good guys and bad guys - over 20 years ago I rented a FF for a few races and later discovered that it was actually being stored for the owner by the "team" and the owner had no idea that the car had been rented out.

Generally you get exactly what you pay for - if you have the money you could rent a very competitive drive in British GT etc.
In my experience if you want to win you are unlikely to do this in a renta racer as the front runners often spend a fortune making their cars perfect and run on fresh rubber which does not fit the budget of most renta racers. However I have seen drivers get class wins and decent results in renta racers.

Having just paid for the annual engine rebuild and awaiting a bill for new Konis the nice thing about renta drives is that you can budget effectively.

Have fun

[wildman0609]

for teams running rent a drive they will want to be winning. there is no money in it being near the back. if the rent a drive outfit are at the front there will be demand for it and they will make money, if they are at the back they won't be at the top of peoples list for who to use.
I have worked for many teams, most of which run rent a drive and this seems to be the attitude.
last year we ran a complete novice and by the end of the season we were getting class wins, including winning 3 races in a weekend.


some will be better than others, but they all want to win.

[Jerry Can]

bmwguy said:

Well, I have run cars myself in the past....and then had to drop out of the sport because I just don't have the time (or the facilities anymore) to devote to making sure the car is in good shape.

I would ideally like to race in a one make series.....have been thinking about a Boxster in Porsche Club racing or maybe the new Mark 3 MX5 in their new Championship...but I don't want to run around at the back in an uncompetitive car. Don't mind if its my driving which is uncompetitive but I have been relatively successful before. Surely, in one model racing, it is even more important to have a well prepped car from a good team, because the differences between winning and losing are so small?

Without naming names, has anyone had any really bad experiences?

i've looked into this as well, but it appears the going rate is £1250 per event, plus fuel, brakes and entries. I am not actually sure what you are paying for.

I have in the past run my own car (badly) and recently did arrive n drive. The best way I think is to compromise a little and own the car but pay someone else to run it. The reasons for this are that, your events costs are cheaper as you do not have to pay for the use of th car, if you bend you can choose not to fix it, or fix it when your finances allow, you will still own something at the end of the experience. Also you can decide what needs doing, when. Although it pays to listen to the advice of the team. Also if you have a bash toward the end of a championship season and you've no money to fix it, then you and the team will probably come to a cheap compromise as you and they want to win.

If you do go down the arrive n drive route using someone else's car just make sure you agree before hand what things will cost to replace, how often it gets things like new tyres etc. You don't want suprises especially around accident damage.

[roddo]

New shape mx5's available @ £1000 per weekend inc fuel and all mechanical fluids/brakes/tyres etc. Only thing chargeable is damage.........

We must be doing something right as people do come back............

Can supply references if required.

Happy racing
Paul

[Matt2101]

Matt2101 said:

- No advertising in the forums Matt. Although - how much for mates rates

Edited by Stig on Wednesday 2nd February 17:32

I'm sure I'm not the first to try it

Give me a call... I'm sure we can sort something out!

[bmwguy]

Do these prices include race entry? Does it include testing on a friday?. What happens if a drive shaft breaks? Is wear and tear down to the team or is the driver liable?

To be honest....at those prices I can't see how a team makes money. Just to drag a car to the circuit on a trailer costs £100 in fuel. Kent to Anglesey is probably double that.....then £100 quid for fuel for the race car. Testing fees, entry fees, tyres. Rebuild dampers, engine rebuild.....its endless.

Talking myself out of rentadrives here............

[TonyHetherington]

I'm looking at an arrive and drive this year in the Trackday Trophy series (or perhaps somethine else, still considering).

A good rule of thumb that I was given this week was: Once the door closes, assume you're responsible for all damage.

Now, drive shafts and things like that going on a straight they would then probably not charge you, however consider they will and you won't go over budget.

I looked at the cost of a car, trailer, towing, preparing etc. etc and, to be honest, arrive and drive seemed very competitively priced in many series. I assume it's the economy of scale of companys taking more than one car to more than one driver at a race which helps it, but either way - it does seem financially appealing.

[Axle Stand]

You will only get what you pay for with an arrive and drive, If it looks cheap then don't be suprised when extra's start to be added on. For £1000 I fail to see what the person hiring the car gets out of it (apart for a worn out car at the end of the season). As was posted earlier, by the time you take fuel, something for wear and tear on tyres, brakes and other mechanical parts, and then had someone to look after it at the event, there's not much in the pot. Also don't forget the car needs to be prepared before the event, and sorted again afterwards.

[roddo]

We get.....

Cars on the grid, Potential customers that will buy a built car from us etc.

How can we do it for that price? we are going anyway so taking another car isn't a problem, also looking after another (Very reliable) car is not an issue

[bmwguy]

roddo said:

We get.....

Cars on the grid, Potential customers that will buy a built car from us etc.

How can we do it for that price? we are going anyway so taking another car isn't a problem, also looking after another (Very reliable) car is not an issue

So you aren't really running it as a business? What happens (as it inevitably will) that one of your own cars (or are they customer owned cars?) and the hire car need major work between races. Do you have the resources to work on all the cars at the same time? Or...are you just trusting to luck that the hire car will run reliably all weekend and won't need anything beyond topping up with fuel and the tyres checking?

How do you decide who misses out? Will it be the guys who own their own cars or the guy who is paying for the rentadrive?

I'm not criticising. I just don't see how you can make a profit out of rentadrives if you are only charging a grand a meeting and the customer is getting a properly run car with no half measures.

[Daz65]

bmwguy said:

I'm not criticising. I just don't see how you can make a profit out of rentadrives if you are only charging a grand a meeting and the customer is getting a properly run car with no half measures.

Why would you care if he makes a profit or not, as long as the car is capable and not an old nail, profit or the lack of is his business. Remember most of the hire deals do not include entry fees so all of a sudden £1000 for 1 x 20 min qualifying & 2 x 20 min races plus fuel and any damage (even with insurance a potential minimum £750 excess) is not the bargain basement "they can't be making any profit" deal it appears.

Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking as this is clearly an attractive and practical way to go racing (I have done this several times myself) and judging by the varied rent-a-drives available, would suggest that there is a profit to be made in one form or another.

Regards,

Daz65

[Roo]

bmwguy said:

roddo said:

We get.....

Cars on the grid, Potential customers that will buy a built car from us etc.

How can we do it for that price? we are going anyway so taking another car isn't a problem, also looking after another (Very reliable) car is not an issue

So you aren't really running it as a business? What happens (as it inevitably will) that one of your own cars (or are they customer owned cars?) and the hire car need major work between races. Do you have the resources to work on all the cars at the same time? Or...are you just trusting to luck that the hire car will run reliably all weekend and won't need anything beyond topping up with fuel and the tyres checking?

How do you decide who misses out? Will it be the guys who own their own cars or the guy who is paying for the rentadrive?

I'm not criticising. I just don't see how you can make a profit out of rentadrives if you are only charging a grand a meeting and the customer is getting a properly run car with no half measures.

That's why we make sure we have mechanics with the team, as will roddo, along with the usual spares needed. A couple of drivers who are reasonably good with spanners also helps.

With the MX5's a lot of them will help each other out with spare panels as well if possible.

[Matt2101]

bmwguy said:

So you aren't really running it as a business? What happens (as it inevitably will) that one of your own cars (or are they customer owned cars?) and the hire car need major work between races. Do you have the resources to work on all the cars at the same time? Or...are you just trusting to luck that the hire car will run reliably all weekend and won't need anything beyond topping up with fuel and the tyres checking?

How do you decide who misses out? Will it be the guys who own their own cars or the guy who is paying for the rentadrive?

I'm not criticising. I just don't see how you can make a profit out of rentadrives if you are only charging a grand a meeting and the customer is getting a properly run car with no half measures.

For us there is an element of repeat business. We make a small profit off every meeting that is enough to make it worthwhile, but aside from that there are other benefits. We have had drivers who have hired cars from us, then progress to other things, but they still come back to me for coaching.
Also, if our cars are competitive and doing well, people are more inclined to come to us for setup and development work.

And to answer your other question, customer comes first. Always.
We've been on the edge of giving my car up to a paying driver after problems in qualifying before. Only a combination of red-tape from the organisers and some last minute fixing inspiration stopped that from happening.

[TonyHetherington]

I'm doing a lot of sums at the moment, working out value for money on arrive and drive vs just doing track days for the year.

Simply put, the cost per minute of being out on track is 10 times that in a race as it is on a trackday. £2.50 vs £25 (roughly). (this is for rented cars for both trackday and race, the trackday car a Cat 7 Superlight, the race car a 944)

At first glance, that seems very high for the race car, but then when you work out what your own cost would be of buying, maintaining, owning, fueling, mending etc. etc. your own race car, the values don't seem that expensive.

[Matt2101]

Tony,

Don't underestimate the things you can't put a price on as well... I love track days as I love circuit driving in general, but it simply doesn't compare to actual wheel-to-wheel competition!